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Using MBTI as a way... FFUUUUUU

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
As I usually say when this comes up, we try to be a site where typology can be investigated and critiqued, not just swallowed wholesale. Which is why we don't delete posts that are critical of MBTI. We welcome skeptics; I am one myself.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
I agree that if little school boys and girls are being seduced into a cult based around mbti then there is a problem. I don't think that's the case however. Here in the U.S. very few people are conscious of it, and even fewer have a passing interest in it. Some people with an interest in self improvement may get a little enthused at first exposure to it but most quickly see it's limitations and uses. Most "serious" researchers in the field have moved beyond it and are looking for and working with theories other than MBTI.

If that is the case, why is it used extensively in your military and business and why are there 'schools' profitably teaching it.

MBTI has no more truth value than astrology.

And I would be alarmed if my military and my businesses were using astrology.

I would not invest in any business that practised astrology and I would not feel safe if my military practised astrology.

Same with MBTI.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
If that is the case, why is it used extensively in your military and business and why are there 'schools' profitably teaching it.

Because it's a personality test.

Breaking up common aspects of behavior, and assigning them to different personality types, while it lacks scientific precision, can prove to be a useful way of looking at behavior.

Personality theory, or temperament theory, began with Greek doctor Hippocrates and the four humors. MBTI is a more refined version of this, offering 16 humors.
 

ring the bell

New member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
332
Knowing who you really are is liberating.
That is something no one can give you in a 4-letter code.

If only more people knew and understood the truth that MBTI provides. Discovering your type is liberating. No longer distracted by pursuits that are not befitting one's type but rather becoming empowered to focus on areas which your type is suited for.

I agree with both of these posts. MBTI is only dangerous when people try to fit their entire lives and interactions with all people to the confines of what MBTI teaches. It's a good place to start.. to begin the process of delving on in. It's just may not be the end all answer to all of our questions...
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
If that is the case, why is it used extensively in your military and business and why are there 'schools' profitably teaching it.

MBTI has no more truth value than astrology.

And I would be alarmed if my military and my businesses were using astrology.

I would not invest in any business that practised astrology and I would not feel safe if my military practised astrology.

Same with MBTI.

Some use it as a piece of data but none use it in all decisions. I highly doubt it even weighs that heavy in personnel and human resource decisions within these companies if there is evidence to the contrary.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
If only more people knew and understood the truth that MBTI provides. Discovering your type is liberating. No longer distracted by pursuits that are not befitting one's type but rather becoming empowered to focus on areas which your type is suited for.

Yeah, as much as I love Victor, I agree with Nizy on this.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Yeah, as much as I love Victor, I agree with Nizy on this.

What Wonk, you've defected?

Well let me appeal to your better nature. You don't believe in astrology for good reason. Well you have exactly the same reasons for not believing in MBTI.

And like the prodigal you can return to the fold.

I mean think what fun this site is and how much better it would be without the irrationality of MBTI.

There are lots of other personality tests that are valid and reliable when given by a psychometrician.

I mean Wonk you are a revolutionary in a revolutionary society, surely you will join the revolution here. Think of this as the Boston Tea Party, Fort Sumpter has been fired upon and all stout sons are called to fight for Freedom.

You are no longer a British colony and this is no longer MBTI Central.
 

Cenomite

Systematic chaos
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
623
MBTI Type
ENTP
I don't think that most people live by the MBTI like it's a cult, although this forum does definitely give off that impression. There are a lot of threads here that just take the concept way too far, and try and use it to answer questions about their/others lives that can't be answered by an unconfirmed, shallow personality test.

MBTI might be good for workplace applicability and fixing communication and teamwork gaps, but beyond that I don't think it has much use. It's too fuzzy.

Even though I personally don't take MBTI too seriously, I like coming here for a few reasons:
- A lot of the members here are smart, and give interesting discussions
- Even though I don't necessarily believe in MBTI's applicability to a lot of thread topics, I still enjoy reading those threads and others responses to them for various other reasons
- I can talk with people whom I already know a bit about. If someone lists "ENTP" under their profile, you know that regardless of how much merit MBTI has, that that person identifies with the ENTP profile. This means that I can talk to different kinds of people about different things. This isn't full-proof, of course.

