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Are intuitives more prone to perfectionism?

Snow Turtle

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Warning: Half baked idea.

Considering that perfectionism comes out from having expectations about the present moment or the future, and idealism is usually about producing expectations etc. It'd make sense that alot of people will be prone to becoming disappointed with this attitude. Several questions though:

a) Why are intuitives typically described as being focused on the future?
- Please no explanations like "It's Ni/Ne, therefore we are." but I don't mind using functions within the explanation.

b) What's perfectionism in an SP like?
- Though I sort of doubt there's any real negative correlation between being an SP and perfectionism. Imagine it'd be standard across most people. Confirmation SPs?

c) What's the motivation for wanting a better future?
- Nevermind answered my own question.
 

NewEra

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No, not really. The main Enneagram type for ISTJ is usually Type 1 - the Perfectionist. Don't see any other type more perfectionist than ISTJ.
 

Jeffster

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a) Why are intuitives typically described as being focused on the future?
- Please no explanations like "It's Ni/Ne, therefore we are." but I don't mind using functions within the explanation.

b) What's perfectionism in an SP like?
- Though I sort of doubt there's any real negative correlation between being an SP and perfectionism. Imagine it'd be standard across most people. Confirmation SPs?

a) Some on here have indicated their thoughts naturally project them backwards and forwards. And they can't stop thinking of possibilities related to what they are experiencing in the present, rather than actually focusing on the present experience. You can see this thread for some examples.

b) When I'm creating something, I want it to be right. I can get very upset, sometimes start over completely if it's not going how I want it to. This has occurred with writing lyrics, drawing, audio editing, web page designing, and even internet forum posts! (Just to name a few.)
 

Snow Turtle

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No, not really. The main Enneagram type for ISTJ is usually Type 1 - the Perfectionist. Don't see any other type more perfectionist than ISTJ.

The stereotype for SJs being security oriented would definitely mean that we are focused on future. In fact I don't think it's uncommon for SJs to worry about the future...

a) Some on here have indicated their thoughts naturally project them backwards and forwards. And they can't stop thinking of possibilities related to what they are experiencing in the present, rather than actually focusing on the present experience. You can see this thread for some examples.

The sort of thoughts naturally push them towards that? Hm. It's a case of "It just is." I'll have to check out that thread. Thanks Jeff.

b) When I'm creating something, I want it to be right. I can get very upset, sometimes start over completely if it's not going how I want it to. This has occurred with writing lyrics, drawing, audio editing, web page designing, and even internet forum posts! (Just to name a few.)

Yeah I figured it wouldn't be any different for SPs. How about perfectionism for the future? An ISFJ, I want it to be right because it might affect both how things are now and what will happen in the future. Does this hold true for you as well?
 

Virtual ghost

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Warning: Half baked idea.

Considering that perfectionism comes out from having expectations about the present moment or the future, and idealism is usually about producing expectations etc. It'd make sense that alot of people will be prone to becoming disappointed with this attitude. Several questions though:

a) Why are intuitives typically described as being focused on the future?
- Please no explanations like "It's Ni/Ne, therefore we are." but I don't mind using functions within the explanation.

b) What's perfectionism in an SP like?
- Though I sort of doubt there's any real negative correlation between being an SP and perfectionism. Imagine it'd be standard across most people. Confirmation SPs?

c) What's the motivation for wanting a better future?
- Nevermind answered my own question.

This is NTJ answer but this is the only thing I can relly offer.

Why are intuitives described as future oriented ?

Probably because we are future oriented.




But to be honest I would say that intuitives more none present oriented then they are future oriented. We are trying to understnd the whole context.
So we can't be focused on the world around us in many situations.
Plus we need a lot of time to think about things that are not around us. Since we need to understand and connect all the dot's.
What can take a while in some cases.

When I get lost in my head I can have "blackouts" over few hours.
I simply can't remember what I was doing phisically over that time.
I only know that I was thinking in a room and that is it.
But my understanding of somthing will be more complete or I will create a completly new concept.


Why better future ?
Because the future is the only thing on which you can have an effect.
(if we overlook chaos theory)
 

jenocyde

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You may have seen me around on the threads raving about how much I love working with ISTJs. It's because of their relentless thoroughness and perfectionism, which I also share.

I think for my ISTJ assistant, he is a perfectionist because he worries about his job security and his future.
I think I am a perfectionist because being thought of as incompetent or stupid is probably a fate worse than death. It's a pride thing.

I think I am thought of as future focused because I am always looking for new ways to streamline and fix things. And I can quickly visualize new projects. I have a really low attention span and I need to always feel like we are in constant motion. What's new and what's next are my 2 most often used questions. However, I've never once given serious thought to any aspect of my own personal future.

