Relationships of Duality

[Into It]

If you are unaware of what type is your dual, freeze your "P/J" and reverse all of the other letters in your type.

ENFp >< ISTp
INTj >< ESFj

I am referring to socionics here, and socionic types do not cleanly translate into MBTI types. However, both theories were designed with the original 16 types in mind, and they are the same the majority of the time. If you think that you are a clear, strong representative of your MBTI type, you are probably the same socionics type. From Socionics.com:

"Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. A Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities. Conflicts between Duals are very rare and if there are any, they are normally short lived and solved without pain. Your Dual partner will love you just for what you are and if there is such a thing as true love then it could probably only occur in relations of Duality."

Tell me what conclusions you have gathered about relationships of duality from your own personal experiences. I want to know how you have felt about duals in your life, and what you appreciate about them.

I will start by saying that while I am captivated by several types for different reasons, my dual relationships with ISTPs (of which one has been romantic) have been the most simple and natural. I'm an extreme N, and almost all S's, respectable communicators in their own merit, are incapable of meeting me on my own level for any extended period of time. I am no better at curbing my own style. As a result of our inability to communicate with eachother effectively, S's and I do not speak with eachother, and virtually all of my friends are N's. Such a small amount of what I actually say is useful in itself that anyone unwilling to take in my statements through a 'conceptual grid' becomes so bored with my ruminations and abstractions so quickly that building a complex relationship with them would be all but impossible.

ISTP's are the exception. They exhibit all qualities typical to S's, yet they share a quality that gives them the impression of being something other than an S to me, namely that they can easily take in and analyze every thought I want to convey, no matter how abstract, provided they are not too long-winded. For this, I am so appreciative of the ISTP type - they really are the "other half" of a mind like mine, and they are so in a way that is utterly attractive. There really is something special about the ENFP/ISTP dynamic I have noticed. SP's really live (emphasis on live) an interesting way, and were it not for the ISTP's, their entire way of life would be lost on me.

Tell me what you think

 

[Unique]

They are amazing, all that needs to be said really

Edit. That and I need to find myself an ENFP lol

 

[BlackCat]

I'm a socionics ISFJ, and ENTJs pretty much rock my world. I love them.

 

[pippi]

You are talking about socionics when you bring up duality, so you should be using lower case j and p. Not to mention that MBTI types do NOT translate straight across into socionics (specifically for introverted types).

 

[JocktheMotie]

I'm a socionics LII [INTj] and my dual would be ESE [ESFj]. Never really had any relationships with them.

 

[Sachetan]

Well, being ENTP I know only one ISFP for sure. He's an artist, semi-famous and dating my friend who's ENTJ. She admires the guy, I can't stand him. He's full of himself and thinks he knows everything. But then maybe that's what an artist should be to be able to produce and sell his work to others.

But I'd like to meet other ISFPs to see how the rest of them are.

I like ISFJs better but don't meet them too often.


Added later:
Hmm... Maybe it's more that admiration on my friend's part than the guy I can't stand. I couldn't have a know-it-all in my life since I love to speculate so much!

 

[CJ99]

Never really met a definate ISFP but i've met a handful of people who could be ISFPs and all of them are rather cool people. Seem to be very in touch with who and what they are about which is awsome and yet it doesn't seem to annoy them at all that i'm constantly trying to change everything about myself to be the best person I can.

 

[Into It]

You are talking about socionics when you bring up duality, so you should be using lower case j and p. Not to mention that MBTI types do NOT translate straight across into socionics (specifically for introverted types).

Fixed. Why do you think that is the case for introverts?

 

[527468]

Fixed. Why do you think that is the case for introverts?

It's true, not necessarily, for all types, that socionics doesn't translate to MBTI. Plus, socionics extroversion and introversion have more in common with judging and perceiving, than rationality and irrationality has. Extroversion is closer to MBTI judging, and introversion is closer to MBTI perceiving, and rationality/irrationality is a new thing altogether. So sure, there are some weak correlations, no guarantees. I should also mention that the functions/elements are different.

However regarding socionics, yes I'm going to say it. Duality is ideal. Relationships are precisely what socionics is formed around, so figuring out your type and learning the system is recommended.