Please ignore anything that doesn't make sense, I woke up 5 minutes ago :hi:
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
MBTI is a cult based on an invalid and unreliable personality test.

You know who you remind me of?

Those people who accused Socrates of corrupting the youth in ancient times.
 

Cenomite

Systematic chaos
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
623
MBTI Type
ENTP
You know who you remind me of?

Those people who accused Socrates of corrupting the youth in ancient times.

Do you think that MBTI has as much validity as the words of Socrates?

EDIT: Not taking a stance, just curious.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
As I usually say when this comes up, we try to be a site where typology can be investigated and critiqued, not just swallowed wholesale. Which is why we don't delete posts that are critical of MBTI. We welcome skeptics; I am one myself.

The next time an obnoxious person asks me why I am here,
I think I will just use your post to shut them up.

I thank you for your fairness and objectivity, Ivy.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Do you think that MBTI has as much validity as the words of Socrates?

EDIT: Not taking a stance, just curious.

No, certainly not.

But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates. The point is that people should be allowed to examine it for themselves, rather than being asked to accept that it's flawed based on someone else's analysis.

I believe that MBTI is a set of stylized, ideal archetypes that people's personalities often tend towards. You know, sort of like geometric shapes tend towards ideal forms, but often aren't really close to them in reality? Like, there are shapes of which you can say, that looks sort of like a square, and sort of like a circle. You can't really call it either, but you'll likely end up calling it whichever it seems closest to.

For instance, I'm nowhere near any of the archetypes, but I'm closest to INFJ. I could actually be knocked out of it, though, by having slightly stronger Te/Fi qualities (would push towards INTJ enough to knock me out), or slightly stronger Ne qualities (would push me towards ENTP enough to knock me out). So I'm INFJ, but I'm just barely closer to it than any other. A step up or sideways would "change" my type, because type is a bit of a stretch.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
What Wonk, you've defected?

Well let me appeal to your better nature. You don't believe in astrology for good reason. Well you have exactly the same reasons for not believing in MBTI.

And like the prodigal you can return to the fold.

I mean think what fun this site is and how much better it would be without the irrationality of MBTI.

There are lots of other personality tests that are valid and reliable when given by a psychometrician.

I mean Wonk you are a revolutionary in a revolutionary society, surely you will join the revolution here. Think of this as the Boston Tea Party, Fort Sumpter has been fired upon and all stout sons are called to fight for Freedom.

You are no longer a British colony and this is no longer MBTI Central.


LOL. :D

I think you're awesome, Victor, but I won't join anybody's revolution.

I do my own thing.

And I think MBTI is great whether other people do or not.
 

Cenomite

Systematic chaos
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
623
MBTI Type
ENTP
The point is that people should be allowed to examine it for themselves, rather than being asked to accept that it's flawed based on someone else's analysis.

Very true! I don't think that we should go around preaching that MBTI is some sort of evil cult to people who are uninformed, that's just reverse propaganda. But, I do think Victor has a point in that a lot of people who get absorbed into the whole "typology / self-discovery" scene tend to get too into it, and try to apply MBTI to things that it really shouldn't be applied to. I think that's more of what Victor meant by a cult.

No, certainly not.

But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates.

So when is it OK to accuse something or someone of causing corruption? Do you think that open-mindedness should have its limits? (Lolz off-topic)

I believe that MBTI is a set of stylized, ideal archetypes that people's personalities often tend towards. You know, sort of like geometric shapes tend towards ideal forms, but often aren't really close to them in reality? Like, there are shapes of which you can say, that looks sort of like a square, and sort of like a circle. You can't really call it either, but you'll likely end up calling it whichever it seems closest to.

That's pretty much my view on it
 

Wild horses

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,916
MBTI Type
ENFP
Hey this is what life is all about... finding ways to excuse your failures and shortcomings... self improvement is an illusion and any gains made are never long lasting... my experience... the best improvement just comes naturally with maturity.... It just so happens that some people never mature thats all... Ah well screw it we're not all a fine wine! :D:D:D
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates.


First of all, there are people who have lost jobs or not been hired because of type discrimination.
I have read hundreds upon hundreds of stories over the years.
And those are only the stories I know of.
Imagine the stories I do not know of.

I don't know where some people are getting their information from,
but MBTI is used in the corporate world.
It's how MBTI makes most of its money.
How would you like to have a job hanging in the balance,
based on a 4-letter code?

