Sensors who think they are Intuitives

[Saslou]

Hello.
I have joked and even asked the other day on this forum if i could change to ENTx. OK, S's make the world go round but its the N's that are the intellectuals. I know i can never be that.
Example, i did enjoy the film Fight Club but you know i sat there for so long trying to figure out that they were both the same person. Yet, put me in a situation where i need defuse people's tempers and i'm great.

I was hoping to find a perfect type on here, oh it doesn't exist so i think i'll stay esfj.

With regards to your friends, you shouldn't tell them what type they are. Only they can come to that conclusion on their own. When an INTJ is telling someone they are right all the time, its not productive. I used to in jest wind my ex up when we were sitting having a discussion about something. I would throw something random into the conversation just to see that look, only for a moment where i can see the cogs going, trying to find the connections.
We S's don't take everything so serious, maybe you need to lighten up around your friends a little.

I've been subject to having a bias against sensors before because I've mostly seen the unhealthy side of sensing personalities.

But now I see it more as a difference as I've seen how useful they can be with their huge amount of attention to details (which can get annoying...)

I do, however, think it's mostly SFJs that I've had problems with as I've had experiences where they only pay attention to information that agrees with their beliefs, and some will stand by the stupidest information no matter how irrelevant it is.

It is silly comments like this that make me wish my type was XXXX. Granted you did mention the word 'unhealthy', yet how often do people talk of 'healthy' sensors. Its mostly the 'negative' that gets brought up.

So the SFJ's that were healthy, did they have a wider scope of vision, willing to take in new information, possibly change their beliefs as they have had time to reflect on what was said.
We have talked about this on the SJ forum. Conclusion.
You lot need to show us some love.

 

[Kalach]

I'm really quite annoyed at all the people who I tell about the MBTI types who keep thinking that they are Intuitives. They take the mbti personality test and pretty much answer on how they want to be.
I've got an ISFJ friend who thinks he's an INTJ saying "Yea, that's definitely me"
Then I got my ISFP friend who thinks he's an INFP.
It just makes me wonder how people who claim they are N are really an S.
Is being a sensor really so bad that people can't accept it as part of their personality?

EDIT:
This thread is about natural sensors who think they are intuitives not about my friends. To cancel out further misunderstandings.

See, that's your problem right there (somewhere there), that whole turning complex theory into practical outcomes hizzy, baselining reality, checking it with truth. No good can come of that. Ya gotta let people have their illusions. Why, if they can't have their illusions, they'd, they'd... well, who knows what they'd do. It can't be good.

I have, by the bye, an ISFP buddy who really much prefers the INFP type descriptions. So, in my humble opinion, he's an ISFP who prefers the INFP type descriptions. That he likes the type descriptions doesn't make him an INFP, but it does mean that something in there appeals to him. If he wanted to be accurate (and extroverted about being accurate), he could find a better way of describing what it is appeals and why.

 

[Oaky]

Hello.
I have joked and even asked the other day on this forum if i could change to ENTx. OK, S's make the world go round but its the N's that are the intellectuals. I know i can never be that.
Example, i did enjoy the film Fight Club but you know i sat there for so long trying to figure out that they were both the same person. Yet, put me in a situation where i need defuse people's tempers and i'm great.

I was hoping to find a perfect type on here, oh it doesn't exist so i think i'll stay esfj.

With regards to your friends, you shouldn't tell them what type they are. Only they can come to that conclusion on their own. When an INTJ is telling someone they are right all the time, its not productive. I used to in jest wind my ex up when we were sitting having a discussion about something. I would throw something random into the conversation just to see that look, only for a moment where i can see the cogs going, trying to find the connections.
We S's don't take everything so serious, maybe you need to lighten up around your friends a little.

I understand you quite well but you said yourself that you know you could never be ENTx. It is that issue that I'm bringing up that some people think they are something else when they aren't.
You are right in that I do need to lighten up around my friends. I frequently get quite stubborn maybe just to be able to prove I'm right or whatever.
Also the idea that Kalach brought up that they are living a tiny illusion is right. I myself just like to make things clear for them. It's just feels like hanging with people who are just oblivious to what's really happening. But yea, they probably don't take it as seriously. Much less then I do.

