The Scam of the MBTI Trance

[Edgar]

What to say about this ludicrous analogy? Do I think one better understand human beings by being trained in psychology? Yes, but there is only a point to this training if the skill is relevant (the theory is good). If the theory is bullshit, it's like learning a non-relevant skill.

Why are you here on a typology forum, marking yourself as an INTJ, and immersing yourself in bullshit?

 

[Jaguar]

I brought that to the attention of a "marked" INFJ, who was potesting type.
I got told to: "Go fuck myself."
Lol.

 

[Splittet]

Why are you here on a typology forum, marking yourself as an INTJ, and immersing yourself in bullshit?

Because I am bored, because I love psychology and discussing it, because MBTI has sentimental value to me, and because there is some usefulness in viewing MBTI is a weak version of Big Five. The correlations are medium-high on the dimensions... I am an addict to applying theory, to seeing connections, and that's what I get out of it.

 

[Edgar]

Because I am bored, because I have a history of believing in this crap, out of ignorance, and because there is some useful in viewing MBTI is a weak version of Big Five.

So are you here to teach everyone the prior errors of your ways and save them from their misguided selves, or are you admitting the usefulness (however minute) of MBTI?

I'm just curious as to your M.O. after this heated argument. I just want to make sure that the face-off you had with simulatedworld had some practical purpose aside from a giant pissing match.

 

[Splittet]

So are you here to teach everyone the prior errors of your ways and save them from their misguided selves, or are you admitting the usefulness (however minute) of MBTI?

I'm just curious as to your M.O. after this heated argument. I just want to make sure that the face-off you had with simulatedworld had some practical purpose aside from a giant pissing match.

I am here primarily for the stimulation.

What is the usefulness of MBTI? It's a complex issue. It's not very useful in scientific studies because Big Five is simply better. If you want your research to be as good as possible, you use NEO-PI-R, the most reliable, valid and best personality test.

As for using it on a personal basis, it absolutely holds some usefulness, in the sense that it's better than not knowing, but better yet is knowing Big Five results. It's like the difference between light microscopes and electron microscopes, between a sundial and a modern digital clock.

 

[Edgar]

I am here primarily for the stimulation.

What is the usefulness of MBTI? It's a complex issue. It's not very useful in scientific studies because Big Five is simply better. If you want your research to be as good as possible, you use NEO-PI-R, the most reliable, valid and best personality test.

As for using it on a personal basis, it absolutely holds some usefulness, in the sense that it's better than not knowing, but better yet is knowing Big Five results. It's like the difference between light microscopes and electron microscopes, between a sundial and a modern digital clock.

I've never heard of NEO-PI-R, I will check it out, and I will give Big Five a second look.

Thanks for the tip - it's better to exchange useful information instead of vitriol.

 

[garbage]

I've never heard of NEO-PI-R, I will check it out, and I will give Big Five a second look.

Thanks for the tip - it's better to exchange useful information instead of vitriol.

Here's a decent example, if you're brave enough for a 300-question test..

 

[Splittet]

I've never heard of NEO-PI-R, I will check it out, and I will give Big Five a second look.

Thanks for the tip - it's better to exchange useful information instead of vitriol.

In order to understand why Big Five is superior, it's important to understand the differences in methods used. MBTI uses a theoretical approach, while Big Five is purely empirical. First researchers found all the trait-descriptive adjectives in the dictionary, then they had people rate themselves on them, and factor analysis showed five clusters of traits. These five broad traits of personality has been replicated every decade since it's discovery and across numerous cultures and languages. The point is, when you have a theory-driven approach, how do you know that you are not missing an important trait, or that your structure is correct? The lexical and statistical approach is simply more powerful in this area of research... It's the only way you can know the structure of traits and sub-traits...

 

[Mole]

I assumed Victor was being silly about the being dumped for being an INFP thing.

Thank heavens, Ivy, for your sense of humour.

Of course I was being silly in response to Heart's suggestion that I critiqued MBTI simply from a personal weakness.

So I said, yes of course, and here is my weakness itself - it proves everything I say is wrong because it comes from a twisted personal motive.

And I must say I was surprised to find anyone believed it - I guess they wanted to prove me wrong more than they wanted to see the humour.

What would I do without you, Ivy?

 

[Ivy]

I was kind of surprised anyone took it seriously too.

As for your question, I suspect you would do pretty much exactly what you already do.

 

[heart]

Thank heavens, Ivy, for your sense of humour.

Of course I was being silly in response to Heart's suggestion that I critiqued MBTI simply from a personal weakness.

So I said, yes of course, and here is my weakness itself - it proves everything I say is wrong because it comes from a twisted personal motive.

And I must say I was surprised to find anyone believed it - I guess they wanted to prove me wrong more than they wanted to see the humour.

What would I do without you, Ivy?

You add words to what I asked you. I never said it was a personal "weakness."

So here is an important question: Does a personal motive need be seen as "twisted" and does it always make a crusade wrong?

You mistake a desire to understand what drives another person with a desire to demonize them. I wish to understand why MBTI is such an important issue for you. Because to me it just seems like a fringe movement that no one outside of it really cares much about. So if you don't get anything out of it, your time here debating against it seems futile.

For me, if I understood your personal motives, you would move beyond being someone bound and determined to find arguments to someone with real drives and issues who could be understood on a personal level.

 

[jenocyde]

Does a personal motive need be "twisted" and does it always make a crusade wrong?

You mistake a desire to understand what drives another person with a desire to demonize them. I wish to understand why MBTI is such an important issue for you. Because to me it just seems like a fringe movement that no one outside of it really cares much about.

