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MBTI and the Four Temperaments (Humors)

Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
170
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Is there any correlation? I would assume that I corresponds to melancholy and E corresponds to sanguine while J corresponds to choleric and P to phlegmatic. But, looking at my own personality (ISTJ - Melancholy Phlegmatic), I think it's more complicated than that.
 

lastrailway

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Aug 11, 2007
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508
Yes, there is:
Sanguine (Blood): SP
Choleric (Yellow bile): NF
Melancholic (Black bile): NT
Phlegmatic (Phlegm): SJ

EDIT: the correlations are indeed more complicated, but this generalisation might give an image
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
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3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
Yes, there is:
Sanguine (Blood): SP
Choleric (Yellow bile): NF
Melancholic (Black bile): NT
Phlegmatic (Phlegm): SJ

EDIT: the correlations are indeed more complicated, but this generalisation might give an image
ENTJ, a Melancholic?
Come on.
 

Lookin4theBestNU

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
801
MBTI Type
ENFj
Enneagram
2w3
In PUMII Keirsey lays out the 4 temperaments of who they are in regards. (I'm going from memory so I hope it's right ;))
SJs melancholic
NTs phlegmatic
NFs choleric
SPs sanguine
 

htb

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A test brought to the forum's attention a few months ago worked along the lines of the humorous interpretation of temperament. It's one that I, oddly enough, bumped yesterday (unless this was motivated by its return).
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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BELF
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sx/sp
Is there any correlation? I would assume that I corresponds to melancholy and E corresponds to sanguine while J corresponds to choleric and P to phlegmatic. But, looking at my own personality (ISTJ - Melancholy Phlegmatic), I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't find the humors theory very useful, even with the alterations that were made to it by adding a secondary humor. It is based on archetypes that I do not believe are fully comprehensive/typical of the human condition. (It's like working with half of an Enneagram.)
 

cafe

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I think there is a difference between the LaHaye's interpretations of they humors and the original meanings, but I'm not certain.

If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
EXXP=Sanguine
EXXJ=Choleric
IXXP=Phlegmatic
IXXJ=Melancholic

Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.
 

The Ü™

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sp/sx
Jung's original functions were correlated as follows:

N: Sanguine
S: Melancholic
T: Choleric
F: Phlegmatic

Other definitions have correlated it like this:

S: Sanguine
T: Melancholic
F: Choleric
N: Phlegmatic

The second one, I feel, has the more spiritual outlook:

S comes first, and represents new beginnings that are not yet controlled and very irrational.

T stabilizes and categorizes, gives analytical definitions. It is rational.

F gives value to that which has been categorized. Hence, this particular rationality is also idealistic.

N represents transformation and higher knowledge. It is associated with the unconscious and mystery. It once again transcends the boundaries of rational thought.

After the first cycle is complete, S returns to apply N's insights, and the cycle is infinitely repeated.
 

htb

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LaHaye's, according to Cafe, makes more sense.

In application, particularly the context of this forum's related test, if extroversion is more than a question-specific measure of sociability, then Zhash and I would not be INTJs; and all self-described INTJs on this board that are in fact INTJs would not be Choleric/Melancholy.
 

cafe

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Someone might be able to break it down to, say two functions per humor, say Se/Ne for Sanguine, for instance. Unfortunately, I am not that good.
 

Usehername

On a mission
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Messages
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So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?

I regularly try to slot people into one of these categories, in an attempt to perceive people's biggest drives/needs.

(For instance, this site says this and I'm sure anyone can slot the four temperaments into his "color" naming system. It's the same.)
Core Needs and Motivations

Falt - Appreciating Differences Temperament Descriptions
I perhaps found this explanation of SJs most helpful in trying to understand my ISFJ mother. Even better than the ISFJ definitions. It just give me a more global perspective that's not as specific: I find the specific ones are sometimes too detailed for a broad view of where the person's coming from.
 

cafe

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So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?

I regularly try to slot people into one of these categories, in an attempt to perceive people's biggest drives/needs.

(For instance, this site says this and I'm sure anyone can slot the four temperaments into his "color" naming system. It's the same.)
Core Needs and Motivations

Falt - Appreciating Differences Temperament Descriptions
I perhaps found this explanation of SJs most helpful in trying to understand my ISFJ mother. Even better than the ISFJ definitions. It just give me a more global perspective that's not as specific: I find the specific ones are sometimes too detailed for a broad view of where the person's coming from.
I do, but I don't think MBTI temperaments correlate with humors temperaments particularly well.

