Cognitive functions vs. umm... the other thingy =)

[BlackCat]

That pretty sound reasoning.

I'm a little curious now BlackCat. What function order would you identify with if you could select them? Is Te more developed than Si, or have you rounded them all off pretty well? (Edit: Oh just needed to look in your profile - Still is that what you agree with? xD)

What do you think of Ti as a function usage? You said that others always type you as an INTP because you sometimes appear to be rather 'thinking' orientated but that doesn't neccessary mean you are a T. We've had this conversation before but I never asked that question .___.

I suppose the only question that remains: Does Te usually work in a healthy manner for you, how prone are you to using it negatively? Then again... I can end up using Ti negatively but I'm pretty good with it as well. Not sure what sort of information this question gives exactly. Questioning whether development is from usage or whether it was healthy I suppose...

I can identify pretty well with my function order as of now (typical INFP one), simply because I'm obviously in touch with my Fi and Ne, I have a good memory of how things were and I'm good with taking in details of things (especially things that actually matter to me), and Si makes sense for me as a relief function (I actually see it play out). The inferior Te is odd, because I'm not afraid to brandish it, but I only do so when I know that it's safe to do it, inferiors are generally the most protected side of someone, thus making them fearful of using it. It's not my default way of doing things, if a logical inference I make gets flamed or gets me called an idiot then I will feel pretty bad as a result. I get comfortable with a situation at first ("size it up" or get read up on it etc) then I won't be so afraid of showing my logical side. I prefer to face life with a logical approach, since in my opinion if you're truly lead by emotion then you won't get much of anywhere. Logic is my highest value.

As for negative use, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. I can't remember any specific incident when I've made a personal negative decision based off of applying logic (there are plenty of misapplications, but that just comes from misinformation). Sometimes I will misjudge something and screw up (misjudging the consequences of something), there are a few other things that I can't think of right now (it's a bit early). The only negative use I can see clearly is that sometimes I can abuse it when I get very angry at someone. I've read that inferiors tend to be an all or nothing thing, and the all or nothing part of inferior Te that I can clearly see in myself when I'm angry. Insight into people + anger at them = bad.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I can identify pretty well with my function order as of now (typical INFP one), simply because I'm obviously in touch with my Fi and Ne, I have a good memory of how things were and I'm good with taking in details of things (especially things that actually matter to me), and Si makes sense for me as a relief function (I actually see it play out). The inferior Te is odd, because I'm not afraid to brandish it, but I only do so when I know that it's safe to do it, inferiors are generally the most protected side of someone, thus making them fearful of using it. It's not my default way of doing things, if a logical inference I make gets flamed or gets me called an idiot then I will feel pretty bad as a result. I get comfortable with a situation at first ("size it up" or get read up on it etc) then I won't be so afraid of showing my logical side. I prefer to face life with a logical approach, since in my opinion if you're truly lead by emotion then you won't get much of anywhere. Logic is my highest value.

Nice.

As for negative use, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. I can't remember any specific incident when I've made a personal negative decision based off of applying logic (there are plenty of misapplications, but that just comes from misinformation). Sometimes I will misjudge something and screw up (misjudging the consequences of something), there are a few other things that I can't think of right now (it's a bit early). The only negative use I can see clearly is that sometimes I can abuse it when I get very angry at someone. I've read that inferiors tend to be an all or nothing thing, and the all or nothing part of inferior Te that I can clearly see in myself when I'm angry. Insight into people + anger at them = bad.

I sort of realised afterwards that all my functions can manifest themselves badly. Ne with pessimism, Ti with round-a-bout thinking, Fe with dependancy and Si with misguided impressions. Guess I was talking about how often the negative side of the function manifests itself, in this case your inferior in comparison to healthy usage.

Si (Fe = