Confusing ESTP with ENTJ?

[ladyinspring]

According to this site, they are two commonly confused types. That site has tips for distinguishing them.

At first I thought my grandfather was an ENTJ. He cuts an imposing figure and seemed to have a vision for what his family should be. He used to go around saying "I'm an intelligent black man! Don't talk that nonsense with me!" He is driven and seemed ambitious.

But he's clearly an ESTP, as my brother helped me realize. He's led a wild and crazy life. I mean, he was blinded in a barfight. Women are his biggest weakness. He has been extremely violent to get his way. Yet he is super charming and can be very generous with money. He is definitely a risktaker and a gambler as well.

 

[Edgar]

According to this site, they are two commonly confused types. That site has tips for distinguishing them.

At first I thought my grandfather was an ENTJ. He cuts an imposing figure and seemed to have a vision for what his family should be. He used to go around saying "I'm an intelligent black man! Don't talk that nonsense with me!" He is driven and seemed ambitious.

But he's clearly an ESTP, as my brother helped me realize. He's led a wild and crazy life. I mean, he was blinded in a barfight. Women are his biggest weakness. He has been extremely violent to get his way. Yet he is super charming and can be very generous with money. He is definitely a risktaker and a gambler as well.

lol, generosity and violence are indeed the telltale signs of an ESTP.

 

[FC3S]

Intimidation, sharp, intelligent, to the point - ENTJ
Anxious, over confident, intelligence is debatable, talks too much - ESTP

 

[Eric B]

ESTP: Choleric Sanguine (In Charge/SP)
ENTJ: Choleric Choleric (In Charge/NT, though disputed with Keirseyan theory)

Very similar in being totally expressive (extraverted, pragmatic), and differ only in the structure/motive area.

Cognitively, both are what I would call "aspective" (Se/Ni, though reversed, and Ni inferior for the ESTP).

So they are very similar.

 

[Frank]

^ ESTPs are quite adaptable, yes...but I can see where Edgar is coming from with the ENTJ emulation thing. That's definitely something NTs do--notice the successful strategies that other types use naturally and learn how to incorporate their elements into our own approach.

Whether or not they actually succeed in accurately imitating ESTPs wasn't the point; if they're trying to, then we've come to a useful conclusion here in terms of my question in the OP.

I agree that there may be something to what Edgar is saying. I can remember being quite young and while playing with my friends determining why the clearly dominant one of us was in this position. I wasn't doing this because I particularly admired or wanted to be like them. I just knew it could be useful in some situations.

 

[Edgar]

I agree that there may be something to what Edgar is saying. I can remember being quite young and while playing with my friends determining why the clearly dominant one of us was in this position. I wasn't doing this because I particularly admired or wanted to be like them. I just knew it could be useful in some situations.

Yes, my point exactly.

I never met an ENTJ who wanted to be any other type than his/her own. They DID want to learn the strengths of other types and harness them for their use, but never actually become someone else.

I suppose everyone wants to do that to one degree or another, but I've noticed that ENTJs manage to emulate ESTP's "social prowess" with more ease than other types.

 

[juggernaut]

I never met an ENTJ who wanted to be any other type than his/her own. They DID want to learn the strengths of other types and harness them for their use, but never actually become someone else.

I guess SW is right then.

 

[yenom]

Edgar, if you want to suck ENTJ dicks , thats good for you. But please don't blow things out of proportions.

ENTJ's are frauds.

90% of the ENTJs thinks its their right to rule the world. Now they are claiming to be ESTPs. Let them believe whatever they want to believe.

 

[juggernaut]

Edgar, if you want to suck ENTJ dicks , thats good for you. But please don't blow things out of proportions.



90% of the ENTJs thinks its their right to rule the world. Now they are claiming to be ESTPs. Let them believe whatever they want to believe.

Hostile much there cloud?

And Synarch as supporting evidence??? Oy vey. What is this world coming to...

 

[Jaguar]

if you want to suck ENTJ dicks , thats good for you. But please don't blow things out of proportions.

The only reason you don't suck ENTJ dicks is, you own a horse.
You must be the only man alive, with stretch marks around his mouth.

 

[ADISCIPLE]

The only reason you don't suck ENTJ dicks is, you own a horse.
You must be the only man alive, with stretch marks around his mouth.

LMAO, thats going to be my first signature.

 

[FDG]

^ ESTPs are quite adaptable, yes...but I can see where Edgar is coming from with the ENTJ emulation thing. That's definitely something NTs do--notice the successful strategies that other types use naturally and learn how to incorporate their elements into our own approach.

It's not so easy to imitate a behavior which does not pertain to your true personality. Most people can figure out that you're being fake; from an observer point of view, moreover, it's quite difficult to say when an ENTJ is trying to imitate an ESTP, and when their behavior coincides in a particular situation due to external reasons.

 

[Halla74]

EDIT: Juggernaut is actually INTJ, I believe.

Hey SimulatedWorld,

I believe I recall Juggernaut indicating that at times she feels ENTJ, and others she feels INTJ.

This is not uncommon. I know many people that are on the cusp of E/I.

But I think I remember the post you are referring to RE you statement above where she indicated as such.

Cheers,

-Alex

 

[Halla74]

No they are the same. Just like ENFJ and ENTP. People often confuse ENFJs with ENTPs.

