• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

What annoys me about some Ps...

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
I actually think I'd put a lot of INTP's I know above the ISTJ's I know in a list of most close-minded and rigid people I've met. After all, they're so much smarter than everyone else aren't they, so surely whatever they say is bound to be more right than anything we humble mortals can say or think?

I mean, I've seen INTP's on here argue very close-minded attitudes against for example, homosexuality, transsexualism etc., whilst my mother the straight-laced ESFJ will join her colleague on a gay pride march without blinking an eye. And the ISTJ I know almost always apologises and admits his faults if you point out that he's been rude or insensitive, whereas many INTP's will argue to the death that they shouldn't HAVE to be sensitive and that social conventions are stupid so it's your problem if you saw their behaviour as rude, and that their rudeness was only in your mind etc etc... yawn!!

Maybe it's because I've spent a lot of my life around J's, with mostly positive results, that I don't share this 'P' prejudice against J's.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
Closure in deciding matters is not related to open mindness. If the person takes into account multiple perspectives before coming to a decision, he/she is open minded - as much as people that do not take any decision before having considered all the options (again, it seems to be valid the old adagio that not taking any decision is a decision in itself).
 

Littlelostnf

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
645
MBTI Type
ENFJ
...is the way they act as though Ps have a monopoly on open-mindedness simply because their perceiving function is extraverted.

As absurd as you find we Js' penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is reality, we find your penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is the mind.

I actually think I'd put a lot of INTP's I know above the ISTJ's I know in a list of most close-minded and rigid people I've met. After all, they're so much smarter than everyone else aren't they, so surely whatever they say is bound to be more right than anything we humble mortals can say or think?

I mean, I've seen INTP's on here argue very close-minded attitudes against for example, homosexuality, transsexualism etc., whilst my mother the straight-laced ESFJ will join her colleague on a gay pride march without blinking an eye. And the ISTJ I know almost always apologises and admits his faults if you point out that he's been rude or insensitive, whereas many INTP's will argue to the death that they shouldn't HAVE to be sensitive and that social conventions are stupid so it's your problem if you saw their behaviour as rude, and that their rudeness was only in your mind etc etc... yawn!!

Maybe it's because I've spent a lot of my life around J's, with mostly positive results, that I don't share this 'P' prejudice against J's.


I have to say I know a few INTP's and they can definately be closedminded at times. I won't repeat what subsitute said but in my experience I've seen this to be very true.

It always amuses me how P's cling to the notion that P's have the monopoly on creativity, open mindedness and such. I think alot of the times their "open mindedness" simply allows them to do what they want to do no matter if it's the best thing for them do to...or the best thing for the people around them. Lot's of times it simply comes off as selfishness disguised as something more acceptable.

(don't get me wrong...I love me some P's :hug: just it never seems to penetrate their skulls that they are not the end all and be all of types...specially those NP's.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This is what has always mystified me about INFJs. We INXJs both see things from a variety of angles. Since Te is my secondary function, I don't feel any particular need to assign values to these angles; I simply take them in as "data" to be used or discarded later. INFJs, however, with secondary Fe feel compelled (I would imagine) to valuate. I would think the pull between seeing a plethora of angles and the compulsion to valuate them would make you guys (and gals) nuts!
It is possible to 'valuate' on a sliding scale. It doesn't have to be black-and-white. As i think about it, value systems don't inherently require absolutes, do they? They are often joined to absolutes, but there are other processes in place to create that result. When you trace values back to their core principles, then they become very abstract, so that the manner in which they are applied concretely becomes fluid, always adapting, never perfect, always variable.

Closure in deciding matters is not related to open mindness. If the person takes into account multiple perspectives before coming to a decision, he/she is open minded - as much as people that do not take any decision before having considered all the options (again, it seems to be valid the old adagio that not taking any decision is a decision in itself).
Good point.

I also find that it can require a degree of trust and openness to be willing to go with a 'best possible' course of action, even when you know full well there is no way to know with all certainty. A strongly iNtuitive J will be constantly viewing all angles and yet willing to choose a course of action. Refusal to do this could be an example of being 'closed'. And i agree that non-committal thinking can be very stubborn indeed.
 

Maverick

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
880
MBTI Type
ENTJ
This is not acceptable. Let's create a support group to defend the J's interests and the fact that we're open minded. There have been years of oppression from P's for being considered close minded. We J's are just as open minded as P's. I demand equal share in the open minded realm.

We need a support group for T's. We T's have just as many feelings inside. In fact, our feelings are more intense because we're not used to them so when they happen they are stronger. Really. It doesn't matter if you can't observe it, it's all in the fuctions.

And what about that horrendous stereotype that E's are extraverted? Nonsense! We E's are just as introverted in the inside and it annoys me that I's think they're the only introverted. In fact, inside we are more introverted than introverts. It's all a question of functions. Use your intuition! Gosh.
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
This is not acceptable. Let's create a support group to defend the J's interests and the fact that we're open minded. There have been years of oppression from P's for being considered close minded. We J's are just as open minded as P's. I demand equal share in the open minded realm.

We need a support group for T's. We T's have just as many feelings inside. In fact, our feelings are more intense because we're not used to them so when they happen they are stronger. Really. It doesn't matter if you can't observe it, it's all in the fuctions.