I think SJs as a whole are not thought of as future focused because they value the traditions laid down before them, and don't wish to unnecessarily change them. However, all this is to lay the foundation for their future and retirement.
 

Jeffster

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Yeah I figured it wouldn't be any different for SPs. How about perfectionism for the future? An ISFJ, I want it to be right because it might affect both how things are now and what will happen in the future. Does this hold true for you as well?

I really spend very little time thinking about the future. I think part of that is age-related, as some of the younger SPs on here have indicated more future-thinking than me, and that's understandable. The first personality test I took when I was 20, I scored as INFP, mainly because the N/S questions were mostly related to future vs past or new ideas vs "tried and true" methods. I think nearly any 20-year-old would say he thinks more about the future than the past, regardless of type.

These days it goes Present, Past, Future - in that order. And even when I think about the future, it's usually the very immediate future. I hate questions like "Where do you see yourself in five years?" because my answer is "I don't." I don't see myself in five years, I see myself now and have things to do now. All kinds of stuff could happen in the next five years, so why should I attempt to predict it? Life's going to happen anyway, so I'm going to do my best to enjoy it as it happens instead of trying to run ahead of it.
 

Virtual ghost

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I am afraid that we must define what the word "future" means in this context.

For me thinking about what will be for 2 week is not thinking about the future.
To me this is thinking about technical details.
So for me thinking about the future is when periods of time are longer then a year.

Also N is not just about time it is also about how wide is your view on things.
 

Virtual ghost

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That is a very debatable comment though. What is width on things?
Actually I'm just being difficult. :cheese:

Actually you are just using your N. If you want to make a friendship with a strong N just ask things like this often.


For me the space and time parameters are: Cosmic contexts and billions of years that have passed and that will come.

This is because I am proffesionally into hard science and because I think that a person can work its entire life without doing/completing anything important. You can invest your entire life into something but if that thing is not a piece of the puzzle/solution you actually didn't do anything in your life.

This can be disscused on a much complex level so I will stop here.
I mean that I will leave those arguments for some other thread.
 

Snow Turtle

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Actually you are just using your N. If you want to make a friendship with a strong N just ask things like this often.


For me the space and time parameters are: Cosmic contexts and billions of years that have passed and that will come.

This is because I am proffesionally into hard science and because I think that a person can work its entire life without doing/completing anything important. You can invest your entire life into something but if that thing is not a piece of the puzzle/solution you actually didn't do anything in your life.

This can be disscused on a much complex level so I will stop here.
I mean that I will leave those arguments for some other thread.

Bringing it back to a personal level. You'd think that Geology at university level is rather abstract however what I've observed is a heavy focus on a particular piece of rock with it's fine details. Granted I'm only in the 1st year, it seems to be neccessary details. Still that doesn't remove the interest in fossils, not talking about using fossils for dating however. :blush:
 

Virtual ghost

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Bringing it back to a personal level. You'd think that Geology at university level is rather abstract however what I've observed is a heavy focus on a particular piece of rock with it's fine details. Granted I'm only in the 1st year, it seems to be neccessary details. Still that doesn't remove the interest in fossils, not talking about using fossils for dating however. :blush:

Yes, with time it becomes more and more abstract and complex.
Sorry, but first year is not a best example of what geology really is.
Are there any chances that you remember one graph I have posted a few weeks ago? (I will post ot again if needed)



However I think that your approach here is too SJish.
Since for me my education is not like a duty.

For example I have read about 30 books about universe, time, energy and stuff like that in my life. Also I pay attention to geopilitics.
So what I am doing is that I am trying to get all pieces of the puzzle so that I can predict what will happen and what should be done and what should I do.
This is simplicified but this is it.
 

Snow Turtle

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Yes, with time it becomes more and more abstract and complex.
Sorry, but first year is not a best example of what geology really is.
Are there any chances that you remember one graph I have posted a few weeks ago? (I will post ot again if needed)

The one about geochemistry? Yes....................... :doh:

However I think that your approach here is too SJish.
Since for me my education is not like a duty.

For example I have read about 30 books about universe, time, energy and stuff like that in my life. Also I pay attention to geopilitics.
So what I am doing is that I am trying to get all pieces of the puzzle so that I can predict what will happen and what should be done and what should I do.
This is simplicified but this is it.

I'm not surprised since I'm studying it out of a duty. One of the reasons I disliked Geology was because of the uncertainty when predicting whether X is X or Y from the lack of knowledge. Uncomfortable with the uncertainty within the field, when I knew there was a specific certainty. Without some of the details, telling the basic differences between particular rocks or formation patterns was hell.

