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N elitism

pure_mercury

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Being a musician does not make you a genius, by any means. And there are plenty of N musicians. This whole topic... ugh.


No, but you CAN be an artistic genius within your field. In my experience, the best musicians and actors I've known have been of average or slightly-higher-than-average intelligence.
 

Into It

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Everybody knows S's are the best; they're just modest.
 

Orangey

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Is that like intellectual athlete ?

I know that you think this is some sort of oxymoron, but being an athlete does not preclude one from being an intellectual. Just as being of average or above average intelligence does not preclude one from being an artistic or creative genius. Creative ability does not increase with IQ above 120.
 

Sentura

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Being a musician does not make you a genius, by any means. And there are plenty of N musicians. This whole topic... ugh.

are you afraid of not being politically correct? or why is the topic "ugh"-y?

the people that are most prone to becoming "elitist" in their mentality are the mentality dominant ones (Se/Si/Ne/Ni). people with these are auxiliary functions are in a gray area and will most likely see things in a more balanced light.

i'm willing to bet that there outside of people who know their MBTI type exists no N elitism, because people don't know their type, and therefore aren't proud of it. like whoever said it, it's more a detached form of "selfishness". on the other hand, S elitism manifests itself as by the book bureaucracy (at least that's how i picture it), where change is neither welcomed nor permitted.

in all honesty, i would want N elitism to be more prevalent. both to study the effects on society at large and to see what changes may come about from it. it may be "evil" looking at it from one perspective, but on the other hand, what if a greater goal could be achieved through this?

SPOILER ALERT
for those of you who haven't seen the watchmen movie.


in the final scenes of the movie, ozymandias decides to blow up entire metropolises across the globe, realizing that the blame can only be put on dr. manhattan. for as long as dr. manhattan stays away from the planet, humanity is united in world peace.

/SPOILER



i see that scene from two sides: on one hand, you have an extreme number of human causalities, for which you can mourn the loss. but on the other hand, you have attained world peace... in a time where war was lurking everywhere. to me, this demonstrates just about the most extreme scenario of N elitism. my point is that even if it is extreme, any N elitism would always serve a goal that would eventually aid mankind as a whole. look at the discovery of nuclear science, and later, the atomic bomb. we took many lives from the japanese the day the bombs dropped, yet they also served to cement the power of the technology. i'm not saying it necessarily is a good thing, i'm just saying that there are always two sides.
 

jenocyde

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are you afraid of not being politically correct? or why is the topic "ugh"-y?

I'm not afraid of anything (except getting skinned alive...) and I have never backed down from anything "controversial" or politically incorrect. I stated my thoughts accurately and did not lie about them, if that's what you are implying. (??)

I think that no one is elite - maybe that's the issue. I just think we are all human and on the same level field, just playing different games. This N vs S, T vs F - yes we have differences, but no one is better or worse in my eyes. So again: ugh.
 

wastrd

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I know that you think this is some sort of oxymoron, but being an athlete does not preclude one from being an intellectual. Just as being of average or above average intelligence does not preclude one from being an artistic or creative genius. Creative ability does not increase with IQ above 120.

not an oxymoron, simply unrelated.
extremely artistically creative -> artist.
extremely logical -> genius.

being an extremely creative musician with an average intelligence makes you an artist, not a genius, that's all i'm arguing.
 

Sentura

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not an oxymoron, simply unrelated.
extremely artistically creative -> artist.
extremely logical -> genius.

being an extremely creative musician with an average intelligence makes you an artist, not a genius, that's all i'm arguing.

i would not equate being extremely logical with being genius.
 

ajblaise

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not an oxymoron, simply unrelated.
extremely artistically creative -> artist.
extremely logical -> genius.

being an extremely creative musician with an average intelligence makes you an artist, not a genius, that's all i'm arguing.

The word genius can apply to artists, scientists, mathematicians etc. And more often than not, it is applied to creative genius, instead of logical genius.
 

Orangey

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not an oxymoron, simply unrelated.
extremely artistically creative -> artist.
extremely logical -> genius.

being an extremely creative musician with an average intelligence makes you an artist, not a genius, that's all i'm arguing.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary:

Genius implies high and peculiar gifts of nature, impelling the mind to certain favorite kinds of mental effort, and producing new combinations of ideas, imagery, etc. Talent supposes general strength of intellect, with a peculiar aptitude for being molded and directed to specific employments and valuable ends and purposes. Genius is connected more or less with the exercise of imagination, and reaches its ends by a kind of intuitive power. Talent depends more on high mental training, and a perfect command of all the faculties, memory, judgment, sagacity, etc. Hence we speak of a genius for poetry, painting. etc., and a talent for business or diplomacy. Among English orators, Lord Chatham was distinguished for his genius; William Pitt for his pre["e]minent talents, and especially his unrivaled talent for debate.
 

Sentura

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I'm not afraid of anything (except getting skinned alive...) and I have never backed down from anything "controversial" or politically incorrect. I stated my thoughts accurately and did not lie about them, if that's what you are implying. (??)

i was thinking you wanted to say something else instead of "ugh". you've got a full array of between 5000+ words at your disposal. i'm sure you could find something better suited for the situation.

I think that no one is elite - maybe that's the issue. I just think we are all human and on the same level field, just playing different games. This N vs S, T vs F - yes we have differences, but no one is better or worse in my eyes. So again: ugh.

maybe we are. i do believe that we start at the same level of instinctive thought or inscription. but i also believe that we don't end at the same starting point. there are parts of us that are equal, that are just the same semantic written in different languages or wording, but there are also parts of us that bring us forward in terms of thinking. one thing is to know the truth yourself. another is to be able to tell everyone else the truth and still hold the same credibility as before.
 

jenocyde

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i was thinking you wanted to say something else instead of "ugh". you've got a full array of between 5000+ words at your disposal. i'm sure you could find something better suited for the situation.

Why? I was fine with my word choice. Was it not elite enough for ya? :wink:

maybe we are. i do believe that we start at the same level of instinctive thought or inscription. but i also believe that we don't end at the same starting point. there are parts of us that are equal, that are just the same semantic written in different languages or wording, but there are also parts of us that bring us forward in terms of thinking. one thing is to know the truth yourself. another is to be able to tell everyone else the truth and still hold the same credibility as before.

I don't understand quite what you are getting at. But I think that just because you may be better at a certain task than me, it doesn't make you a better person... We are all susceptible to disease and death, just like everyone else. Once your skeleton is made out of titanium, then we'll talk...
 

Sentura

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Why? I was fine with my word choice. Was it not elite enough for ya? :wink:

in that case i'm not sure what to make of the statement... frustration?



I don't understand quite what you are getting at. But I think that just because you may be better at a certain task than me, it doesn't make you a better person... We are all susceptible to disease and death, just like everyone else. Once your skeleton is made out of titanium, then we'll talk...

is it wrong of me to measure universal worth in terms of helping your own species?
 

FC3S

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S-type elitism in the "real" world seems obvious to me with beauty pageants, etc... but I really don't buy into all of this either. We all use S and N. And I don't feel elite or non-elite online or in the "real" world. I'm too busy daydreaming... :wink:
Beauty pageants are stupid :/

Unless it's a car show ^_~
 

jenocyde

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in that case i'm not sure what to make of the statement... frustration?

is it wrong of me to measure universal worth in terms of helping your own species?

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with universal worth and helping the species. I don't know how this is relevant to anything I said. Proceed and someone will respond eventually... I just don't have the energy.

(and yes, ugh represents frustration or disgust.)
 
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