See, that's your problem right there (somewhere there), that whole turning complex theory into practical outcomes hizzy, baselining reality, checking it with truth. No good can come of that. Ya gotta let people have their illusions. Why, if they can't have their illusions, they'd, they'd... well, who knows what they'd do. It can't be good.

I have, by the bye, an ISFP buddy who really much prefers the INFP type descriptions. So, in my humble opinion, he's an ISFP who prefers the INFP type descriptions. That he likes the type descriptions doesn't make him an INFP, but it does mean that something in there appeals to him. If he wanted to be accurate (and extroverted about being accurate), he could find a better way of describing what it is appeals and why.

I see. In your case you would leave the people with their ideas and illusions. Not really point them out. Although in my case, it's just annoying to be with people who don't see the reality behind the illusion. That's why I don't really leave them to their ideas. That is of course if the topic interests me. Yes, stubbornness is a weak point for me and I also enjoy argument which furthers my problem. I do of course try to fix my weak points but when I'm not paying attention they pretty much pop back up.

 

[Cimarron]

I will try to address your topic:

As I said before, this thread was supposed to be more about those sensors who ultimately think they are intuitives. Not my friends. I'm just interested in the reasons they would think in such a way. Of course I could talk about the other types such as Feelers who think they are Thinkers or whatever but I find that a larger number of sensors would rather be dubbed as intuitive.

Yes, call a stubborn person stubborn and he'd disagree. Call a person what they rather not be and they'd disagree. It's human nature. Most people can't read themselves because they lie to themselves.

Why would Sensors think that they were Intuitives? Type-descriptions portray Intuitives as being very special individuals, rare and talented. They are often portrayed as the people who "change the world." In our culture, people want to be unique, imaginative, special, and talented. Even "quirky" and "weird" are often traits held with pride. They don't want to be the same thing everybody else is--especially not people who take personality tests. (I realized when I wrote this that many on this site have said "I was glad to find out that I was not alone in my strange behavior traits." However, I think this applies well for Sensors who are mistyping themselves as Intuitives, people with "common" traits wishing for more "special" traits.)

Because of the influence from society that these are good traits, people would like to believe that they'd have them. And I think there is plenty of room for "lying to themselves," as you said, or in confusing the way they are with the way they'd want to be. It is very true that schools and jobs demand and admire S traits (usually SJ traits), and yet at the same time I think schools also stress the importance of N traits and try to cultivate those, too.

Edit: In regards to preference, maybe Personality Type Theory is one way for Sensors to indulge their Intuitive side once in a while, and so when thinking about MBTI etc., they are thinking about their Intuitive side. They may think they are looking into the "deeper" parts of themselves, and that that must be their "true" selves because of it being deepest.

 

[colourscientist]

We S's don't take everything so serious, maybe you need to lighten up around your friends a little.

but doing everything for fun without conviction saddens people who look for a higher meaning in life, values greater than themselves. (i don't target you or anyone else in the thread, just sayin'..)

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

Though the outright annoyance bemuses me, I've also been perplexed by this tendency. There's one fellow I know who insists he's an INTP, and keeps throwing the term around, when... he's clearly not. I just mentally clear my throat and ignore him when he does that.

He's definitely a sensor; he goes on and on about the fidelity of his video and sound setups (high-def and Blu-Ray are a big, big deal with this guy), and grouses about the end quality of restored media while paying no interest to the actual process and logistics of the restoration and the hurdles overcome -- which for me is always the most fascinating thing. When I talk to him, he seems to pick up on only the most superficial of details about what I'm saying. I feel like I have to bend over backwards to make a point.

He's also bizarrely outgoing; he often reminds me of a used car salesman. Once he badgered me about my not having a cell phone. I told him I rarely even used my land line. I told him I didn't really have anyone I felt so compelled to talk to that it couldn't wait. So I guess he started to feel sorry for me, because he began to call me frequently, at length, about nothing, and scream down the phone at me.

Then later he kept badgering me about staying with me and having me show him around when he was in town, whereas I live in a tiny studio apartment, and he, uh... I know I'd get no peace with him here. And he'd be here for a week. Plus I wouldn't know where to begin showing him around.

