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Do You Trust Your Ni?

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Your audience just wants you to know :huh:

If you think that's bad,
think about the person suggesting you and I- and the millions of other self-employed people-
are "out of touch with reality," for merely having the freedom to "do what we want."

What the hell do people think business owners do?
Answer to God, or some unseen force of nature?
No, we answer to ourselves.
And the IRS. :D
 

Lethe

Obsession.
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
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Indeed. For all we know, the situation in the OP could have been that we're on a magical base on the moon, where if word gets out that a person does not trust their intuition, they get ejected into space. :D

However one decides to call the shots in whatever environment he's in--be it through hunches or through rigorous research--he must also take responsibility for his actions.

Definitely.

What if we made an experiment using these same questions and provided several environmental conditions -- mixing the terms around so there will be no clear cut decision. This test will sketch out the rough boundaries (and strength) of the subject's priorities by observing how they would react under different systems. The choices they make additionally unveils the type of consequences they are prepared to endure, including the ones they least favor. The accumulation of an individual's experiences, knowledge and characteristics comes into play at one sitting.

If you think that's bad,
think about the person suggesting you and I- and the millions of other self-employed people-
are "out of touch with reality," for merely having the freedom to "do what we want."

Being out of touch with reality and personal freedom are not necessarily correlated. They are two separate variables that can intensify the other, but they are largely independent. For example, a schizophrenic cannot help themselves from perceiving 'unrealistic' sensations and may have no desire to indulge in self-expression. Yet someone else (ex: revolutionaries) fighting for this freedom can be very well what many deem as 'realistic'. What a person or group defines as reality or freedom aligns within their interpretation of a given system (family, society, world, etc.)

It sounds as if this one idea is imprisoning you more heavily than the millions of other ideas. Perhaps this expresses a core value: to be known and respected for both realism and independence by the outsider.

Do note this is an isolated observation from a few posts and nothing more. Anything can be disproved by new information and the right context.

=========================================================

It's like a dance always, your feelings and intuition tell you things that you must seemingly justify to others in order to execute them. It's a great skill to develop and possess though. Potentially tapping the best of both worlds. Still frustrating sometimes though to have to do this in the first place.

You've described it quite perfectly. Naturally, these situations can test our patience when we least like to be, and it is our responsibility to decide how much effort we are willing to input for the ideal output. Many people exhaust their reserves by viewing these obstacles as a form of oppression. If I took this route, I would have burnt out earlier than I did in my society.

Instead, I take the justifications as a challenge: how many ways can I translate my emotions, thoughts and intuitions? Everywhere I go, I always feel like the perpetual stranger in a foreign country. (And I am comfortable as one - I seldom experience what it is like to be amongst one's familiars.) To travel somewhere and set things your way, you have to speak the language of the locals and learn about their culture.

Or I would end up with this:

Athenian200 said:
I think it sounds like you have an awfully defeatist, negative, and limited attitude towards life. You blithely throw away everything that doesn't seem immediately relevant to real life or your goals, and exalt personal experience to ridiculous heights. You seem to create too many boundaries and stifle contemplation for the sake of pure practicality and pragmatism.

TJs really are missing out on so much in life. Ah, well. Too bad. ;) Hopefully you figure out how to balance your Te/Fi axis eventually... it seems like the pendulum is swinging the opposite way now.

(Side note: As expected. People call me all the above and much more, but defeatist is a new adjective. I find "stubbornly unyielding" or anything of the like better fitting.)

Clearly my perception has no significance in someone else's world, and it is why reformatting (or reframing) my approach becomes ever more crucial. I understand that my logic and vision appeals only to myself, especially since my perceiving function is Ni. Intuition is inherently subjective for we manipulate the incoming data, and the introversion adds another personal touch. If I want to reach someone who prefers a greater objective interpretation (i.e - Se/Si), speaking in my jibberish language will not deliver the best results. Sure, I can show them my untouched thoughts. Yet would it mean anything to them? Would they comprehend it in a way that I'd like them to?

Probably no. At least not immediately.