I told this to the Geophysists, and then told him I'd rather be in psychology. :smile:
 

Virtual ghost

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The one about geochemistry? Yes....................... :doh:

I'm not surprised since I'm studying it out of a duty. One of the reasons I disliked Geology was because of the uncertainty when predicting whether X is X or Y from the lack of knowledge. Uncomfortable with the uncertainty within the field, when I knew there was a specific certainty. Without some of the details, telling the basic differences between particular rocks or formation patterns was hell.

I told this to the Geophysists, and then told him I'd rather be in psychology. :smile:


Yes, I was talking exactly about that one.

I can perfectly understand why an SJ would have a that problem. Especially since many minerals are quite similar in appearance.

Plus you can't classify many things clearly in this field.
So many classifications are vague and it is not clear what is what.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I don't know if intuitives are more prone, but I certainly have perfectionist tendencies. ISxJs seem perfectionist as well, but the difference is that I'm trying to fit my vision of perfection, and not the status quo.


But to be honest I would say that intuitives more none present oriented then they are future oriented. We are trying to understnd the whole context.
So we can't be focused on the world around us in many situations.
I agree. I'm not only concerned with the future, but also the past, in order to get a well-rounded picture. Later, I incorporate the present (well, then it will be the past...). The present is only as important as its implications to the broader context.
 

Snow Turtle

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Yes, I was talking exactly about that one.

I can perfectly understand why an SJ would have a that problem. Especially since many minerals are quite similar in appearance.

Plus you can't classify many things clearly in this field.
So many classifications are vague and it is not clear what is what.

Yep. There was overall patterns in it, but I never paid enough attention to it so the fundamentals were lost. Many minerals do appear extremely similar. Still I've learnt some cool things like pyrite. Little nuggets of gold information. w00t! :D

It's even worst when you are expected to tell how much composition there is of particular minerals from just observation, to take a subsection of the rock face and estimate the percentage and therefore rock type.
 

Virtual ghost

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Yep. There was overall patterns in it, but I never paid enough attention to it so the fundamentals were lost. Many minerals do appear extremely similar. Still I've learnt some cool things like pyrite. Little nuggets of gold information. w00t! :D

It's even worst when you are expected to tell how much composition there is of particular minerals from just observation, to take a subsection of the rock face and estimate the percentage and therefore rock type.


That is exactly it, there is too much uncertainty in this field for a SJ.
Plus with time things only get more and more complicated.
 

nozflubber

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a) Why are intuitives typically described as being focused on the future?
- Please no explanations like "It's Ni/Ne, therefore we are." but I don't mind using functions within the explanation.

Because the future does not exist, nor will the future ever exist in its own right; it's a word we use to vaguely refer to events that haven't happened yet. Events that haven't happened yet requires the mind to use abstraction coupled with imagination in order to grasp them.

Since Ns swim in abstraction, it makes sense they think about this silly thing called "the future". S's are forward looking as well, they're not animals, but sensors will fixate on things that are currently existing and project forward rather than leap ahead into things they cannot observe.
 

Snow Turtle

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That is exactly it, there is too much uncertainty in this field for a SJ.
Plus with time things only get more and more complicated.

Well... For most subjects the latter is always going to be true. I think my favourite aspect of the degree so far was the "micro to macro" when we were studying basic physics - heat flows, seismic waves, porosity etc. At least then there was some sort of structure to the theory.

Geochemistry was fine until they started introducing those teritiary diagrams etc since there was no easy way of remembering which rock goes where apart from just memorising them. At least no pattern I could easily recall.

Fossils is probably the worst part of geology module for sure, since it's essentially remember this without any real context. I've never been a fan of biology for this reason. At least with the rocks there was some vague classification system that was easy to remember such as igneous, metamorphic etc then broken further into basalt and olivine at the bottom layer of the crust. Note: This is all very basic geology. I've never taken it before after all. How small crystals surrounded by the matrix meant the rock had undergone X formation etc. There was at least some reasoning behind it.

You can tell I was much more of a geophysics fan than geochemistry/geology/paleobiology fan.

Curious, what do you think about the uncertainty element for NJs?
 

Virtual ghost

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Curious, what do you think about the uncertainty element for NJs?


I am not sure what do you mean with "uncertainty element" ?

If you are asking how we deal with uncertainty I will say "fine".
I can accept that something simply can be clearly classified and that is it. Since making of classification would create a false/incomplete clasification.
But because of Ni we have a much easier time thinking about things this way. Since we often think outside box. (like all Ns)
 
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