INTJs given an unfair advantage in public schools?

[Apollanaut]

In the early years, school favours Si's ability to accurately store and remember facts. SJ types also like to conform to expectations, so generally do well at this stage. As learning becomes more abstract and theoretical, Ne and Ni come into their own, for their ability to see the big picture and quickly grasp concepts and understand new ideas.

I read somewhere that NP types are more likely to score highly on tests for giftedness and aptitude but NJ types tend to do better academically, as they are good at focusing on the requirements of an assignment or exam. NP types are more likely to get distracted, go off on tangents or lose interest, which cancels out their initial advantage.

At higher levels of education, Introverts tend to do better at exams as they are find it easier than E's to study and read for long periods of time.

The upshot of this is that, all else being equal, INTJs and INFJs may have an advantage over other types in the education system, particularly at higher levels. I think it was Isabel Briggs-Myers herself who wrote that INFJs may actually do better at school and college than INTJs, as they have a strong need to please the teacher, or may be more naturally gifted with language. INTJs independent nature may work against them at times, as they do not have the same desire to please. Also they do not suffer fools gladly - an incompetent teacher may bring out the worst in them. Further, an INTJ who sees little value in a subject will not bother to exert themselves, whereas an INFJ may do the opposite if they like the teacher.

This certainly sits well with my own experiences. I did extremely well at both school and university, despite sometimes feeling less intelligent than my many INTP and INTJ friends. Although they were able to grasp complex theory more rapidly than I could, and seemed to have a deeper understanding of many subjects, they often couldn't be bothered to apply themselves to the tedium of coursework and exam study. It was like they already "knew" the stuff to their own satisfaction, so saw little need to prove this in writing.

 

[Athenian200]

Further, an INTJ who sees little value in a subject will not bother to exert themselves, whereas an INFJ may do the opposite if they like the teacher.

This certainly sits well with my own experiences. I did extremely well at both school and university, despite sometimes feeling less intelligent than my many INTP and INTJ friends. Although they were able to grasp complex theory more rapidly than I could, and seemed to have a deeper understanding of many subjects, they often couldn't be bothered to apply themselves to the tedium of coursework and exam study. It was like they already "knew" the stuff to their own satisfaction, so saw little need to prove this in writing.

Interesting. I noticed that I did really well in math when I had teachers I liked, but I did terrible when I got one that I didn't "get." I couldn't separate the work from my ability to relate to the teacher.

 

[Apollanaut]

I meant to add that SP types are at a disadvantage at every level of the education system. In the early years, they are supposed to sit still and listen quietly to their teachers for long periods of time - this is an almost impossible requirement for young SP types, who would far prefer to run around or play or at least be allowed to work with their hands and bodies. At higher levels of education it gets even worse - not only must they sit still and concentrate - the subject matter becomes more theoretical and abstract, which is the total opposite of the types of information which Se prefers.

My ISFP brother is at least as intelligent as I am, but school completely failed to engage him at all levels. However, out in the real world he discovered an aptitude for business systems and is now a highly paid (and ethical - Fi-dom) consultant for a large multinational company - earning far more money than I could ever dream of as a scientist.

 

[Apollanaut]

Interesting. I noticed that I did really well in math when I had teachers I liked, but I did terrible when I got one that I didn't "get." I couldn't separate the work from my ability to relate to the teacher.

Yeah I that happened to me throughout school, to the point where the subjects I took at the highest levels were the ones with the most consistently good standard of teaching, rather than the topics I would have preferred to study.

 

[Matthew_Z]

I read somewhere that NP types are more likely to score highly on tests for giftedness and aptitude but NJ types tend to do better academically

Amen. This describes my academic experience well. I was a professional test-taker, if you will. Work was very meh, but I never broke a sweat when it came time to take exams. I usually enjoyed them as they brought up my grade.

 

[Sniffles]

The upshot of this is that, all else being equal, INTJs and INFJs may have an advantage over other types in the education system, particularly at higher levels. I think it was Isabel Briggs-Myers herself who wrote that INFJs may actually do better at school and college than INTJs, as they have a strong need to please the teacher, or may be more naturally gifted with language. INTJs independent nature may work against them at times, as they do not have the same desire to please. Also they do not suffer fools gladly - an incompetent teacher may bring out the worst in them. Further, an INTJ who sees little value in a subject will not bother to exert themselves, whereas an INFJ may do the opposite if they like the teacher.