The writings I posted in this thread was purely aimed for efficiency to amplify the other factors such as product quality and (employee) talents. So let's say I was working on a team with people from diverse areas of interest: diplomacy, innovation, interpersonal connections, group dominance, etc. To direct this situation, I would need to estimate each individual's motivations, limits, skill level and dedication. But this is typically not perceptible, and it is precisely here where I could maximize the my intuitive abilities. How? Reading the meaning behind their words. Then translate my ideas into another language, and distribute them in a timely fashion. I can get my cake too if I manage to strike the right moment with a mutually favorable deal.

And what if I must do this quickly? I have places to go, responsibilities to uphold, and ideas to muse over.

This requires me to think steps ahead of the person -- I'd imagine the possible scenarios and create various solutions. By the time they've finished their introduction, I've already finished my conclusion. I would fast-foward the process with the ideal selections I've conjured in my mind. Now I'm going to pretend Athenian's one of the team members. The moment she says, "stifle contemplation", I should instantly know which direction she is arriving from: she's assuming there is no room for her inspirations and deducts that pragmatism has consumed my entire personality. A sense of melancholic frustration could be spotted in her tone. From what? Asking the right questions does open the doors to an understanding. I also need to clarify I never left out creativity or contemplation, it was simply not explicitly expressed and defined.

These are the daily dealings I undertake, and instead of hammering people with a "You. Must. Understand. Me!" indignation, I discover it's much easier to be the first person to risk venturing outside their comfort zones to offer a helping hand. Again, once a person's concerns are sedated, the tastiest meat remains. :) You should now have sturdy materials to work with, and as a castle builder, I'd personally start right on that. ;)

When you travel to a new region, in essence, you are shedding a part of yourself (mostly deadweight) to incorporate the new ideals. Sometimes it does frustrate me as you've stated earlier. Or it even deeply angers me. Other times, I have no idea how the natives' language(s) operate(s) and I lack the techniques or skills to explain myself in a non-offensive manner. I'm standing there perplexed, alone, lost... again..., comforted merely by my intuition to sense the way out. Ah, intuition. The function that makes something out of nothing.

In the end, I'd like to believe I care significantly more about progressing as an individual through these challenging experiences to stop at the sensation of pain.

So I'm ready to take the first move.

Just give the signal.
 

01011010

New member
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Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
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Bad news in what way?

I'd go with my instinct, but I'd try to figure out why first if there's time to do so.
 

bcvcdc

Permabanned
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Jul 11, 2009
Messages
215
MBTI Type
INTx
if i trusted ni i'm sure i really would look very very insane to others. thus, i don't allow myself to put a lot of trust into it.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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No, we answer to ourselves.
And the IRS. :D

But you don't only answer to yourself. Even if you are self-employed. Any of the people you have ever hired or interviewed to hire could file a lawsuit against you for your hiring practices. It's why you should keep your paperwork around.

I am not trying to be problematic here. I really do understand you only wanted to explore your hypothetical question - I simply found it fascinating that no one had explored the real-world application of it in thread when I replied.
 

Jaguar

Active member
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May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
The police are coming to arrest everyone in this thread for using Introverted Intuition. :D

011police_brutality2.jpg
 

Lethe

Obsession.
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The police are coming to arrest everyone in this thread for using Introverted Intuition. :D

If you're using Ni in a clandestine method or the designated areas, then the police won't notice. :whistling: ;)

Personally, I'm not the one to wave the 'Arrest Me' flag conspicuously.

Or a wear 'Rob Me' sign:
28_-_Sphinx_and_Pyramid.jpg


Gee, ever wonder why pyramids attracted tomb robbers in flocks?

People can have their lavish burials, but need they tell everyone where it is?
 

Grace

New member
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Aug 13, 2009
Messages
426
MBTI Type
INTJ
My Ni (and Ne), according to the CognitiveProcesses.com test is also very low. Yes, I would do the same thing. If it turned out wrong, I'll be able to justify it so I won't feel too bad (and I'll have my backside covered).


How do you take taht test? Do you have to pay?
 

Kristiana

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Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
326
MBTI Type
INTJ
1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
Yes, although I would look into it more (ie do a second interview with the seemingly perfect but shady person). I've been right about this sort of thing too many times to ignore it.

