Planning, deciding and J

[Ghost of the dead horse]

As to the concept of J, we find two often mentioned activities: planning and deciding.

As much as the planning gets associated with J, much planning is done by the real-life P architect, urban planner and the civil engineer. Much planning is done by the WoW Raid player, someone constructing their newest home computer, and anyone trying to finish half triathlon with killer time. Greatly P sport players practice and plan their moves tirelessly. Or, you could argue they never "plan" - what do they do, then?

Decisions, what are they? Deciding where to eat? What education to take? What purchase to make? Can we then imagine a "decisive" person who decides where to eat each and every time, expresses their firm assurance over the education they've recently started, and saves money to make expensive purchases? Doesn't everybody do something, and aren't actions a consequence of some kind of a decision, forced or natural?

In MBTI-talk, is "decisive" just someone who intrudes others with their decisions? Or is it someone who declares their decision on something, and appears to keep his/her mind about it? Is it someone who maintains their stated goals despite opposition?

What do you make of these concepts?

Could they be made less ill-defined?

 

[Matthew_Z]

I'll keep this short and to-the-point:

In MBTI, J/P determines the extroverted function. In the case of Js, the J function is extroverted. (and, conversely, the perceiving function is introverted) The combination of Je-Pi is more inclined to "hammer things down" than Ji-Pe. In my opinion, the perceiving function is more critical in determining how much of a "decider" a type is. The extroverted perceiving functions will thrive on the basis of a plethora of input, (options that could kept open) while the introverted perceiving functions do not have as much of a need for this input. Concordantly, one with a P type will tend to keep options open and explore possibilities, as is the nature of their perceiving function. Ergo, Ps are more naturally inclined to only reduce options when such a course of action is of the utmost necessity.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

That's curious, because most of the people in here take the question of J/P mostly as one of the judging function.

It's logical for one to act faster if they're faster to prune options, of if they are more content in the decision process with less of a data to start with. Those individuals with strong Si and Ni would then resort to using their past perceptions and decisions as a bigger part of their decisions, and as the history has been made already, there's less of variables to handle, and decisions come faster.

So, what are decisions?

 

[Quinlan]

I'd like to learn more about how the Ji functions work, are all the stereotypical "J" things directed towards the inner world in Ps? Does a Je type desire structure/closure in the outer world and the Ji type desire structure/closure in the inner world?

Is this a thread highjack? Perhaps I should start another thread...

 

[Asterion]

There are two separate concepts here, 1. planning things and 2. making decisions.

1. Judgers: Will have a more precise idea of what they want to do, and prefer to follow through with it to completion.

Percievers: Will make sketchy plans without filling in The details, they have a rough idea of what they're doing, and as a result often do something completely unexpected, even by them. These are the kind of people that will suddenly decide to become a truckdriver when they have a PhD in neurobiology

2. Judgers: In making decisions, prefer to have an answer for the sake of having an answer, I'm not too sure about the extent of this though, It seems to me like Js can be just as indecisive as Ps, or perhaps even more, it probably depends upon the choice being made

Perceivers: Prefer to keep their options open as much as possible, and gather more information before making a decision, doesn't mean that they can't make quick decisions though, I've seen ISFJs unable to pick between 2 different directions, whereas I'll come through and pick instantaneously. This kind of make me wonder where people are getting their information from...

 

[yenom]

If you don't know the differenece between P and J, then you are probably in between

J: develop one way and follow that way to rome, write down instructions about what to do what steps to take to avoid getting lost
P:believe all roads will end in rome, gets lost, but finds his way there eventually.
Might take alot more time, but learns some valuable lessons on the way.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Nooo always when I start a thread about something, I make it seem I don't know something at all. My fault.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Ok I'll clear it up I was interested in how certain vocabulary - words planning and deciding in particular - are used both to describe theory and to explain observations. I was worried how there was ambiguity as to the meaning of the word, possibly justifying any type diagnosis with the notion that they (don't) plan, or they (don't) decide a lot.

I have seen a lot of use of those words. Now I'd like to know what I have really learned from people's ideas of type; I need a word definition from you, people in this forum. You've used it. A dictionary reference isn't going to help me here.

I want to hear what you regard as a "plan".

What I know of "plans" already is that they are supposedly some kinds of estimations or intellectual or informational preparations that are done in advance of some task, real or expected.

