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Why Are INTJs Sometimes Confused As Extraverts?

Recluse

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JivinJeff suggests that one's type around the ages of 10-15 probably is most indicative, before one develops the typical social guises. I was INTP in my approach to life; but I was very very isolated and lonely, and this came out both in writing and in music where I was seeking for those "intimate" feelings and looking for some sort of emotional connection.

Well, that would put me squarely in the INTP camp, then.

Which I think is why I developed this very introspective "Jane Eyre" or autobiographical/personal writing/artistic style, but it is all processed through a T filter. I learned to socialize through my writing.

I like the writing style of many INFPs precisely because of that sort of expressiveness.
 

Totenkindly

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I like the writing style of many INFPs precisely because of that sort of expressiveness.

Uh huh.

I do my best to write and create like an F... and to many people, it looks good... but then when I sit down and read something by an actual F, I feel like a sham. :( i just got done reading "Lucky" by Alice Sebold; I think she's an INFJ; and I don't know if I could ever equal her skills, I'm still coming from the "outside in" with that sort of approach, where she actually seems to "think in that style" from the start.

Then again, writing is judged on its own standards, isn't it? :)
 

htb

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That MMDI succeeds where many MBTI-based tests fail insofar as it draws results from literal, behavioral translations of Jungian gobbledygook.

As if I were to sign off because I NEED TO RELEASE EMOTIONS AND ACHIEVE A METAMORPHOSIS WHILE PULLING OFF RESULTS MERELY WITH MY FELT PRESENCE, as per the Cognitive Processes test.
 

Totenkindly

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That MMDI succeeds where many MBTI-based tests fail insofar as it draws results from literal, behavioral translations of Jungian gobbledygook.

I found it an interesting test. I'm just unsure as to exactly what it's evaluating, as it's comparing unlike things most of the time... and often they were things that I really felt I couldn't choose between -- like comparing apples and oranges.

It's like asking someone whether they like ice cream or reading -- and my answer would be "Yes." How could I possibly decide which one I liked "more"?
 

Wolf

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Find something we're interested in and it can be hard to get us to shut up.
It was an INTJ asking, I answered. I knew she (and any INTJ, like you) would understand.
 

Natrushka

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I found it an interesting test. I'm just unsure as to exactly what it's evaluating, as it's comparing unlike things most of the time... and often they were things that I really felt I couldn't choose between -- like comparing apples and oranges.

It's like asking someone whether they like ice cream or reading -- and my answer would be "Yes." How could I possibly decide which one I liked "more"?

If it's any consolation, Jennifer, I came out as an ISTP / INTP.

First. Time. Ever.
 

Llewellyn

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I had this idea, or rather question, today that INTJs seem compelled to take up an extraverted role. No conclusiveness yet...
(I've put this in my notes, even while I've taken up the effort to minimize those.)
 

skylights

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JivinJeff suggests that one's type around the ages of 10-15 probably is most indicative, before one develops the typical social guises.

that's very interesting. i would wager for girls that 10-12 is better, because girls, at least in my culture, start social cliquing quite early. not so sure about guys.

anyway - i agree about outward confidence/Te being mistaken for extraversion in INTJs. incidentally i believe an opposite thing often occurs with ENFPs... we're kind of in our heads to begin with and then combine that with uncertainty, and you get an extravert who looks like an introvert, eg skylights testing as an INFP for 6 years before figuring things out.
 

Thalassa

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I would agree on the confidence thing, and also maybe in social situations they can learn to rely as they get older on their ENTP shadow, or even go into that whole ESFP spike of the inferior thing on a bad day.

I don't know how someone would mistake an INTJ for an extrovert, though. Seriously. I've met...at least four INTJ males IRL....and only one of them seemed even vaguely ENTJ, and that was just vaguely.

The ENTJ male I know? MUCH MORE OBVIOUSLY EXTROVERTED.
 

Nicodemus

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I suspect this is another one of the threads that Usehername does not like anymore.
 

Zarathustra

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Along with the two reasons I mention below, I think the main reason why INTJs are sometimes confused as extroverts (this happens to me) is because we find utility in it.

We have our goals and ambitions, and we recognize (at an early age, in my case) that, in order to accomplish them, we need to learn to navigate the social realm.

Whether we ever accomplish this is a different question altogether, but this does explain why we can be confused with extroverts.

I would agree on the confidence thing...

I could agree with this.