I'm not sure what he is, exactly; he doesn't seem to fall clearly into a type. INTP, though, he ain't.

One of the cafe regulars, again clearly a sensor (you should see the guy's apartment; how ornate it is), perhaps an ISTJ, had heard of the MBTI. And when I explained my type, he said, yes, that was him too. Mm-hmm, I thought. Moving right along. Generally an astute guy, though any kind of conversation with him slams against that S/N communication divide.

In my experience, it's always a "me too" thing. I think there's a huge horoscope effect going on here, along with a need for belonging and identification. You know how horoscopes are written so generally that anyone can find applicable details, then mentally skew a description so it feels like it was specifically tailored to that person. This isn't a critical process, and it doesn't come from a place of acute self-awareness; rather it comes from a desire to see one's self reflected. Combine that with a sense of peer pressure -- well, my friend says this describes him, and if he's my friend we can't be that different -- and I guess it shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

The thing is, the MBTI does describe a certain spectrum. All of us display all of the behaviors of every type at some point in our lives, under certain circumstances. It's just that with each of us, some of the colors are bolder than others. So (to resort to stereotype about sensors, but applied to these particular case studies) if you're not as comfortable with introspecting and filtering that information and abstracting some broad tendencies about yourself, and you're not very interested in the theory for its own sake, I can see it being harder to sort through the noise and figure out what actually applies to you.

Short version: I think the people described here are looking at the system for something other than abstract understanding. It seems to be mostly social validation.

 

[Saslou]

but doing everything for fun without conviction saddens people who look for a higher meaning in life, values greater than themselves. (i don't target you or anyone else in the thread, just sayin'..)

No, i totally understand where you are coming from. Not everything is done for fun. I suppose i am trying to say that not everything is done in all seriousness either. Its that balance that we are all looking for (i hope).
Example - Work. Its a job, a means to an end. Should it become all serious or can one perceive an element of fun within it.
I believe for me, i have to find meaning in all that i do before i can find a higher meaning in life.
This is why although i know what i am, it may be more beneficial for me to be an ENTx so i have more deep moments, find values greater than myself and be at one with myself.
Unfortunately, that will never happen.
I can only hope that i am fortunate enough to have more NT's in my life at some point, so i can explore myself on a deeper level, and maybe in return i can offer these people something beneficial to them.

 

[SubjectA]

I'm really quite annoyed at all the people who I tell about the MBTI types who keep thinking that they are Intuitives. They take the mbti personality test and pretty much answer on how they want to be.
I've got an ISFJ friend who thinks he's an INTJ saying "Yea, that's definitely me"
Then I got my ISFP friend who thinks he's an INFP.
It just makes me wonder how people who claim they are N are really an S.
Is being a sensor really so bad that people can't accept it as part of their personality?

EDIT:
This thread is about natural sensors who think they are intuitives not about my friends. To cancel out further misunderstandings.

So why does this bother you? It sounds to me like they would just really like to improve something about themselves, only they have a strange way of saying it. I'd say you need a hobby if you get that upset over something as flawed as MBTI. Sorry but you don't have the monopoly on your friends' personalities. They do. At work someone would easily mistake me for being an ISTJ, for example. It goes to show you that people are hard to type, especially if you only see them in certain environments.

Besides do you not think that intuitives are guilty of the same thing? The situation you're describing is a pretty human thing to do all around. And I'm not just talking about MBTI either here.

No, not preferences but what you are most comfortable being. For example: I prefer to be an INTP or INFJ, does that make me them? Not really. I'd probably be most comfortable being an INTJ whether or not it is my preference. Each person can change their personality type but the one they feel most relaxed being is the one they are.

But is it so bad to make yourself more well-rounded?

 

[Kalach]

I see. In your case you would leave the people with their ideas and illusions. Not really point them out.

Oh no, I used to point it out all the time. I worked out after a while though that in his particular case he actually could care less about MBTI and also didn't like... something ...about being told, "No, you're ISFP." Since he literally couldn't give a damn about the theory I guess he didn't like the restriction of hearing someone throw a negative at him, or something, so we usually talk about other stuff now. He lets his eyes glaze over when me and a mutual ENFP buddy get into it.