Blue, for instance, does not strike me as Choleric and that is what it supposedly correlates to by most systems.
 

htb

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So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?
The alternative, used in several attempts at taxonomy, particularly a recent one by The_Liquid_Laser, is by theoretical dominant function; giving us ESxP, IxTP, INxJ and so on.
 

The Ü™

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The four temperaments also have a very diverse definition and are often made to fit the descriptions of other psychometric systems.

Another correlation I worked out was using strictly the irrational functions, in which case I get:

Sanguine: Se (xSxP or ESxx)
Melancholic: Si (xSxJ or ISxx)
Choleric: Ne (xNxP or ENxx)
Phlegmatic: Ni (xNxJ or INxx)

Temperament describes our core character, and that is based on how we instinctively see things. Therefore, T and F functions should be taken out of the equation, because those are functions of reason.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
170
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Yes, there is:
Sanguine (Blood): SP
Choleric (Yellow bile): NF
Melancholic (Black bile): NT
Phlegmatic (Phlegm): SJ

EDIT: the correlations are indeed more complicated, but this generalisation might give an image

See, based on my type and humors, this would kinda make sense by blending the two humors (melancholy and phlegmatic) to get ISNTJ

As for my husband (the only other person whose type I know well), it doesn't make so much sense. I'm pretty sure he's either PhlegMel or MelPhleg, but he's also an INFP. I can't see him being choleric, although I suppose other NF's could be.

Where does everyone seem to get the correlation between NF and choleric anyway?
 

cafe

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See, based on my type and humors, this would kinda make sense by blending the two humors (melancholy and phlegmatic) to get ISNTJ

As for my husband (the only other person whose type I know well), it doesn't make so much sense. I'm pretty sure he's either PhlegMel or MelPhleg, but he's also an INFP. I can't see him being choleric, although I suppose other NF's could be.

Where does everyone seem to get the correlation between NF and choleric anyway?
I think it's because we are very passionate about our values. We can go on idealistic crusades. But it's not the Type A kind of thing described by the LaHaye's when they talk about Cholerics.
 

wildcat

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1. (the maj.) melancholic phlegmatic.
2. (the min.) phlegmatic melancholic.
3. (a few) melancholic choleric.

EF
Sanguine choleric

ETP
Choleric sanguine

ENTJ
Choleric melancholic

ISFJ
Phlegmatic sanguine

ESFJ
Sanguine phlegmatic?

Hence INTP should be melancholic choleric.

Melancholic sanguine does not exist. Sanguine melancholic does not exist. How could they?

I am not sure of that INTP either. A melancholic choleric is a poet, a traveller of obscure places. An easy rider.
Well, not so easy.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
I think there is a difference between the LaHaye's interpretations of they humors and the original meanings, but I'm not certain.

If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
EXXP=Sanguine
EXXJ=Choleric
IXXP=Phlegmatic
IXXJ=Melancholic

Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.

This is similar to the correlation between the humors and MBTI. More specifically this is what I've found.

A) S and N play little to no role in determining the four humors.

B) Each person has all four humors, and they have them in a particular order. For example from strongest to weakest I am Phlegmatic, Sanguine, Choleric, Melancholic.

B) 8 of the MBTI types can be derived from a person's strongest humor:
ExFP = Sanguine
ExTJ = Choleric
IxTP = Phlegmatic
IxFJ = Melancholic

8 of the MBTI types can be derived from a person's weakest humor:
IxTJ = Sanguine
IxFP = Choleric
ExFJ = Phlegmatic
ExTP = Melancholic

Now remember I am saying the bottom 8 types only tell you what the person's weakest humor is. For example my weakest humor is Melancholic and I am ENTP. But for the strongest humor in an ENTP it could be Phlegmatic, Sanguine, or Choleric. Each person is different. Likewise an INFP would have Choleric as their weakest humor and an ISTJ would have Sanguine as their weakest, but the strongest type is going to vary for each of these persons.

For the top 8 types the opposite is true. The strongest humor is determined, but the order of the other three humors can vary from person to person.
 

wildcat

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Do you learn astronomy by studying astronomy? To an extent.
In the end, it is all about particle physics.
Do you learn the MBTI by studying the MBTI?
Open the windows.

In every function combination there is a rational and a non rational component.

The ESTJ is not a choleric. Never. An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.

Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Sanguine and phlegmatic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Study Fred. Learn from him.

He is modest. He is polite. He is humble. He is a light in the neural darkness.
 
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