2. Which one would you hire?
If I had to hire one of them and not keep the position open, I would hire the average one.

3. How certain are you of your decision?
Pretty certain. If someone makes me uncomfortable, it's almost always for a good reason.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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1) Yes, of course.
2) If it was my own business, I'd hire the candidate I prefer. If I was hiring on account of somebody else, then I would hire who fulfills the best the pre-requisites.
3) 100%, we have evolved through million years to be able to spot stuff like this.
 

Grace

New member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
426
MBTI Type
INTJ
1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
Yes
2. Which one would you hire?
Definitely not the one I had a bad feeling about.
3. How certain are you of your decision?
97%, if I had to give a rough estimate
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,849
To be honest I don't even know how it is like to do things without having alot of Ni in my actions / thoughts. So I will say "Yes" as an answer.
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
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Ni generally sets my direction. If it's telling me something, I'd be a fool to ignore it, since there's obviously something that I'm not seeing otherwise.

Overall, I trust my Ni, as it doesn't usually let me down. And though I couldn't make a snap judgment in this scenario based solely on my Ni, I'd definitely search for the evidence needed to prove/disprove it.
 

highlander

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"You've been interviewing candidates for a job.
One of them has all the credentials, and scored the highest on all the company-defined criteria for the job.
Another one of them was pretty good but not in the same league.
You have a sense about the high-scorer, though, that he's bad news, and that the "so-so" one will work out well.
You can't point to anything that's led you to this conclusion, you can't justify your belief, but you have this sense just the same."

1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
2. Which one would you hire?
3. How certain are you of your decision?

I've trained myself over the years to look at a few things.
1. Behaviors - What are the behaviors somebody needs to demonstrate to be successful on the job? You obtain evidence through questioning and specific examples. Based on that, you assess if they have a sufficient number of the behaviors that are required to be successful in the job.
2. Intelligence - You can get an idea through grades, test scores, and other things in the conversation.
3. Skills - Do they have the experience and the skills to be successful?
4. Natural Ability - Do they have the natural ability to grow into the job or what could be the job?

Gut feeling and first impressions are an influence. They always are. The tyranny of it is this: We like people who are like us. We like people that we have things in common with. We tend to dislike people who think differently than we do. We project our good and bad qualities onto others. We like people who smile, lean forward, show enthusiasm, make eye contact, etc. We dislike people who don't. I have learned the hard way that charm and charisma does not equal capability or performance.

So, I have made enough mistakes to learn not to get myself into the positon of having to answer the question in the OP. I'll have a gut feeling but I'll back it up with some evidence and I'll listen to the other people who interviewed this person because I know they will see things that I don't. I'm actually pretty good at making hiring decisions. I'm sure intuition has something to do with it. But again, I've learned that if I rely on it to the exclusion of other things, that I can make mistakes.

Most people rely on their gut feeling far too much in interviewing/recruiting situations, regardless as to whether or not Ni is in their top three functions. Some are not discerning enough and others are discerning in the wrong way.
 

skylights

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a very similar situation to this happened to me recently, actually. i was called in to help interview two candidates.

one was little more laid back and kind of vague. his resume looked good but in conversation he didn't exude knowledge or specific goals/direction. he was open and friendly and... didn't always answer the question.

the other had more of a prim-and-proper sense about her and was eager to share knowledge and specific goals/direction. she was more awkward in communication (had a weird "kid" voice she'd use sometimes... ugh...)

in my writeup for the deciding committee, i did err to the side of my gut, which said the guy, though i gave them both well-rounded reviews. i'm grateful that a committee of people is deciding this, and not just me. i haven't heard who was selected yet, and i won't know how it all pans out for another year at least. but we'll see! it'll be an interesting exercise.



1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
2. Which one would you hire?
3. How certain are you of your decision?