Although in my case, it's just annoying to be with people who don't see the reality behind the illusion. That's why I don't really leave them to their ideas. That is of course if the topic interests me. Yes, stubbornness is a weak point for me and I also enjoy argument which furthers my problem. I do of course try to fix my weak points but when I'm not paying attention they pretty much pop back up.

I do know what you mean. I guess it's Te does that. Seems using Te means it's weird and uncomfortable to let public falsehoods or misunderstandings go.

(Unless you don't care. Then people can do what they like with "truth".)

 

[Laurie]

Why would they want to be an N? Unless you talked up how much better an N is to them before they took the test they would not have any reason to want that designation. My SJ and SP family members who took tests felt like the descriptions fit them very well. What reason, other than hearing "N is better" BEFORE taking the test, would make someone pretend to be N?

I'm guessing you bear some responsibility for the situation, whatever types your friends are.

 

[Jeffster]

A lot of SPs test as Ns specifically, because we take the test questions literally. So if a test asks do you prefer to do things the old way or find a new way, we are always going to say a new way. But the SP view of what a "new way" is differs greatly from the N view of it. The SP way is more like a new twist on an old way. I can see that now that I'm in my 30's, but for most of my life, I would have told you that all my ideas/methods were original. So it's not surprising I would choose the "N" answer to many questions.

 

[pure_mercury]

Though the outright annoyance bemuses me, I've also been perplexed by this tendency. There's one fellow I know who insists he's an INTP, and keeps throwing the term around, when... he's clearly not. I just mentally clear my throat and ignore him when he does that.

He's definitely a sensor; he goes on and on about the fidelity of his video and sound setups (high-def and Blu-Ray are a big, big deal with this guy), and grouses about the end quality of restored media while paying no interest to the actual process and logistics of the restoration and the hurdles overcome -- which for me is always the most fascinating thing. When I talk to him, he seems to pick up on only the most superficial of details about what I'm saying. I feel like I have to bend over backwards to make a point.

He's also bizarrely outgoing; he often reminds me of a used car salesman. Once he badgered me about my not having a cell phone. I told him I rarely even used my land line. I told him I didn't really have anyone I felt so compelled to talk to that it couldn't wait. So I guess he started to feel sorry for me, because he began to call me frequently, at length, about nothing, and scream down the phone at me.

Then later he kept badgering me about staying with me and having me show him around when he was in town, whereas I live in a tiny studio apartment, and he, uh... I know I'd get no peace with him here. And he'd be here for a week. Plus I wouldn't know where to begin showing him around.


I'm not sure what he is, exactly; he doesn't seem to fall clearly into a type. INTP, though, he ain't.

This sound more like overbearing E than S. He may very well be an S, but I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call based on this info.

One of the cafe regulars, again clearly a sensor (you should see the guy's apartment; how ornate it is), perhaps an ISTJ, had heard of the MBTI. And when I explained my type, he said, yes, that was him too. Mm-hmm, I thought. Moving right along. Generally an astute guy, though any kind of conversation with him slams against that S/N communication divide.

In my experience, it's always a "me too" thing. I think there's a huge horoscope effect going on here, along with a need for belonging and identification. You know how horoscopes are written so generally that anyone can find applicable details, then mentally skew a description so it feels like it was specifically tailored to that person. This isn't a critical process, and it doesn't come from a place of acute self-awareness; rather it comes from a desire to see one's self reflected. Combine that with a sense of peer pressure -- well, my friend says this describes him, and if he's my friend we can't be that different -- and I guess it shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

The thing is, the MBTI does describe a certain spectrum. All of us display all of the behaviors of every type at some point in our lives, under certain circumstances. It's just that with each of us, some of the colors are bolder than others. So (to resort to stereotype about sensors, but applied to these particular case studies) if you're not as comfortable with introspecting and filtering that information and abstracting some broad tendencies about yourself, and you're not very interested in the theory for its own sake, I can see it being harder to sort through the noise and figure out what actually applies to you.

Short version: I think the people described here are looking at the system for something other than abstract understanding. It seems to be mostly social validation.

That's very possible, but not all Ns act alike. Neither do Ss. I straddle the two, so there are people who are certain that I am one or the other. Depending on the situation, different tendencies will come out.