This certainly sits well with my own experiences. I did extremely well at both school and university, despite sometimes feeling less intelligent than my many INTP and INTJ friends. Although they were able to grasp complex theory more rapidly than I could, and seemed to have a deeper understanding of many subjects, they often couldn't be bothered to apply themselves to the tedium of coursework and exam study. It was like they already "knew" the stuff to their own satisfaction, so saw little need to prove this in writing.

My experience seems to have been the opposite. I was never a really good student in school. Once I got to college, I did considerably better in many areas, but I would still do poorly in many other courses. I don't consider myself that well of a student.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

In the early years, school favours Si's ability to accurately store and remember facts. SJ types also like to conform to expectations, so generally do well at this stage.

I wonder...is ability to store and remember facts really only Si? Because I can and could do this very well, but cognitive functions tests place my Si only slightly above Se, which is close to "unused." It could also be that the cognitive functions tests aren't very good and I use more Si than I think.

I read somewhere that NP types are more likely to score highly on tests for giftedness and aptitude but NJ types tend to do better academically, as they are good at focusing on the requirements of an assignment or exam.

I did well on both. Not trying to toot my own horn, just sayin'. Aptitude tests (such as the SAT, GRE, etc) are tied to how much you've learned anyway.

Yeah I that happened to me throughout school, to the point where the subjects I took at the highest levels were the ones with the most consistently good standard of teaching, rather than the topics I would have preferred to study.

I never focused on the teaching. I appreciate a good teacher as much as the next person, but I did well in courses because they were part of a larger goal.

 

[hommefatal]

School is way boring. At least if 75% of your teachers are SJs and there's only two intuitives.

 

[jenocyde]

I can take tests very well, and it was probably my only saving grace in grade school. I always forgot to do my homework and couldn't be bothered to go to class. But I took a mean test.

Yes, some tests are linked to how much you've learned, but for the most part, I have the ability to memorize something for as long as I need it and then promptly forget it the minute it is useless to me.

Also, I learned how to answer the questions - the knowledge was secondary.

 

[poppy]

However I would agree that textbooks are written with INTJ's in mind

I wouldn't know, since I pretty much never opened the textbook or did my homework. I guess high school wasn't hard for me, but it was tedious beyond belief. I think I got mostly B's, but in any class that required memorization I did pretty badly. I had to drop calc my senior year because I couldn't ever remember the equations/other bits of data I needed and subsequently failed almost every test (and this was the only class I ever even tried to study for, though admittedly I was not very dedicated).

Also they do not suffer fools gladly - an incompetent teacher may bring out the worst in them. Further, an INTJ who sees little value in a subject will not bother to exert themselves

Yeah, this was definitely the case in a lot of my classes. If an INTJ could be bothered to care about school I think they would naturally do very well, if the subjects aren't interesting enough though I think they'd be on par with other NTs (as having that J there to help you get things done isn't very helpful if you have no intention of doing them at all).

 

[avolkiteshvara]

You have to distinguish between University and elementary/middle/high school.

Two totally different animals.

 

[nozflubber]

I bet if you looked at it, the mean ESTJs GPA would pwn the mean INTJ's GPA. INTJs are often too smart for a lot of the routine work in HS and ignore great portions it, just like their smarter INTP cousin do!!

although, if you're talkign standardized tests..... yeah, INTJs are gods there!

 

[simulatedworld]

^ One day you're going to wake up alone, penniless and broken in an old rickety shack, and then you'll realize that for the last 50 years of your life, INTJs have been totally pwning you.

 

[mortabunt]

School is geared towards the ESTJ at the basic level. Regular dificulty classes have groupwork, and just require the students to digest the textbook. The teachers also require organization, which the ESTJ's often excell at. Finally, the mathematics requires structure and logic, which ESTJ's I know have a lot of, meaning that the basic level education is for ESTJ's. The honors and AP levels were pretty much invented for INTP's and INTJ's.

I second that notion.

 

[Saslou]

^ One day you're going to wake up alone, penniless and broken in an old rickety shack, and then you'll realize that for the last 50 years of your life, INTJs have been totally pwning you.

I think you must be referring to my ex (intj) there.
What a waste of a great mind. *tut*