 

[Saslou]

"Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. A Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities. Conflicts between Duals are very rare and if there are any, they are normally short lived and solved without pain. Your Dual partner will love you just for what you are and if there is such a thing as true love then it could probably only occur in relations of Duality."

Tell me what conclusions you have gathered about relationships of duality from your own personal experiences. I want to know how you have felt about duals in your life, and what you appreciate about them.

The biggest problem i found with my dual was understanding. Closed book and lack of communication on both sides, moreso mine. I thought he was trying to control me and having come from a relationship where i was controlled so much it took me to the edge. I couldn't allow him to do this.

Hindsight. I see where he was coming from and have total respect now of how he was trying to help me. He wasn't trying to hurt me.

This site has helped me understand INTJ's better. I do respect their opinions and their way of doing things even if it is different from my way.
I know i'd never be able to have a deep intellectual debate with them, but that is why he has friends. I am open minded enough to listen and question why he thinks what he does, try to offer ideas from another perspective and bounce ideas off each other. I would like to hope an INTJ could learn a few things from me as well. (Hmmmm) Lol.

I have been talking to 2 INTJ's on here since yesterday and i really dig the fact that they have come to the Guardhouse and asked questions. They may look scary, but they are only human afterall. Pussy cats.

If i was to have another relationship with one. At least i know what i would be going into. That is, if they haven't run a mile from me.

 

[Matthew_Z]

I'd like to point out that because J/P has a different definition in socionics, dual partners, in MBTI terms will have ALL 4 letters reversed.

(Arguably, of course) There are several debates of what MBTI type corresponds to which socionics types. In socionics, J/P determines if a person's dominant(ego) function is a judging or perceiving function. This stands in contrast to the MBTI J/P in which it corresponds to which function receives the extraverted attitude. In the instance of extroverted types both systems will have the same function order because the dominant function is extroverted. In introverts, the auxiliary function is determined by the J/P preference in MBTI. In socionics, however, the J/P preference determines if the dominant function is a judging or perceiving function, not the auxiliary. As a result of all this, J/P is traditionally "flipped" in introverts between the two systems because of function order. (IE: INTP (MBTI) and INTj (socionics) have the same functions)

In Socionics, all letters except for J/P are changed for duals.
Therefore, MBTI "duals" would require ALL letters to change. (As one half of the dual would be introverted, thus requiring ONE of the J/P preferences to be changed)

 

[entropie]

i am estj and my dual is infj. Totally logical !

 

[Thursday]

any detailed interactions about INFPs and ESTPs ?
I have found that on the web, there are many accounts of how one adores the other

 

[527468]

I'd like to point out that because J/P has a different definition in socionics, dual partners, in MBTI terms will have ALL 4 letters reversed.

(Arguably, of course) There are several debates of what MBTI type corresponds to which socionics types. In socionics, J/P determines if a person's dominant(ego) function is a judging or perceiving function. This stands in contrast to the MBTI J/P in which it corresponds to which function receives the extraverted attitude. In the instance of extroverted types both systems will have the same function order because the dominant function is extroverted. In introverts, the auxiliary function is determined by the J/P preference in MBTI. In socionics, however, the J/P preference determines if the dominant function is a judging or perceiving function, not the auxiliary. As a result of all this, J/P is traditionally "flipped" in introverts between the two systems because of function order. (IE: INTP (MBTI) and INTj (socionics) have the same functions)

In Socionics, all letters except for J/P are changed for duals.
Therefore, MBTI "duals" would require ALL letters to change. (As one half of the dual would be introverted, thus requiring ONE of the J/P preferences to be changed)

No socionics doesn't account for judging and perceiving. No. We have to keep cleaning the lake every time someone dumps trash into it. It's called rationality/irrationality. It's not the same thing, and socionics type codes look like MBTI for very little reason. There is no objective duality in MBTI. Forget that idea.

 

[Matthew_Z]

No socionics doesn't account for judging and perceiving. No. We have to keep cleaning the lake every time someone dumps trash into it. It's called rationality/irrationality. It's not the same thing, and socionics type codes look like MBTI for very little reason. There is no objective duality in MBTI. Forget that idea.