+1

 

[Mole]

A Question of Taste

Victor, sorry for your loss but perhaps it is time to move on. Whether MBTI is seen as valid in your eyes or not, she is the one who took the theory to such an extreme. If she chooses to live her life that way, she is obviously not a perfect match for the person I seem to think you are.

That being said, I think MBTI has been an extremely valuable tool, fallible or not.

There was no loss - I was making a humourous point to Heart.

And it is not just that MBTI is a highly successful scam, but that it comes out of an immoral stable.

It comes out of the stable of Jung who freely and enthusiastically collaborated with the National Socialists.

And the point is to type us by arbitrary psychological types just as the National Socialists typed us with arbitrary somatic types.

But the National Socialists lost the war and so somatic typing lost its cache, while psychological typing, in the form of MBTI, replaced it.

So MBTI is simply a replacement for racism - and it appeals to those who hanker for racism but don't want to be associated with the losing side of WW II.

The purpose of somatic types was to reify living human beings so they could be murdered.

And today the purpose of the psychological types of MBTI is to reify living human beings so they can manipulated by business.

Ultimately it is question of taste - do you prefer living human beings or do you prefer to reify the living into things?

 

[Mole]

I was kind of surprised anyone took it seriously too.

As for your question, I suspect you would do pretty much exactly what you already do.

Good heavens, Ivy, I couldn't do without your sense of humour.

I don't want to do without your sense of humour - I am dependent on your sense of humour.

So always remember Ivy, I depend on you.

 

[jenocyde]

There was no loss - I was making a humourous point to Heart.

And it is not just that MBTI is a highly successful scam, but that it comes out of an immoral stable.

It comes out of the stable of Jung who freely and enthusiastically collaborated with the National Socialists.

And the point is to type us by arbitrary psychological types just as the National Socialists typed us with arbitrary somatic types.

But the National Socialists lost the war and so somatic typing lost its cache, while psychological typing, in the form of MBTI, replaced it.

So MBTI is simply a replacement for racism - and it appeals to those who hanker for racism but don't want to be associated with the losing side of WW II.

The purpose of somatic types was to reify living human beings so they could be murdered.

And today the purpose of the psychological types of MBTI is to reify living human beings so they can manipulated by business.

Ultimately it is question of taste - do you prefer living human beings or do you prefer to reify the living into things?

I know all these things (and I'm glad to hear that your heartbreak was fabricated). But just because someone had bad intentions doesn't mean the end result is bad. If that were the case, I would have to disallow a lot of things in my life.

This is a new field and while I hesitate to refer to it as a science, there is no doubt that there is at least some grounding in the truth. I am far more similar to Edgar in my thinking and reactions than I am to Heart. And even more so to Qre:us. Perhaps you can think of a better way to describe these similarities, but these similarities do exist for me with people who truly type as ENTP, or as EP, or as NT.

I can't say for certain why this is, but it is. Would I base my life around this system? No. But being on this forum has made me want to learn more. Of course there are other typing systems, as well. And whether this is all self fulfilling, it truly has helped in my communications with people that I identify certain patterns in and has helped me to understand where these other people are coming from. And least from a behavioral standpoint - I can't speak much on the cognitive processes.

 

[Mole]

Because to me it just seems like a fringe movement that no one outside of it really cares much about.

MBTI is no more a fringe movement than astrology.

Since WW II millions upon millions of people every year have done the MBTI test across the world.

MBTI has had an immense effect on whole cultures, just like astrology.

MBTI is a remnant of National Socialism living among us.

MBTI is used today to manipulate living human beings.

MBTI appeals to the worst in us.

Yet how bizarre you would call it a fringe movement.

 

[heart]

Yet how bizarre you would call it a fringe movement.

Bizarre to you only because you do nothing but make baseless assumptions about how you think I see the world, how you think I see myself and my motives.

Most people, even the ones who've been tested, don't know what MBTI is and they don't care. It does have a dangerous side which could be used to control others, just like most things in this world do but it seems an unlikely threat right now because most people don't care about it.

 

[Mole]

most people don't care about it.

Is that why there are 118 posts on this thread - because on one cares about it?

In fact this thread is a direct threat to the power structure of this site.

This thread is a direct threat to those with a vested interest in MBTI.

And naturally they have responded to the threat - just as your immune system responds to the threat of an infection.

In fact what we are looking at is an emotional immune response to cognitive dissonance.

For some are for MBTI and some against - and this produces cognitive dissonance.

And cognitive dissonance produces emotional pain which mobilises the emotional immune response of denial, rationalisation and finally insults.

But we must remember that cognitive dissonance is a sign that learning is taking place.

Sure, learning is painful - like stretching an unused muscle.

And taking part in the adventure of learning leads to discovery and understanding.

Who could wish for anything more?

 

[heart]

Is that why there are 118 posts on this thread - because on one cares about it?

Because this is a board about MBTI and there's about five to ten people in this thread posting and responding to each other over and over?

 

[Ivy]

Is that why there are 118 posts on this thread - because on one cares about it?

In fact this thread is a direct threat to the power structure of this site.

This thread is a direct threat to those with a vested interest in MBTI.

And naturally they have responded to the threat - just as your immune system responds to the threat of an infection.

You really have a gift for hyperbole. In fact, an admin at this site (that would be me) has responded in partial agreement with you. I daresay if this thread posed a thread to the site in any way it would have been deleted by Haight already.

"Most people" don't post on typology forums, this one or any other. Most people are either unaware it exists, know about it but don't really care, or know about it and care a little. People invested enough in any kind of typology to discuss it on the internet are pretty few and far between, I'd think.