Frankly, I think it's unfair discrimination.
How would you like to be refused a job, for being INFJ or ENFP?

I've been self-employed so I don't have to deal with that shit.
But there are many people who do have to deal with it.
I have also read, and heard, stories of "type cliques" inside companies.
There are companies who demand their employees put a sticky label on their clothing,
and wear it at the office.

No, I am not kidding.

MBTI makes its money off corporations.
Not people in this forum.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
First of all, there are people who have lost jobs or not been hired because of type discrimination.
I have read hundreds upon hundreds of stories over the years.
And those are only the stories I know of.
Imagine the stories I do not know of.

I don't know where some people are getting their information from,
but MBTI is used in the corporate world.
It's how MBTI makes most of its money.
How would you like to have a job hanging in the balance,
based on a 4-letter code?

Frankly, I think it's unfair discrimination.
How would you like to be refused a job, for being INFJ or ENFP?

I've been self-employed so I don't have to deal with that shit.
But there are many people who do have to deal with it.
I have also read, and heard, stories of "type cliques" inside companies.
There are companies who demand their employees put a sticky label on their clothing,
and wear it at the office.

No, I am not kidding.

MBTI makes its money off corporations.
Not people in this forum.

Wow! If that is the case it is absolutely ridiculous. I am self employed as well so I have managed to avoid this type of absurdity. I think it can be useful to see what type of tasks one might possibly like and thus thrive in but only as a guess. Definitely not as a deciding factor.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
LOL. :D

I think you're awesome, Victor, but I won't join anybody's revolution.

I do my own thing.

And I think MBTI is great whether other people do or not.

Oh Wonk, what will the revolution be without you? Our horses stand ready champing at the bit. When the order is given, we move forward quietly at a slow walk, with only the sound of soft clinking but even the horses can feel the excitement. And soon almost without any encouragement the horses break into a soft trot, all together, of one purpose.

After all, a cavalry charge is very much about the horses, for a horse is not truly a horse except in a herd galloping, hooves beating, across the plain.

And as the herd gallops together across the plain, they exult in being horses, each one being as courageous as the next.

As their blood rises, they break into an imperious canter - beating, beating the rhythm of the canter with their flying hooves.

With the wind in their faces and their hair flying, they look magnificent. Their eyes flash and nothing can stop them.

Until the order is given, "Charge".

At that point everything changes, the whole herd breaks into a gallop - this is what they live for - the whole herd dancing at full gallop. Each one leaves himself and becomes one with the herd. It's beyond reason. It is beyond common sense. It is simply beautiful.

The canons may roar, the shot may ring out, but at full gallop they transcend all and carry us across the battlefield as though we were angels. Until we take the enemy at full gallop with cold steel.

Afterwards in the Mess, there is one place left empty, an empty plate and an empty cup - Wonk is no longer with us - his horse misses him, the herd misses him and I miss him.
 

Nizy

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
206
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Oh Wonk, what will the revolution be without you? Our horses stand ready champing at the bit. When the order is given, we move forward quietly at a slow walk, with only the sound of soft clinking but even the horses can feel the excitement. And soon almost without any encouragement the horses break into a soft trot, all together, of one purpose.

After all, a cavalry charge is very much about the horses, for a horse is not truly a horse except in a herd galloping, hooves beating, across the plain.

And as the herd gallops together across the plain, they exult in being horses, each one being as courageous as the next.

As their blood rises, they break into an imperious canter - beating, beating the rhythm of the canter with their flying hooves.

With the wind in their faces and their hair flying, they look magnificent. Their eyes flash and nothing can stop them.

Until the order is given, "Charge".

At that point everything changes, the whole herd breaks into a gallop - this is what they live for - the whole herd dancing at full gallop. Each one leaves himself and becomes one with the herd. It's beyond reason. It is beyond common sense. It is simply beautiful.

The canons may roar, the shot may ring out, but at full gallop they transcend all and carry us across the battlefield as though we were angels. Until we take the enemy at full gallop with cold steel.

Afterwards in the Mess, there is one place left empty, an empty plate and an empty cup - Wonk is no longer with us - his horse misses him, the herd misses him and I miss him.

Did you just kill Wonka with poetry?
 
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