 

[King sns]

yea or do you prefer specifics or generalities...
Well i'm not some kind of a nitpicky perfectionist so....

 

[wolfy]

I would suggest printing off the descriptions on best fit. Some of the descriptions on the net and in books are not very good. Who wants to hear...

INTJ Talents: strategy Career: CEO of Ice cream company.
ISFP Talents: Refined taste Career: Food Taster at Ice cream company.

 

[Oaky]

So why does this bother you? It sounds to me like they would just really like to improve something about themselves, only they have a strange way of saying it. I'd say you need a hobby if you get that upset over something as flawed as MBTI. Sorry but you don't have the monopoly on your friends' personalities. They do. At work someone would easily mistake me for being an ISTJ, for example. It goes to show you that people are hard to type, especially if you only see them in certain environments.

Besides do you not think that intuitives are guilty of the same thing? The situation you're describing is a pretty human thing to do all around. And I'm not just talking about MBTI either here.

But is it so bad to make yourself more well-rounded?

Your first line seems to be biased against sensors... I'm not ultimately annoyed at my friends but at people in general who would rather dub themselves as an intuitive when they are clearly sensors. I don't control my friends personalities, I observe them.

Why would they want to be an N? Unless you talked up how much better an N is to them before they took the test they would not have any reason to want that designation. My SJ and SP family members who took tests felt like the descriptions fit them very well. What reason, other than hearing "N is better" BEFORE taking the test, would make someone pretend to be N?

I'm guessing you bear some responsibility for the situation, whatever types your friends are.

Why would they want to be N? Exactly the point I was trying to make at the beginning of the thread.
Don't put all the responsibilities on me for the situation. I just say things as they are.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

A lot of SPs test as Ns specifically, because we take the test questions literally. So if a test asks do you prefer to do things the old way or find a new way, we are always going to say a new way. But the SP view of what a "new way" is differs greatly from the N view of it. The SP way is more like a new twist on an old way. I can see that now that I'm in my 30's, but for most of my life, I would have told you that all my ideas/methods were original. So it's not surprising I would choose the "N" answer to many questions.

I agree that the test questions are often problematic for a few categories. How could the SP be the "Artisan" if they aren't especially creative? The concept of being original = N distorts the categories, I think. There is something compelling in the S-N poles, but also some problems. I have understood one important distinction is concrete-abstract which would not be related to creativity or new ideas so much as the nature of that creativity and new ideas. The Sensing/iNtuition poles are about perceiving. What is the nature of the data you collect? Is it tangible or intangible? Do you remember the facial expressions of the person or what the pattern their words implied? Are you more comfortable starting with a theory and applying it, or with constructing ideas and conclusions from what can be directly observed? That's how I understand the distinction. If many Sensors mis-identify as iNtuitives, then it suggests there is a problem in how the categories are defined and/or communicated.

 

[pure_mercury]

Personally, when I took my first MBTI test and got ESFJ, I was very pleased with all the descriptions. Pretty much everything sounded positive. Pretty much all of the type descriptions were glowing. I was shocked when I started coming here and reading how some Ns described S's (ESFJ's in particular).

 

[prplchknz]

if end up being a sensor, who cares? my personality will not change because of it, its not the end of the world honestly.

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

This sound more like overbearing E than S. He may very well be an S, but I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call based on this info.

The second part, yes. That's what I was going for, in that section. The first part -- lack of interest in broader concepts and huge importance placed in specific details -- is very telling, though.

I'm, uh, afraid I'm not sure what your second response is responding to. I can't match it to anything I wrote.

 

[Laurie]

What is the nature of the data you collect? Is it tangible or intangible? Do you remember the facial expressions of the person or what the pattern their words implied? Are you more comfortable starting with a theory and applying it, or with constructing ideas and conclusions from what can be directly observed? That's how I understand the distinction. If many Sensors mis-identify as iNtuitives, then it suggests there is a problem in how the categories are defined and/or communicated.

Yeah, actually I agree with Toonia, being here I wonder about the N thing. I actually don't identify with all the "shiny, awesome N-ness" I see parading around the forum but I identify with each of the questions you asked.