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Do you have J-dar and is it reliable?

compulsiverambler

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I've long believed I can tell whether most people are Js or Ps just by watching them interact with me or other people a little bit. I can't identify specific kinds of body language I'm picking up on or explain exactly what I'm referring to, so I'm wondering how many agree that you can get an accurate first impression about it. I can't think of any times that I've later decided a first impression about it was wrong, but of course that could be due to confirmation bias.

The best way I can describe it, though remember it's really just a vague feeling I'm retrospectively interpreting, is that Js seem more reserved in a particular way, regardless of how open, expressive, extroverted and engaged they are. It's as if they're conserving some of their energy or continually re-evaluating the situation, giving the sense that some aspect of their immediate reactions is held back or just overshadowed while other processes are going on. I've only really started wondering how accurate this J-dar thing is since realising that some people analyse those they know quite thoroughly to decide, suggesting they don't have it or don't trust it.

What do you think?
 

Max

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Being a J myself, I've got a P-dar. Many people around me are Ps, and they seem to notice the differences in my personality- not so much using typology terms, but just in general. They tell me I'm always very blunt and straightforward and that I could be a little nicer, but I don't see anything wrong with how I do things. Also, it's an automatic expectation that my side of the room is going to be in pristine condition compared to all of theirs. I think I need to clean it up, but when I look at someone else's room, it's 10 times worse.
 
P

Phantonym

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I think I do have both the P- and J-dars and I can't explain what kind of things I pick up from people either. Things just click when I see little clues revealed in front of me, seeing the patterns I can associate with dichotomies. I don't perform a thorough analysis of people. Gut feeling is a big part of the process.

I have no way of knowing how reliable it actually is because I don't make people take the tests very often. It doesn't really seem that important. Although, the times I have introduced the MBTI to people and they've taken the test, I've been correct 100%.
 

rhinosaur

Just a statistic
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No, I don't have J-dar. In fact I'm pretty terrible at telling a person's type until I get to know them well. However I am starting to see patterns, like "this guy is a lot like this other guy whom I think is ESTP," and "this girl has a manner of speaking that is similar to this INTJ I know."
 

FDG

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I have a radar for "whole" types but not for specific characteristics - I find different J types to be too different among each other to be able to pinpoint something.
 

Sarcasticus

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Js are easy to spot. I think their little obsessive-compulsive traits, lists, and schedules are cute.
 

Max

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Another thing I forgot to mention is that my J preference is extremely strong, so I may mistype some people as P or only very modestly J when in fact they are J but just not so much as I am.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I have a radar for "whole" types but not for specific characteristics - I find different J types to be too different among each other to be able to pinpoint something.

This.

Js are easy to spot. I think their little obsessive-compulsive traits, lists, and schedules are cute.

Haha...joke, right?
 

compulsiverambler

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It's really interesting that some people have a gut feeling for people's whole type. I don't put much stock in online type descriptions because the sampling for them sounds to have been a bit flawed, but I do sometimes get the sense of a complete type from someone, mainly if their preferences are all very strong, I think. But knowing J from P in particular seems an interesting thing to get a gut feeling about, because the way these things are measured officially has nothing directly to do with styles of social interaction or body language. Yet, more often than not when I meet someone, after a fairly brief exchange I just can't envision them as planning, organised people, or as laid-back, improvising people, and as I get to know them and their lifestyle I find this impression was right.

I agree that combinations can seem to affect the manifestation of each preference though. In particular, I sometimes have trouble telling male introverted SFs from introverted NTs, especially when one preference is much stronger than the other. But to me, the J and P (in almost everyone other than myself - can't observe myself objectively) seem to leak out as detectable qualities independent of the other traits.
 

Sarcasticus

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Haha...joke, right?

No I really do. The way they come into work and the first thing they do is sharpen their pencils and line them up according to length. . . all that stuff.

And their head-shaking bewilderment and disapproval of my disorderly lifestyle is also amusing. ;)
 

Totenkindly

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The best way I can describe it, though remember it's really just a vague feeling I'm retrospectively interpreting, is that Js seem more reserved in a particular way, regardless of how open, expressive, extroverted and engaged they are.

yeah, that.

I call it "controlled." Even when they are friendly, it is rather practiced and streamline and "correct" -- exactly what they want to do. usually you're not seeing spontaneous energy coming out, it's polished and managed. It's very one-directional: Energy flows out of them into the world, but anything going in is pit into a holding container so it can be examined, categorized, THEN responded to.

P's on the other hand are reacting to the moment by moment flow of the world around them and changing what they do to accommodate it. The flow is cyclical and continual: inside -> outside -> inside -> outside. Information flows in and out of them simultaneously.

Put another way, J behavior tries to control the external world and make it accommodate them, P's allows the external world to impact them in the moment and then respond to it, to build an organic synergy.

It's why most J's often can seem very "put together" even when they're trying to dress down, while P's often seem relaxed even when they're dressed up. Also why J's might seem rehearsed (because, actually, they HAVE been rehearsing to make sure everything's just the way they want it to go), while P is letting the external world help generate the script and responds to new information as it comes.
 

compulsiverambler

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yeah, that.

I call it "controlled." Even when they are friendly, it is rather practiced and streamline and "correct" -- exactly what they want to do. usually you're not seeing spontaneous energy coming out, it's polished and managed. It's very one-directional: Energy flows out of them into the world, but anything going in is pit into a holding container so it can be examined, categorized, THEN responded to.

