• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

ent/fj and Ni utilization

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
I would like to start a thread on how to strengthen and better utilize Ni in types who supposedly have it as a second function. Anybody find any methods for accomplishing this? I am more interested in what you have actually done that works then in an untried theory. Types other than enj are also welcome to comment.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
This might not be to the degree of specificity that you want, but in short, just try to fight your natural desire to make immediate decisions about things. Study INTJs! Watch how they do basically the same things as you but spend more time "in the tank" considering all their options than they do actually interacting with the outer world...but when they do interact with the outer world, they're decisively getting stuff done and rather resemble ENTJs.

I know it's important to get your goals and priorities organized, but the fundamental difference between you and INTJs is that they're better at Ni and you're better at Te, so if you study each other you'll both improve.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
engineering strengthens Ni? How so? I've always thought of engineering as more of a Ti thing but that is only based off of the engineers I know.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
This might not be to the degree of specificity that you want, but in short, just try to fight your natural desire to make immediate decisions about things. Study INTJs! Watch how they do basically the same things as you but spend more time "in the tank" considering all their options than they do actually interacting with the outer world...but when they do interact with the outer world, they're decisively getting stuff done and rather resemble ENTJs.

I know it's important to get your goals and priorities organized, but the fundamental difference between you and INTJs is that they're better at Ni and you're better at Te, so if you study each other you'll both improve.

That is good advice simulated. Thanks. Now I just need to find me some INTJ. They are hard fuckers to pin down.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Spend a lot of time alone. ;) That's what worked for me. Yes before you decide on something, think of the possibilities/ perspectives. You could spend like a half-hour going inside your head daily like an exercise.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
Yeah I really need to work on that alone thing. Although there are generally very few people whos company I truly enjoy I can't seem to be alone for too long without getting lethargic and mind-numbed. My best alone time is when i am diligently studying something I am extremely interested in. Any pointers on what to do during the alone time P. I know that sounds pitiful but I am serious.
 

professor goodstain

New member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
1,785
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7~7
engineering strengthens Ni? How so? I've always thought of engineering as more of a Ti thing but that is only based off of the engineers I know.

Ni strengthens engineering:) i do like the direction this thread suggests. By that i mean-suggests to me. After making my own internal interpretation of the OP of course. i'm not being sarcastic either. My Ni suggested to me that those first 4 sentences could have a sarcastic underlying meaning to their readers, which compelled me to write the 5th sentence.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Yeah I really need to work on that alone thing. Although there are generally very few people whos company I truly enjoy I can't seem to be alone for too long without getting lethargic and mind-numbed. My best alone time is when i am diligently studying something I am extremely interested in. Any pointers on what to do during the alone time P. I know that sounds pitiful but I am serious.
How about this? Pick a subject a you are really interested in and think of as many perspectives/angles on it as you possibly can. Play devil's advocate in your mind. Debate yourself. Ex. If you had a strong opinion on abortion, besides your opinion, what do the religious people say? What do the democrats say? How about the republicans? What is the medical field's agenda? This is what Ni does for me. While you do this, listen to music, watch some tv, have a ball in your hand, or play an easy video/ computer game. It may help if you engage in a slight Se activity to alleviate being completely lethargic/numbminded in your alone time. I hope this helps.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
How about this? Pick a subject a you are really interested in and think of as many perspectives/angles on it as you possibly can. Play devil's advocate in your mind. Debate yourself. Ex. If you had a strong opinion on abortion, besides your opinion, what do the religious people say? What do the democrats say? How about the republicans? What is the medical field's agenda? This is what Ni does for me. While you do this, listen to music, watch some tv, have a ball in your hand, or play an easy video/ computer game. It may help if you engage in a slight Se activity to alleviate being completely lethargic/numbminded in your alone time. I hope this helps.

Is this really all we get from Ni P. I'm not being sarcastic and I do appreciate your response it is just that I do all of that stuff without thinking. I almost immediately can see a situation from multiple perspectives and can understand how they were reached. Possibly I'm wanting more from Ni than it is capable of. It is just that when you read a description of it from an Ni dominant perspective it seems so much more insightful and useful. Maybe I'm just being greedy. :doh:
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm not exactly sure what Ni is supposed to do. The description on cognitive processes was kind of vague.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Introverted iNtuition (Ni)

* Foreseeing
* Conceptualizing
* Understanding complex patterns
* Synthesizing and symbolizing
* Future

"This is how it will be."
"Aha, that's it!"

When Ni is a preferred process...

* You usually feel a certainty about what is going to happen, often without much detail and without being able to trace the actual data that would support the prediction.
* You focus on "what will be."
* You are energized by transformational visions of how someone can grow or of a completely original approach to get there.
* You are drawn to make those visions manifest.
* Frequently you experience flashes of insight that present themselves as very broad themes and complex whole patterns or systems of thought without being triggered by external events.
* Inner images come as a knowing that taps into universal symbols and with a certainty that they are true.