...and also maybe in social situations they can learn to rely as they get older on their ENTP shadow, or even go into that whole ESFP spike of the inferior thing on a bad day.

These are both potential explanations, but they're actually the two least likely of the three most likely functional explanations.

The most likely scenario is that they just shift into their auxiliary (Te), or even into their auxiliary loop (Te+Se), when they need to extrovert.

I've met...at least four INTJ males IRL....and only one of them seemed even vaguely ENTJ, and that was just vaguely.

Who would that be?

The ENTJ male I know? MUCH MORE OBVIOUSLY EXTROVERTED.

Yes, and it tends to be obnoxiously so...
 

Thalassa

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that's very interesting. i would wager for girls that 10-12 is better, because girls, at least in my culture, start social cliquing quite early. not so sure about guys.

anyway - i agree about outward confidence/Te being mistaken for extraversion in INTJs. incidentally i believe an opposite thing often occurs with ENFPs... we're kind of in our heads to begin with and then combine that with uncertainty, and you get an extravert who looks like an introvert, eg skylights testing as an INFP for 6 years before figuring things out.

Oh huh uh...10-12 is still too young, IMO. The full development of the personality doesn't happen until at least high school. There are warnings against typing children who are too young.

BUT I think if I look at myself at 3 and 4 years old I see an ExxP personality...before my grandma died, before I started school...I was just boisterous and tap dancing on tables and trying to always get attention to myself. Many of my childhood photos, even in elementary school when I became a bit shyer, I always have this big huge goofy grin on my face, and I always loved to perform. I never minded sharing my opinions, either, if I was in an environment that I felt safe to do so, though I suffered social anxiety on and off I'd say starting around the time my grandmother died.

When I look back on myself at 12, I definitely see an ENFP - very giggly, very silly, doing weird things like standing on the hill at lunch time and swinging my purse back and forth, but very very assertive! Very boy crazy! I remember being a timid child (I was) but good lord I must have been obnoxious around 7th and 8th grade.

I think the best way to determine type is to look at your entire life instead of tryiing to base it on right now, or it certain situations. I ask myself, how do I think when I'm totally relaxed and nobody is watching me and expecting anything of me, when I'm comfortable in my own skin?

Also, one of my nick-names as a child was "motor mouth" and I remember people complaining in my teens and early twenties that I had this loud laugh (though some people like it). :smile:
 

Sunny Ghost

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This is true for me, and I've heard it mentioned multiple times. But I've never seen any good reasoning as to why they are sometimes perceived this way. I'm not shy at all and can be quite energetic and even loud around friends. I just really like alone time.

Ideas?

Many INTJs are very confident. Some people view all introverts as just shy. Some people might confuse that confidence with extroversion?

I had this idea, or rather question, today that INTJs seem compelled to take up an extraverted role. No conclusiveness yet...
(I've put this in my notes, even while I've taken up the effort to minimize those.)

My general opinion on this is that any time an introvert is using their extroverted function, i.e. Te, Se, Fe, it leads them to appear more extroverted than they actually are. Ne, might be about the only extroverted function where this might appear the opposite.

But once an INTJ gets into a mode where they are able to use Te, you'll hear a talkative and even debating introvert in extrovert mode. Plus, Te is an incredibly confident function when in the primary or auxiliary.

I'd even fight the same for an IxFJ, when using Fe. Especially, INFJ's. But the need to make others feel more comfortable may make one more chatty and down to earth, in that respect.

With ISxP's, it's the same when it comes to the Se functions. Se will lead us to rely on our impulses, be where the action is, go out to party and be adventurous, which will make us more extroverted as well.
 

Thalassa

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I think you can see it in their body language, as well.
 

Sunny Ghost

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Oh huh uh...10-12 is still too young, IMO. The full development of the personality doesn't happen until at least high school. There are warnings against typing children who are too young.

BUT I think if I look at myself at 3 and 4 years old I see an ExxP personality...before my grandma died, before I started school...I was just boisterous and tap dancing on tables and trying to always get attention to myself. Many of my childhood photos, even in elementary school when I became a bit shyer, I always have this big huge goofy grin on my face, and I always loved to perform. I never minded sharing my opinions, either, if I was in an environment that I felt safe to do so, though I suffered social anxiety on and off I'd say starting around the time my grandmother died.

