Sensors who think they are Intuitives

[Poki]

The second part, yes. That's what I was going for, in that section. The first part -- lack of interest in theory and huge importance placed in specific details -- is very telling, though.

I'm, uh, afraid I'm not sure what your second response is responding to. I can't match it to anything I wrote.

Its not lack of interest in theory, but what we ultimately trust more is what we see or what we saw.

 

[Totenkindly]

First of all, MBTI measures "preferences."
There is no proof you are INTJ.
There is no proof your friend is ISFJ.
This has always been the problem with self-assessments.

Furthermore, preferring sensing over intuition does not mean a person lacks inuitive ability.
Preferring intuition does not mean a person lacks sensing ability.
If it did, you'd be blind and deaf.

Very true.

It also comes down to the mistake of intuitive = creative.
Anyone can be creative; you don't have to be iNtuitive.

The SFP confusion with N is documented too.

 

[Giggly]

Oh, oh, can I be an ENFP now?!

 

[Cimarron]

Why would they want to be an N? Unless you talked up how much better an N is to them before they took the test they would not have any reason to want that designation. My SJ and SP family members who took tests felt like the descriptions fit them very well. What reason, other than hearing "N is better" BEFORE taking the test, would make someone pretend to be N?

I'm guessing you bear some responsibility for the situation, whatever types your friends are.

That situation is possible, but I disagree. I think society, in some circles more than in others, values N traits. SPs like to be creative, that's a good example. Intellectuals like to be inventive, abstract, and deep. And in elementary school, the teachers/parents show kids how great it is to reach for their big dreams and change the world.

 

[Cheat1011]

Skill and Frequency of Use, along with preference has something to with it.

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

Its not lack of interest in theory, but what we ultimately trust more is what we see or what we saw.

Well, I'm sure seeing a lack of interest in my broader point, in favor of details.

 

[Grayscale]

personally i dont understand the positive insinuations about intuitive preference that circulate here...

apparently, iNTuition is what we call things that we're aware of that others are not. lack of intuition is how economic, cultural, generation, etc. related differences are explained.

so as far as i can tell, an intuitive is someone who is more inclined to make self affirming conclusions than to understand someone else... not a desirable trait in my opinion.


more seriously, intuition is an ability that everybody has to some degree... it is a mechanism to come to conclusions without complete information by filling in the blanks. some people prefer to do this more often than others. neither is necessarily better... the "correct" method is the one that allows accurate conclusion in the most efficient manner possible, which most often depends on what you already know. as far as intuition goes, the most important factor is not a preference for this ability, but how quickly someone can learn and adapt their thinking, which would not favor a "wide area" or sensory detail manner of gathering information. it only seems that gathering information as a whole rather than a collection of many smaller pieces is more efficient because the consequences of oversight are not nearly as easy to spot.

the inherent advantage for one over the other only comes in strategic vs tactical application, and neither is intrinsically "more intelligent", if intelligence is measured in terms of effectiveness, because that is conditional upon the desired outcome.

 

[StephMC]

I know a lot of S's that thought they were Ns at first. It's not that they are lying to themselves, it's just that they don't understand what the S/N preference is asking. Think about it... if you described the difference between S and N, most people might want to think they are an N. But remind them what it's asking: "How do you take in information?" That, in and of itself, is kind of hard to wrap your mind around if you're unfamiliar with type preferences. Sensors might be unaware that when they brush their hands along bushes or watch your facial expressions and respond to them that they are taking in sensory information.

And just like Jaguar said, just because you're a sensor, doesn't mean you're not intuitive. Me and my ex (INTP) took the test together our first time. We both ended up as ISTPs. Then my sister thought I was an INTP. It was all confusing at first, but when I read that ISTPs are frequently mistaken as either INTPs or INTJs, and that they sometimes can relate more with NTs than SPs... it all made sense. My INTP ex likes to focus on his laid-backness and practicality, but that was something he learned from his parents (who were very strict, practical people...maybe SJs.), so he came out more S than he is N. But naturally, he's an N, with a high Si. I was an ISTP, with a high Ni. A lot of factors can influence how much you use a function, and some Ss may use their N primary function more than others. Especially IPs and EJs because their two perception functions (N and S) are their two middle primary functions. That's all the more reason why as an ISTP (Ti Se Ni Fe) and INTP (Ti Ne Si Fe) can mistake themselves as one another.

I realize you said that this is not really about your friends, but sensors who think they are intuitives... but if you find yourself really annoyed by it, just explain to them in a very matter-of-fact way what a sensor is and even let them know that just because they are a S, doesn't mean they lack all intuitive ability. As I said, my Ni is pretty high for an S, but that doesn't make me an N. It's a good rule of thumb to know what you/they are more sure of... are they more sure of what their judging preference (T/F) is over they're perceiving preference (S/N)? Then that's an indicator that their two perceiving functions are in the middle and can be confused at times, and are most likely an EJ or IP. I find it doubtful that an ISFJ (Si Fe Ti Ne) can relate to an INTJ profile at all (Ni Te Fi Se)....That's beyond disillusion. So I would try to retype him.