Cloud, please explain how ESTP/ENTJ and ENFJ/ENTP are "the same."

I'm confused. Were you just joking, if not can you please expand that concept?

Thanks,

-Alex

 

[juggernaut]

Hey SimulatedWorld,

I believe I recall Juggernaut indicating that at times she feels ENTP, and others she feels INTP.

This is not uncommon. I know many people that are on the cusp of E/I.

But I think I remember the post you are referring to RE you statement above where she indicated as such.

Cheers,

-Alex

P? When did I become a P? Houston, we have a problem....

Truthfully, I would benefit greatly by adopting some of the P strategies and they're certainly easier to be around.

 

[Halla74]

P? When did I become a P? Houston, we have a problem....

Truthfully, I would benefit greatly by adopting some of the P strategies and they're certainly easier to be around.

SHITE! I meant J, sorry! It's early, my coffee hasn't kicked in, and I'm chasing my kids around!

Will edit/fix now.

Did I remember correctly that you have E/I modes depending on what you are doing?

EDIT: Post above fixed.

 

[juggernaut]

SHITE! I meant J, sorry! It's early, my coffee hasn't kicked in, and I'm chasing my kids around!

Will edit/fix now.

Did I remember correctly that you have E/I modes depending on what you are doing?

EDIT: Post above fixed.

No worries dear. I could definitely use a little more P in my life, perhaps it was just a projection of my own wishful thinking.

You are right on target about the E/I thing. I seem to have something odd going on with the Ti/Te/Ni/Ne. They just don't want to sit still.

 

[Halla74]

No worries dear. I could definitely use a little more P in my life, perhaps it was just a projection of my own wishful thinking.

I thank you most graciously, Ms. Crankypants! Bless you for pardoning my inadvertant transgression against your "J-ness."

Shit, I wihs I had more J; I might actually be on time for something once in my life.

You are right on target about the E/I thing. I seem to have something odd going on with the Ti/Te/Ni/Ne. They just don't want to sit still.

I feel you on this. Even though I am off the charts extroverted (scoring consistenly 90-100%) there are times when I retreat to my man cave (converted my garage into a music studio/office/guest room/etc.) and lock the door and immerse myself in one of my self inflicted crazy projects. I want no one around me at these times, I am totally task oriented, and the slightest distraction results in an event equivalent to interrupting Dr. Frankenstein while he was trying to revive the Monster. But, once I go to work, or out in public, etc., I am a joker and an entertainer. I truly love people and get a kick out of making anyone laugh. So, we are not dissimilar on the E/I thing, but I'm sure there are nuances as to how we transition between tthe two and what compels us to do so. BTW, 3 drinks and I'm done with I and all E.

 

["?"]

It's not so easy to imitate a behavior which does not pertain to your true personality. Most people can figure out that you're being fake; from an observer point of view, moreover, it's quite difficult to say when an ENTJ is trying to imitate an ESTP, and when their behavior coincides in a particular situation due to external reasons.

Not imitating, but genuine look-a-likes. Referencing back to Berens’, the Te/Se functions can easily be misidentified. Linda V. Berens says, “Se and Te are often used when there is a focus on facts and an empirical approach. Se being a perceptive process may consist of data gathering with questions, whereas Te being a judging process poses questions to establish logic.”

The same goes for Ni/Ti functions. “Ti and Ni are often accompanied by a sense of detachment and disconnection. Both have a tendency to enjoy the complex, but when engaging in Ti we usually have a clear sense of the principles or models being judged against and with Ni we have impressionistic images that form in the mind” To an onlooker the dominant and auxiliary functions for both may easily look like the other. Since they both share the "In Charge" interaction style, they can easily be considered look-a-like types.

The same can be said for the ISTP/INTJ as look-a-likes for similar reasons and because they share the “Chart the Course” interaction style (see my sig). Years ago, Linda V. Berens clarified why Se types mistype as intuitives in her article, How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing. In real life ESTP and ENTJ can have similar qualities because of the look-a-like in functions. It only become apparent when you read Keirsey, but then you are not discussing type instead temperament. Besides FDG when you Rocky and I conversed several years ago, you entertained the notion of being ESTP. I don't think you were imitating being ESTP, but genuinely saw the Te-Ni as Se-Ti.

 

[Into It]

For some reason, if I don't know a person much, when they're in I-want-something-and-I'm-going-to-argue-for-it mode, I have a certain peculiar difficulty differentiating between ESTP and ENTJ.

1ESTJ and ENTP have more signature tip-off behaviors that separate them from the other two ExTx types, but it seems that when it comes to trying to persuade others, ENTJ and ESTP approach certain things very similarly, but for largely different reasons.

What tips you off, besides the obvious?

Really? ENTP's and ESTP's I have gotten confused before. They seem more similar than most N vs S types. What kind of tip off behaviors do ESTJ and ENTP have?

And I think you may be on to something here. ENTJ's are very directive in their approach to people, and ESTP's are very persuasive. I would even go so far as to say that the ESTP is the most persuasive S or P type. ENTJ's don't tend to persuade so much as they tend to order. ESTPs will kind of 'read you' and get on your level, whereas you will want to follow the orders that ENTJs give simply because they are probably the most efficient and logical thing to do in the given situation. But always for P vs J, I ask myself if someone is trying to 'direct' the environment (J), rather than just influence it (P).