When I look back on myself at 12, I definitely see an ENFP - very giggly, very silly, doing weird things like standing on the hill at lunch time and swinging my purse back and forth, but very very assertive! Very boy crazy! I remember being a timid child (I was) but good lord I must have been obnoxious around 7th and 8th grade.

I think the best way to determine type is to look at your entire life instead of tryiing to base it on right now, or it certain situations. I ask myself, how do I think when I'm totally relaxed and nobody is watching me and expecting anything of me, when I'm comfortable in my own skin?

Also, one of my nick-names as a child was "motor mouth" and I remember people complaining in my teens and early twenties that I had this loud laugh (though some people like it). :smile:
I disagree... perhaps I was just always oober sensitive... but I always felt as though the children were being clique-y even as young as 3rd and 4th grade. At least girls. From very early on, I felt out-casted.

I also do think it's possible to type children at a very young age. I was always quiet, shy and in my own head. People would ask my mother if I was mute... I was that quiet and introverted! However, my sister, an ESFJ, was always more outgoing, talkative, boisterous than me... always made friends easier, even at very early ages.
 

Thalassa

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I disagree... perhaps I was just always oober sensitive... but I always felt as though the children were being clique-y even as young as 3rd and 4th grade. At least girls. From very early on, I felt out-casted.

I also do think it's possible to type children at a very young age. I was always quiet, shy and in my own head. People would ask my mother if I was mute... I was that quiet and introverted! However, my sister, an ESFJ, was always more outgoing, talkative, boisterous than me... always made friends easier, even at very early ages.

Yeah which is why I noted that I think I seemed ExxP at least as a pre-schooler (I could even go as far as to say ExFP because of my love of pink and stuffed animals and "being a girl") but I exhibited traits at times that seem very INxx ...for example, I read ALL THE FREAKING TIME...(apparently I can still be mistaken as an INxx, maybe due to social anxiety, maybe due to normal ENFP-ness being "introverted extrovert" and some people are slightly idiotic and expect ENFPs to be more like ESFPs?) which is one of the reasons I felt compelled to note this certain expressiveness and boisterousness bordering sometimes on oblivious obnoxiousness intermittently throughout my life.
 

Sunny Ghost

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Yeah which is why I noted that I think I seemed ExxP at least as a pre-schooler (I could even go as far as to say ExFP because of my love of pink and stuffed animals and "being a girl") but I exhibited traits at times that seem very INxx ...for example, I read ALL THE FREAKING TIME...(apparently I can still be mistaken as an INxx, maybe due to social anxiety, maybe due to normal ENFP-ness being "introverted extrovert" and some people are slightly idiotic and expect ENFPs to be more like ESFPs?) which is one of the reason I felt compelled to note this certain expressiveness and boisterousness bordering sometimes on oblivious obnoxiousness intermittently throughout my life.

I would agree it's probably limited and nurture may have some effect... but I think a lot of our personality is nature, as well.

I also don't think sitting down to read is necessarily an indication of introversion over extroversion. People in general, especially children, have a high degree of imagination and desire to learn about the world around them.
However, a nothing different between me and my sister growing up, even at very young ages from 1st grade and up, was that my sister was always very studious. My parents had little difficulty getting her to do her homework. I suppose this is her working Si. For me, I was just as keen to want to learn about the world around me... but even at a very young age I had a more hands on approach (baby Se)... would rather learn and figure things out for myself. Getting me to read or do homework was more difficult. I'd rather go outside to play and experience.


Man, I feel like the queen of changing topics. Woops.
 

Thalassa

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Yeah, except that I read all the time, to exclusion of real life. Any extrovert can read a book, and even ESxx may love their fact-based knowledge, but I LIVED IN BOOKS and didn't even sit down to read them, I would actully walk around with a book sometimes...it was also very easy for me to keep myself entertained for stretches of time as a child, my grandparents didn't have to worry about me getting into anything as long as they gave me a book and/or paper and a pencil or pen.

Of course this is not to say I never did anything else - I liked to play outside, and play board games, and had friends...I don't mean to make it sound as if all I did was read, but it was more than average, and I actually got in trouble in school a few times for reading a novel in class.
 

skylights

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i also tend to think that type is solidified very early on, but i suppose that's another thread entirely.

building off what IndyAnna and uumlau said - Te would probably be the most "outgoing" seeming of the four extraverted functions, i would think. Fe is very social and can very effectively direct but Te in action is swift and in charge, particularly, i would imagine, when fueled by pinpointed Ni.
 
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