MBTI and the Four Temperaments (Humors)

[usernameredacted]

An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.

That's impossible. I don't see how an ISTJ could be sanguine. Personally, as I've said before, I'm just the opposite - melancholy phlegmatic. And I find most Sanguines (or at least the "type" itself) to be very annoying.

Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Sanguine and phlegmatic some close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Can you explain this some? What exactly do you mean?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Do you learn astronomy by studying astronomy? To an extent.
In the end, it is all about particle physics.
Do you learn the MBTI by studying the MBTI?
Open the windows.

In every function combination there is a rational and a non rational component.

The ESTJ is not a choleric. Never. An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.

Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Sanguine and phlegmatic some close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

Study Fred. Learn from him.

He is modest. He is polite. He is humble. He is a light in the neural darkness.

It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

Sanguine = Happy
Choleric = Angry
Phlegmatic = Calm
Melancholic = Sad

Of these four adjectives, calm does not describe the ESTJ. It very well describes the IxTP. Angry on the other hand does describe the ESTJ, much more than most other types.

 

[usernameredacted]

It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

Sanguine = Happy
Choleric = Angry
Phlegmatic = Calm
Melancholic = Sad

I think of it more as melancholy-sanguine being a basic scale of sad to happy as you said and phlegmatic-choleric being a scale of laid-back/lazy to bossy and obsessed with accomplishing things or whatnot.

 

[wildcat]

That's impossible. I don't see how an ISTJ could be sanguine. Personally, as I've said before, I'm just the opposite - melancholy phlegmatic. And I find most Sanguines (or at least the "type" itself) to be very annoying.



Can you explain this some? What exactly do you mean?

Then it may be that you are not exactly an ISTJ.
More like an IXTJ I should think.
Also the fact that you write in here makes it all the more likely.
You are not a butterfly yet. You are a butterfly on the make?

About the other stuff I come back later. I do not yet know how to put the thing into words. Clumsy of me.

 

[usernameredacted]

Then it may be that you are not exactly an ISTJ.
More like an IXTJ I should think.
Also the fact that you write in here makes it all the more likely.
You are not a butterfly yet. You are a butterfly on the make?

About the other stuff I come back later. I do not yet know how to put the thing into words. Clumsy of me.

I am one who doesn't talk much but thinks alot... finds conversations like these interesting... I don't know. Just 'cause I write on here alot... it's different... This has always been my preferred method of communication...

 

[wildcat]

It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

Sanguine = Happy
Choleric = Angry
Phlegmatic = Calm
Melancholic = Sad

Of these four adjectives, calm does not describe the ESTJ. It very well describes the IxTP. Angry on the other hand does describe the ESTJ, much more than most other types.

Exactly.
And here is the crux.
The ESTJ appears angry only because he is not of a choleric temperament. He vents his spleen on a regular basis. Therefore his is never loaded up by anger.

The choleric, on the other hand is terrifying when he gets mad.
And the melancholic is even madder when the eruption finally takes place.

We cholerics and melancholics express a nasty streak.
Not often, though.

 

[wildcat]

I think of it more as melancholy-sanguine being a basic scale of sad to happy as you said and phlegmatic-choleric being a scale of laid-back/lazy to bossy and obsessed with accomplishing things or whatnot.

A sound estimation.
You grasp the basics.

It is very simple. There is the continuum A and the continuum B.
The axis X and the axis Y.

And the rest is a child's play. Add a third dimension and you get the temperaments and the sixteen types.

You can figure it out yourself.

It is remarkably odd they do not get it.
They hover in between the lines without marking the lines.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Exactly.
And here is the crux.
The ESTJ appears angry only because he is not of a choleric temperament. He vents his spleen on a regular basis. Therefore his is never loaded up by anger.

The choleric, on the other hand is terrifying when he gets mad.
And the melancholic is even madder when the eruption finally takes place.

We cholerics and melancholics express a nasty streak.
Not often, though.

See I know now that we are using different definitions. My definition is based on outward appearances and characteristics that a person displays with regular frequency. A choleric can actually be quite content on the inside even if they often appear angry. A sanguine on the other hand might often appear happy but on the inside feel alone and empty. A melancholic might appear sad outwardly, but be glad on the inside.

The melancholic and choleric are not condemned to a miserable life any more than a phlegmatic and sanguine are predetermined to an easy life. These are simply common outward characteristics.

 

[wildcat]

See I know now that we are using different definitions. My definition is based on outward appearances and characteristics that a person displays with regular frequency. A choleric can actually be quite content on the inside even if they often appear angry. A sanguine on the other hand might often appear happy but on the inside feel alone and empty. A melancholic might appear sad outwardly, but be glad on the inside.

The melancholic and choleric are not condemned to a miserable life any more than a phlegmatic and sanguine are predetermined to an easy life. These are simply common outward characteristics.