Introverted Intuiting is about Seeking Insights and Meanings

It focuses on:

* Identifying underlying meaning
* Identifying the inter-relatedness of data
* Synthesizing the information to reveal the "golden nuggets"

Its approach is to:

* Just state how or what action to take
* Rely on insight to develop vision for the future
* Envision without the need for tangible support

Introverted Intuiting's verbal communications are delivered in absolutes with a quest for meaning, i.e.:

* "Why?"
* Identifying the hidden meaning
* States what is going on behind the scenes

Introverted Intuiting's nonverbal cues are: reflective, serious, and confident; may appear complex, disengaged; could appear hesitant to respond.

To build rapport with introverted Intuiting, we can try:

* Providing a theoretical framework
* Using symbolic, conceptual language
* Relating concrete experience to theories
* Asking them to show you how they made their connections
* Asking for the long-term vision
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
Introverted iNtuition (Ni)

* Foreseeing
* Conceptualizing
* Understanding complex patterns
* Synthesizing and symbolizing
* Future

"This is how it will be."
"Aha, that's it!"

When Ni is a preferred process...

* You usually feel a certainty about what is going to happen, often without much detail and without being able to trace the actual data that would support the prediction.
* You focus on "what will be."
* You are energized by transformational visions of how someone can grow or of a completely original approach to get there.
* You are drawn to make those visions manifest.
* Frequently you experience flashes of insight that present themselves as very broad themes and complex whole patterns or systems of thought without being triggered by external events.
* Inner images come as a knowing that taps into universal symbols and with a certainty that they are true.

Introverted Intuiting is about Seeking Insights and Meanings

It focuses on:

* Identifying underlying meaning
* Identifying the inter-relatedness of data
* Synthesizing the information to reveal the "golden nuggets"

Its approach is to:

* Just state how or what action to take
* Rely on insight to develop vision for the future
* Envision without the need for tangible support

Introverted Intuiting's verbal communications are delivered in absolutes with a quest for meaning, i.e.:

* "Why?"
* Identifying the hidden meaning
* States what is going on behind the scenes

Introverted Intuiting's nonverbal cues are: reflective, serious, and confident; may appear complex, disengaged; could appear hesitant to respond.

To build rapport with introverted Intuiting, we can try:

* Providing a theoretical framework
* Using symbolic, conceptual language
* Relating concrete experience to theories
* Asking them to show you how they made their connections
* Asking for the long-term vision

Good stuff jag. Thanks
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Thanks Jaguar.

Frank: For me at least its a fairly natural mode of processing information. From the description I've just read, that mode of thought is generally engaged when Im working in an area that Im very familiar with. In those cases I've acquired so much information on the subject that its very readily understood in terms of its fundamental components, and being able to extrapolate the trajectory indicated. Ive always thought of it as being able to "call a pitch". I think this is pretty accessible: basically it just takes a lot of studying and repetition.

I think if I struggle with any tertiary function it'd be Fi. Its such a quiet and instinctual reaction that its easy to discount, but I almost always regret it because its generally right. I think that it takes a stillness to master that one that might not be easy for a enxj.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
More or less, for an ENXJ to spend more time with Ni, you need just to step away from the Se, just put it down, man, just take it easy, no one's going to hurt you today!

A quiet place, a few moments of peace, close your eyes, drift off into dream.

But you don't want to do that, really. I'm just saying, there's terrible--I don't know what you call them, I just call them "things"--there's terrible "things" down there. No, it's really better to leave them alone. They have this awful, hungry desire to get out and... and... like, grow? I think they want to become real, y'know? Like bursting through into this world? It's really better to just leave them alone.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
Thanks Jaguar.

Frank: For me at least its a fairly natural mode of processing information. From the description I've just read, that mode of thought is generally engaged when Im working in an area that Im very familiar with. In those cases I've acquired so much information on the subject that its very readily understood in terms of its fundamental components, and being able to extrapolate the trajectory indicated. Ive always thought of it as being able to "call a pitch". I think this is pretty accessible: basically it just takes a lot of studying and repetition.

I think if I struggle with any tertiary function it'd be Fi. Its such a quiet and instinctual reaction that its easy to discount, but I almost always regret it because its generally right. I think that it takes a stillness to master that one that might not be easy for a enxj.

The bolded portion rings true to me. So would this be an example of Ni?:

Not too long ago a couple of friends and I were touring this building that we were considering purchasing, subdividing and then reselling. Inevitably the question came up about which types of businesses would want to purchase the particular units. Immediately I stated three very different and not too mainstream businesses that would love these units. The next day when we were talking to the owner it turned out that those three types of businesses were in fact interested and had made inquiries.

I think this relates to what you were saying Rex because I have self-studied so many various aspects of business and investing for so long that sometimes I just know how things will develop with very little obvious external data. Ni?
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Inevitably the question came up about which types of businesses would want to purchase the particular units. Immediately I stated three very different and not too mainstream businesses that would love these units. The next day when we were talking to the owner it turned out that those three types of businesses were in fact interested and had made inquiries.

That is definitely Ni.
I do that all the time in business and take it for granted.
It's as if you know without knowing.
You know?
:D
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think this relates to what you were saying Rex because I have self-studied so many various aspects of business and investing for so long that sometimes I just know how things will develop with very little obvious external data. Ni?

Yep. Believe so. For me the problem comes with over thinking an issue. Seems to dilute the force.



That is definitely Ni.
I do that all the time in business and take it for granted.
It's as if you know without knowing.
You know?

:D

Truth.
 
Top