And what about that horrendous stereotype that E's are extraverted? Nonsense! We E's are just as introverted in the inside and it annoys me that I's think they're the only introverted. In fact, inside we are more introverted than introverts. It's all a question of functions. Use your intuition! Gosh.

"Nowadays, everybody's gotta go to shrinks, and counselors, and go on 'Sally Jessy Raphael' and talk about their problems. What happened to Gary Cooper? The strong, silent type."
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This is not acceptable. Let's create a support group to defend the P's interests and the fact that we're close-minded. There have been years of oppression from J's for being considered open-minded. We P's are just as closed-minded as J's. I demand equal share in the close-minded realm!!

And what about that horrendous stereotype that I's are introverted? Nonsense! We I's are just as extroverted in the outside and it annoys me that E's think they're the only extroverted. In fact, outside we are more extroverted than extroverts. It's all a question of functions. Use your sensing! jeepers!
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
This is not acceptable. ...

:rofl1:

An elderly monk once gave me a dose of humility when it comes to being open minded...

Me: But don't you think we should all try to be more open minded?
Monk: Well yes, of course, it's good to keep your mind open. But for God's sake there's no need to have it open at both ends.
Me: :sadbanana:
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I actually think I'd put a lot of INTP's I know above the ISTJ's I know in a list of most close-minded and rigid people I've met. After all, they're so much smarter than everyone else aren't they, so surely whatever they say is bound to be more right than anything we humble mortals can say or think?

I mean, I've seen INTP's on here argue very close-minded attitudes against for example, homosexuality, transsexualism etc., whilst my mother the straight-laced ESFJ will join her colleague on a gay pride march without blinking an eye. And the ISTJ I know almost always apologises and admits his faults if you point out that he's been rude or insensitive, whereas many INTP's will argue to the death that they shouldn't HAVE to be sensitive and that social conventions are stupid so it's your problem if you saw their behaviour as rude, and that their rudeness was only in your mind etc etc... yawn!!...
I have also experienced this with INTPs. I will have to agree with you.

This is not acceptable. Let's create a support group to defend the J's interests and the fact that we're open minded. There have been years of oppression from P's for being considered close minded. We J's are just as open minded as P's. I demand equal share in the open minded realm.

We need a support group for T's. We T's have just as many feelings inside. In fact, our feelings are more intense because we're not used to them so when they happen they are stronger. Really. It doesn't matter if you can't observe it, it's all in the functions.

And what about that horrendous stereotype that E's are extraverted? Nonsense! We E's are just as introverted in the inside and it annoys me that I's think they're the only introverted. In fact, inside we are more introverted than introverts. It's all a question of functions. Use your intuition! Gosh.
tee-hee
I love good-humored sarcasm. :D

...Monk: Well yes, of course, it's good to keep your mind open. But for God's sake there's no need to have it open at both ends....
LOL! I love that! :rofl1:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I mean, I've seen INTP's on here argue very close-minded attitudes against for example, homosexuality, transsexualism etc., whilst my mother the straight-laced ESFJ will join her colleague on a gay pride march without blinking an eye. And the ISTJ I know almost always apologises and admits his faults if you point out that he's been rude or insensitive, whereas many INTP's will argue to the death that they shouldn't HAVE to be sensitive and that social conventions are stupid so it's your problem if you saw their behaviour as rude, and that their rudeness was only in your mind etc etc... yawn!!

I've been surrounded by ISTJs for years.

I dub thee crazy!!
 

xNFJiminy

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
108
MBTI Type
xNFJ
I'm always very open-minded when I first approach and assess an issue. I don't let Fe get in the way there, perhaps because I'm more consciously aware of it than people with a low Fe, so I can recognise feelings that originate from observing how others feel about it rather than logic. When I have thoroughly thought a subject through, and this can take months because I'm constantly searching for exceptions to any principles or rules that I seem to be judging it by or contradictions with existing opinions, I don't want to change my mind when I feel I've exhausted all other possibilities. Not that I won't or can't, I just stop thinking about it and looking for more information, because I don't want to re-evaluate the whole thing... a J's version of laziness?

Personalitypage.com has a paragraph in the INFJ personal growth section describing this:

Introverted iNtuition is a personality function that constantly gathers information, and sees everything from many different perspectives. As the dominant player in a personality, it has the effect of constantly bombarding the psyche with new information to consider. Introverted iNtuition is sort of like a framework for understanding that exists in the mind. As something is perceived, it is melded into the existing intuitive framework. If an entirely new piece of information is perceived by the Introverted iNtuitive, that person must redefine their entire framework of reference. So, Introverted iNtuitives are constantly taking in information about the world that needs to be processed in a relatively lengthy manner in order to be understood. That presents quite a challenge to the INFJ. It's not unusual for an INFJ to feel overwhelmed with all of the things that he or she needs to consider in order to fully understand an idea or situation.

When Introverted iNtuition dominates the INFJ such that the other functions cannot serve their own purposes, we find the INFJ cutting off information that it needs to consider. If the psyche is presented with information that looks anything like something that Introverted iNtuition has processed in the past, it uses Extraverted Feeling to quickly reject that information. The psyche uses Extraverted Feeling to reject the ideas, rather than taking the information into its intuitive framework, and therefore potentially causing that framework to be reshaped and redefined.
 
Top