Yes. In the end it all boils down to semantics. No objection there.

Is it not strange that you and Shimpei have the same temperament.. she is an ISFJ.

According to your definition Marilyn Monroe (INTP) was a sanguine then. Even when she pulled out the happy face everybody could see she was miserable.

She was abused by the doctors and the politicians and finally killed. You are right. She was not exactly predetermined to an easy life.

In my books she was a melancholeric choleric.
In her nature = the interior part.

The playground of psychopathology.

 

[The Ü™]

Sanguine: Se (xSxP or ESxx)
Melancholic: Si (xSxJ or ISxx)
Choleric: Ne (xNxP or ENxx)
Phlegmatic: Ni (xNxJ or INxx)

Okay, according to OneIshy, the temperaments are described as this:

Sanguine: The Extrovert | The Talker | The Optimist
Melancholic: The Introvert | The Thinker | The Pessimist
Choleric: The Extrovert | The Doer | The Optimist
Phlegmatic: The Introvert | The Watcher | The Pessimist

I'd say that they do correspond to S and N functions, but only here:

Sanguine: Ne
Melancholic: Ni
Choleric: Se
Phlegmatic: Si

 

[htb]

Bravo to the exegesis, and those responsible for it.

It's personally valuable inasmuch as the humors, in conjunction with the Enneagram and the Big Five, categorize me much more accurately than does MBTI.

 

[Shimpei]

EXXP=Sanguine
EXXJ=Choleric
IXXP=Phlegmatic
IXXJ=Melancholic

I tend to agree with this breaking down of the temperaments.

 

[wildcat]

I tend to agree with this breaking down of the temperaments.

Nonsense.

You can see your personal description.
It does not fit, see?

 

[TaylorS]

I'm a Melancholy INTP

 

[wildcat]

Have these people taken their descriptions from
the Shimpei thread?

It is not the fault of Shimpei.. she has been deceived.

This is all wrong, guys. I am sorry.

The test is an awful mess. I checked it out.
The appellations there are not in agreement with standard psychology.



As I said, it is not Shimpei's fault. She could not have known they are a such a mess.

Forget the results you have received. They have nothing to do with anything.

 

[The Ü™]

Isn't the correlation between the MBTI and KTS something like 85 percent or so?

If that's the case, then I think that the humors upon which the KTS is based most definitely have some correlation with MBTI types.

The trouble is that the four humors have slight changes in description of representative traits depending on what system is being used.

 

[truthseeker]

MBTI and Four Temperaments correlations

Hi guys,

I worked out a system for correlating MBTI types with the Four Temperaments.

Each temperament combination can correlate to two MBTI types, always one Thinking and one Feeling.

Mel-Chol = INFJ or INTJ
Chol-Mel = ENFJ or ENTJ
Mel-Phleg = INFP or INTP
Phleg-Mel = ISFJ or ISTJ
Phleg-San = ISFP or ISTP
San-Phleg = ESFP or ESTP
Chol-San = ENFP or ENTP
San-Chol = ESFJ or ESTJ

I associated "EN" always with choleric, "ES" always with sanguine, "IS" always with phlegmatic, and "IN" always with melancholic. "N" is associated with cholerics and melancholics because these temperaments are drawn toward "intuition," which plays out rationally or poetically. "S" for sensing is associated with sanguines and phlegmatics as the two more light-hearted, less serious and less mind-oriented temperaments. Obviously, "E" belongs with cholerics and sanguines, the extroverted temperaments, and "I" for introverted with melancholics and phlegmatics.

A person is either "perceiving" (P) or "judging (J) on account of their secondary temperament. I associated "J" with cholerics and melancholics, as the judgmental/critical temperaments, and "P" with sanguines and phlegmatics, as the perceiving temperaments. Thus a melancholic-choleric, for example, will be "IN" on account of being melancholic, and "J" on account of being secondarily choleric. The "T" or "P" is up for grabs.

SO, I pretty much agree with whoever said that...
melancholics are IxxJ
cholerics are ExxJ
phlegmatics are IxxP
sanguines are ExxP

...because I believe that an IxxJ will always be either primarily or secondarily melancholic, a ExxJ will always be primarily or secondarily a choleric, and so on.

 

[Eric B]

This ended right before I arrived here (a year and two days ago!), and it should have my take on how the systems fit together: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...6956-five-temperaments-test-2.html#post345186

The two four temperament matrices are basically "temperament" and Interaction Style. The IJ/IP/EJ/EP group does work on the N side, but on the S side, it's IT/IF/ET/EF.

 

[seagypsy]

Hi everyone!
I'm a Sanguine ENFP.

 

[Eric B]

Yeah; ENFP is either Sanguine-Phlegmatic or Sanguine-Supine.
Which ENFPh member is this? (Welcome!)