 

[SubjectA]

Your first line seems to be biased against sensors... I'm not ultimately annoyed at my friends but at people in general who would rather dub themselves as an intuitive when they are clearly sensors. I don't control my friends personalities, I observe them.

I'm interested in how you think my first line was biased against sensors, and what exactly you meant by it.


Observation is tough when trying to type someone. My friends think I'm an ISFJ, but I'm not. I'm just really nice and loyal to them. There is tons of room for human error. So for all you know they really could be intuitives.

 

[King sns]

Yea and then remind them to switch to geico because its so easy even an S can do it.

 

[StephMC]

Yea and then remind them to switch to geico because its so easy even an S can do it.

 

[IZthe411]

I read the thread, but you put this condescending twist on it- like being an S is dirt.

Both traits have use in this world. And while you prefer to use iNtuition, it doesn't mean you have no sensing capabilities at all.

I read the INTJ profile, and while I have a whole lot of commonalities with the description, there are some clear areas in there where I know I'm different. Of the 4 traits, my S/N is the least skewed ('moderately' expressed) where I'm a slightly expressed introvert and significantly expressed thinker and judger. So I use intuition, but my preference is in the here and now.

 

[Domino]

The tests really ARE confusing. If you don't have any training or experience with "spotting" types, or someone who can explain the theory to you, "false" results are bound to occur because what you think you SHOULD be tends to play up quite a lot. Misinterpretation of the functions and questions is a problem. I find a great many questions in the "Please Understand Me" books to be vague, leading or garbling. An overhaul is needed.

I have N friends who tests S, and S friends who test N.

 

[Wonkavision]

I would suggest printing off the descriptions on best fit. Some of the descriptions on the net and in books are not very good. Who wants to hear...

INTJ Talents: strategy Career: CEO of Ice cream company.
ISFP Talents: Refined taste Career: Food Taster at Ice cream company.

 

[Poki]

Well, I'm sure seeing a lack of interest in my broader point, in favor of details.

Actually its like rewritting the theory, whats the point of focusing on the parts that are correct. I would rather focus on the details so I can rewrite it to actually fit real life.

That situation is possible, but I disagree. I think society, in some circles more than in others, values N traits. SPs like to be creative, that's a good example. Intellectuals like to be inventive, abstract, and deep. And in elementary school, the teachers/parents show kids how great it is to reach for their big dreams and change the world.

Its statements like this that make people want to be N. You may not realize it, but you basically said Ss are not intellectual and deep and then went on to explain why its ok. Sometimes we are so quick to defend ourselves, especially against our inferior function, we dont realize we are steering others in saying that S's are not intellectual, abstract, and deep.

 

[Qre:us]

I'm really quite annoyed at all the people who I tell about the MBTI types who keep thinking that they are Intuitives. They take the mbti personality test and pretty much answer on how they want to be.
I've got an ISFJ friend who thinks he's an INTJ saying "Yea, that's definitely me"
Then I got my ISFP friend who thinks he's an INFP.
It just makes me wonder how people who claim they are N are really an S.
Is being a sensor really so bad that people can't accept it as part of their personality?

EDIT:
This thread is about natural sensors who think they are intuitives not about my friends. To cancel out further misunderstandings.

You sound like an ISFJ, and a youngen at that, getting so worked up about properly role-playing MBTI types b/w friends; are you sure you're INTJ?

 

[StephMC]

I think someone just unleashed the ISTPs on this thread. *High fives Poki and Grayscale*.....

 

[Cimarron]

Its statements like this that make people want to be N. You may not realize it, but you basically said Ss are not intellectual and deep and then went on to explain why its ok. Sometimes we are so quick to defend ourselves, especially against our inferior function, we dont realize we are steering others in saying that S's are not intellectual, abstract, and deep.

I'm saying that that's why Ss may think they are Ns, because that's how descriptions or tests portray them.

I'm glad you wrote that first line, because that shows my point.

 

[Domino]

ISTPs have leashes?

 

[Jaguar]

And just like Jaguar said, just because you're a sensor, doesn't mean you're not intuitive. .

This thread was started by an INTJ.
I once posted scores of a group of INTJs.
The majority of them were near the midpoint of S/N.
So close, in fact, we're talking almost 50-50.

I have no idea why the OP is babbling on like this.
But the person is in dire need of a reality check.
It is worthless to slam anyone with an S preference,
when so many people--not only INTJs-- fall so close to the S/N midpoint.

Jung espoused wholeness and balance,
rather than falling on an unbalanced ass with a resounding thud.