P's on the other hand are reacting to the moment by moment flow of the world around them and changing what they do to accommodate it. The flow is cyclical and continual: inside -> outside -> inside -> outside. Information flows in and out of them simultaneously.

Put another way, J behavior tries to control the external world and make it accommodate them, P's allows the external world to impact them in the moment and then respond to it, to build an organic synergy.

It's why most J's often can seem very "put together" even when they're trying to dress down, while P's often seem relaxed even when they're dressed up. Also why J's might seem rehearsed (because, actually, they HAVE been rehearsing to make sure everything's just the way they want it to go), while P is letting the external world help generate the script and responds to new information as it comes.
Thank you! I think you're articulating exactly what I mean. I just wish I could think of which specific cues I'm picking up on that give this away. Pronounced pausing and thoughtful looks before speaking would be the most obvious one but I think there must be more.
 

Usehername

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No I really do. The way they come into work and the first thing they do is sharpen their pencils and line them up according to length. . . all that stuff.

And their head-shaking bewilderment and disapproval of my disorderly lifestyle is also amusing. ;)

I think she means that you're narrowing the definition of J. NJs are idea and people structure-oriented, not "thing" structure-oriented like SJs.
 

Totenkindly

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Thank you! I think you're articulating exactly what I mean. I just wish I could think of which specific cues I'm picking up on that give this away. Pronounced pausing and thoughtful looks before speaking would be the most obvious one but I think there must be more.

I'm not sure what the "cues" are either, and plus I'm a holistic person -- I'm attuned to the overall presentation and can't really base the vibe on a particular clue, it's the overall look and feel of the person.

Healthy J's are very good at doing the "right thing" -- where the right thing is either behaving appropriately for the social context (FJ) or taking the right practical steps that are known to accomplish the goal (TJ). They know the "plan" and they follow the "plan" unless something derails it (and then you'll get to see how flexy they are or aren't... but usually they keep trying to get back "on plan"). Sometimes I am left wondering what they REALLY feel (for FJs) or what they really think (for TJs), but they have to have a structure in place to feel comfortable.

P's are much more apt to wing it. They adjust as they go. It's a vibe that says, "hey, I'm open" and "Hmm, what about this?"

I guess the cues are simply how they look (visual), how they talk (is it closure-oriented or speculative?), and whether they accommodate the world or try to structure it.
 

Sarcasticus

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I think she means that you're narrowing the definition of J. NJs are idea and people structure-oriented, not "thing" structure-oriented like SJs.

Huh. My list-making INFJ gf must be an outlier then. ;)
 

FDG

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Mmmbah I don't like these classifications. Too many J people would be easily typed as P, imo. There's some of us that are quite laid back. Js also have their perceiving functions in the ego block, they (we) can appear quite "speculative" when using them. In fact an ENTj using Ni appears more p-ish than an INTp using some heavy detail-oriented Te. It's better to use more holistic approaches.

Anyway, to be my own devil's advocate, I must admit that while I hate lists (because I can remember what I have to do without writing it down), I do have some type of timetable-like plans.
 

compulsiverambler

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I'm not sure what the "cues" are either, and plus I'm a holistic person -- I'm attuned to the overall presentation and can't really base the vibe on a particular clue, it's the overall look and feel of the person.

Healthy J's are very good at doing the "right thing" -- where the right thing is either behaving appropriately for the social context (FJ) or taking the right practical steps that are known to accomplish the goal (TJ). They know the "plan" and they follow the "plan" unless something derails it (and then you'll get to see how flexy they are or aren't... but usually they keep trying to get back "on plan"). Sometimes I am left wondering what they REALLY feel (for FJs) or what they really think (for TJs), but they have to have a structure in place to feel comfortable.

P's are much more apt to wing it. They adjust as they go. It's a vibe that says, "hey, I'm open" and "Hmm, what about this?"

I guess the cues are simply how they look (visual), how they talk (is it closure-oriented or speculative?), and whether they accommodate the world or try to structure it.
Agreed. I think physical presentation is one indicator. I think Js' choice of clothing and hairstyle tends to be more formal and tidy, with more symmetry. I wonder if you'd find particular speech tonal patterns as well, because some people sound more closure-oriented, whatever they're saying.
 

compulsiverambler

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Mmmbah I don't like these classifications. Too many J people would be easily typed as P, imo. There's some of us that are quite laid back. Js also have their perceiving functions in the ego block, they (we) can appear quite "speculative" when using them. In fact an ENTj using Ni appears more p-ish than an INTp using some heavy detail-oriented Te. It's better to use more holistic approaches.
Possibly, but many people strike me as both speculative and J-ish, or both laid back in at least one sense and J-ish. This air of preparedness and structure we're talking about can co-exist happily with those traits I think.
 

FDG

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Possibly, but many people strike me as both speculative and J-ish, or both laid back in at least one sense and J-ish. This air of preparedness and structure we're talking about can co-exist happily with those traits I think.

Ok, right, I thought the system was more like a J had to possess all the traits listed.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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As a reply to post somewhat up there.. ^^
Those who portray themselves as ENTP have been the most vocal proponents of P and opponents of J in this forum. Not incidentally, they're the ones to reduce the whole distinction to the silliest levels.

I often portray my lack of understanding by asking silly questions, like, why do people hate it when I fart in an elevator. P people asking why J do the little things they do - now, that's about as clueless and almost as cute.
 
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