Now what would be an example of a plan, and what wouldn't be? If I were to type people according to how much they plan, I'd have to know what constitutes a plan. There must have been a mental picture in your (everyone's) mind of what is clearly a plan, what is a borderline plan, what's a big plan, what's a normal plan, what's not much of a plan and what's not plan at all.

Same goes for decisions.

 

[nightning]

I'm a J and I don't like the way planning, organization and deciding is used in the inventory.

The "planning" sort of J in my mind is in mapping out the process to get from A to B. Planning doesn't need to be so-call "systematic" and linear (although that's the typical description associated with the concept). My route of getting to point B usually seems wacked out to a typical SJ, but make no mistake about it... I plot my course. I guess it's the desire to reach the outcome as effectively as possible that drives this so call "planning". Perhaps that'll make a better description for J vs P than the term "plan".

Decisions... a decision point is sort of like a "go-no go" check point. Have you acquired sufficient information to get to work or is more research necessary? But how long we've spend in the data collection phrase isn't exactly what distinguish J and P in my mind. Is rather how we handle the decision point that differentiates the two. Js tend to use an an "all or none" check point whereas Ps tend to use a sliding scale check point. A P will modify decision parameters on the fly where as a J tend to stop and re-evaluate everything anytime new information comes in. At least this is the difference I noticed between Ni dominant INXJs and Ne dominant ENXPs.

 

[proteanmix]

The only thing I can say about my introverted perceiving function is I view information gathering as being in a scrap yard and I'm specifically looking for certain things. I do more sorting through the info and I'm choosy about what I take in. To me it's like having a sieve but it does not mean it closes, it just means I'm looking with higher specificity or magnification. The information does tend to be more confirmatory in nature, but when I think I'm not being open enough I do a 180 and look for specific information to contradict what I suspect. I think that may be the planning aspect you mention (how I look for info) and the deciding factor (how finely I set my filter). I don't feel like I like to have my options closed, I personally like lots of information and options so I can choose one.

When I don't want to make a decision about something I let fate make the decision for me because I don't feel like I have the right information or my data flow is corrupted somehow and I don't know how to get the information that would help me make a decision. That's when I feel information overload and stop taking in information, almost like willful ignorance.

As for the deciding factor, I'm really beginning to find out how often people think my mind is settled on something but it's not but it comes out sounding final.

 

[Frank]

I think my estp friend summed it up best last time we hit a drive thru.
He stated that I always know ahead of time what I am going to do, in this case what I would order, whereas he decides in the moment.

Te by nature is the simplest form of logic and decision making. In it's most basic form it thinks in steps and cause and affect and usually has decisions worked out many steps down the road. That is why many of us who have not developed our second functions sufficiently can seem mildly retarded. I am joking a little but without some Ni or Si thrown in for perspective, we can totally lack any form of creativity whatsoever.

 

[yenom]

The whole problem with the Ps is that they don't understand the Js - Page 2 - INTP Central

Good explanation about the difference between P and J from someone in intp central.

 

[INTJ123]

As to the concept of J, we find two often mentioned activities: planning and deciding.

As much as the planning gets associated with J, much planning is done by the real-life P architect, urban planner and the civil engineer. Much planning is done by the WoW Raid player, someone constructing their newest home computer, and anyone trying to finish half triathlon with killer time. Greatly P sport players practice and plan their moves tirelessly. Or, you could argue they never "plan" - what do they do, then?

Decisions, what are they? Deciding where to eat? What education to take? What purchase to make? Can we then imagine a "decisive" person who decides where to eat each and every time, expresses their firm assurance over the education they've recently started, and saves money to make expensive purchases? Doesn't everybody do something, and aren't actions a consequence of some kind of a decision, forced or natural?

In MBTI-talk, is "decisive" just someone who intrudes others with their decisions? Or is it someone who declares their decision on something, and appears to keep his/her mind about it? Is it someone who maintains their stated goals despite opposition?

What do you make of these concepts?

Could they be made less ill-defined?

You've taken it too far, it's just a preference of behavior, if you are labeled a J doesn't mean you are in no way P, it means you prefer to use J function more often than P. I'm 51/49 here myself, I only label myself an intj because when I was younger I was alot heavier in the J department.