  1. i value it, but i don't trust it completely. there's always the possibility it could be too partial a read.
  2. if i'm not allowed to consult anyone else, or do any extra research - if i absolutely HAVE to hire someone on the spot - well, i would still want to try to break it down. see if my weird vibes have any factual basis. the problem is, if i have someone to report to if this person ends up doing a bad job, it's much easier to defend the better-qualified candidate. yes, i am interested in covering for my own tail. but if i have to work with this person often then i am going to hire whoever i have a better feeling about. i'm sure i can bullshit a good answer to why i hired the more average one later, even if i don't really want to have to.
  3. depends entirely on the situation, the people, and the circumstances surrounding it.

i'm having a hard time differentiating between a Ne-Fi read and Ni, though. i generally have a superficial sense about people who i first meet that is totally accurate but not the whole picture, if that makes sense. like one of my very good friends i was initially wary of - much later i find out that she has very high trust boundaries and can be quite critical of those she does not know well sometimes. but it was not a full read - like i said, we are now very close friends. it was not a "ALERT BAD PERSON" vibe, it was just an "ALERT BE WARY AROUND THIS PERSON" vibe.

is this Ni, or is this what i've been understanding as Ne-Fi? either i've misunderestimated (hah thank you george bush) my Ni ability, or i'm way underestimating Ni and i only have a very limited grip on it, or i'm using NeFi to come up with a Ni facsimile.

actually one of the reasons i suspect it is a NeFi facsimile is because it doesn't tell me anything about the future, just about what to do in the present.

If I had a really bad feeling about the first guy I'd go searching for proof to back that feeling up.

There's got to be a reason for that feeling.

:yes:

N isn't magic. it's not infallible and it doesn't come from some sparkly divine unicorn. it's just getting to an answer before you know how you got there. it sacrifices detail to save time.

and i feel like it's not wise to always trust intuition alone, even if one's Ni is very well-developed. i'm a Ne dom, intuition is the ocean i swim in, but that doesn't mean it's always showing me everything that is significant. i would rather see more information from another supporting source first. but then, perhaps that is what makes me a P. :)
 

Tamske

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"You've been interviewing candidates for a job.
One of them has all the credentials, and scored the highest on all the company-defined criteria for the job.
Another one of them was pretty good but not in the same league.
You have a sense about the high-scorer, though, that he's bad news, and that the "so-so" one will work out well.
You can't point to anything that's led you to this conclusion, you can't justify your belief, but you have this sense just the same."

1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
No.
2. Which one would you hire?
My Ni says I will be wrong with either choice. If I hire the one with the good credentials, my gut feeling will turn out right.
If I hire the other one, it will turn out my gut feeling was wrong and I will slap my head about not making the logical choice.
Yes, that Ni of mine is pessimistic like that. Probably I'll try to find out where the gut feeling comes from. Most of the time I can pinpoint it to a cause.
If I don't get more information, I'll hire the first one. You know, even if it turns out bad, I at least made the choice I could defend the best to my superiors.
3. How certain are you of your decision?
Not certain at all. I hate gut feelings, because I can't know whether to follow them or not.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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"You've been interviewing candidates for a job.
One of them has all the credentials, and scored the highest on all the company-defined criteria for the job.
Another one of them was pretty good but not in the same league.
You have a sense about the high-scorer, though, that he's bad news, and that the "so-so" one will work out well.
You can't point to anything that's led you to this conclusion, you can't justify your belief, but you have this sense just the same."

1. Do you trust this unjustifiable idea?
2. Which one would you hire?
3. How certain are you of your decision?

My answers:
1. Yes Same
2. The one I sensed would work out. Same
3. 100% 90%



I'd still check it out...using Fi :D
It's interesting, I consider this process part of my Fi really. I do the background check to figure out where that feeling comes from automatically with NeFi. I'll ask questions, see if I can find out how this person works and why, see if the puzzle comes together, as it'll help me justify and defend my decision. I always thought it was the endconclusion of NeFi which provided that gut-feeling :D

Once I figure out *why* he's bad news, I'll reevaluate..is it bad news that I can handle? Coz then I'll hire him and adjust accordingly..otherwise, I'll stick with my original choice.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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^ I'd say I have a similar process.....to me it's FiNe....I'm not entirely sure how Ni would work with me because I don't think it's a top function in my brain. Generally, credentials and criteria is used to justify the FiNe vibes, so I start with the whole impression & then break it down (I don't "score" people)....inferior Te, you know. :cheese:
 
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