While the dichotomy is usually known as rational/irrational, it can also be known as judging/perceiving. (Jung himself described judging functions as "rational" and perceiving functions as "irrational.") Of course, it should be kept in mind that the socionics and MBTI "judging" and "perceiving" do not mean the same thing in both contexts. While they may coincide in certain situations, they are inherently NOT the same thing.

That being said, I do acknowledge that socionics and MBTI types shouldn't be equally transmuted. MBTI =/= socionics. Ergo, while they may have their similarities, MBTI concepts should not be directly applied to socionics per se. (and vice versa) However, the purpose of this thread is more of an experiment to test if the concept of duality can carry over to MBTI, if even in a rough form. The purpose of my post which you have quoted is to inform the readers of this thread of what their MBTI "dual" would be, provided it existed.

 

[527468]

Those who speak of judging and perceiving dichotomies speak of Jung, Keirsey, or Myers-Briggs. If you think socionics applies those terms you are mistaken.

 

[Wiley45]

any detailed interactions about INFPs and ESTPs ?
I have found that on the web, there are many accounts of how one adores the other

Yes. My SO is an ESTP. (I've been thinking he was ESFP for a while, but he's actually ESTP.) We've had our share of rockiness in the relationship, but most of it has been a result of external stresses and certain seasons where we were in really difficult life situations.

I do adore him. He makes my life so much better. I'm neurotic and emotional, and he's very stable and calm. I'm prone to depression and brooding, but he constantly makes me laugh and stop focusing on the negative stuff. He's really good at watching my back and making sure nobody steps on me, since I'm pretty permissive and easygoing. He's crazy and the life of the party, so when we go out, the pressure is off me (since I'm extremely introverted and detest being the center of attention.)

I love to talk to him at the end of the day, whether I'm excited or sad or pissed off. He's good at understanding exactly how I feel, listening to me, coming up with solutions to problems, etc. Without him I sometimes think I'd be off the deep end.

I sometimes get frustrated with the S vs. N thing, since sometimes he seems a little "ADD" to me and hates to sit still and discuss abstract concepts, which I love. However, I have other friends and the Internet for that. Or, for example, if we visit a concert together, I tend to experience it in a deep, personal, symbolic way, while he's just kind of like, "Cool. Fun. Let's do that again sometime." Kind of annoying. But he does recognize my need to be alone, to write, to work on my music, etc. and even if he doesn't fully get my mindset going into those things, he gives me ample room to do what I need to do.

I usually come up with the nutty ideas, like, "Hey, let's get chickens!" and then he figures out how to actually get stuff done, like finding scrap wood and building a little coop. Without him, I'd just end up with a lot of nutty ideas and not much else.

I think we've learned to work well together. I really feel like he protects me from the world -- not because I'm a girl, but just because of the way our personalities are.

 

[Matthew_Z]

Those who speak of judging and perceiving dichotomies speak of Jung, Keirsey, or Myers-Briggs. If you think socionics applies those terms you are mistaken.

The (Jungian, 1st tier) Socionics Dichotomies are as follows:
Introversion/ Extraversion
Sensing (or sensory)/ Intuition
Ethics/ Logic
Irrational/ Rational

While those are the standard names for the dichotomies, Ethics/ Logic can also be known as Feeling/ Thinking, and Irrational/ Rational can be known Perceiving/ Judging. These less commonly heard aliases are occasionally used, especially when comparing or referencing Socionics with other systems such as Jung's and the Myers-Briggs.

Naturally, Ethics/ Logic is referred to as Feeling/ Thinking more than Irrational/ Rational is to Perceiving/ Judging simply because Jung himself (argued to be a forefather of Socionics) called the functions Feeling and Thinking, while Judging/Perceiving is used in systems developed after Jung, notably MBTI.

 

[BlackCat]

...

That sounds GREAT! I personally would love an ESTP of my own. Congrats on finding someone good for you!

 

[Wiley45]

I didn't know it was supposed to be a good match. LOL. I've been chuckling about that all day. But yeah, I would gladly hope for you to find the same! It's pretty great.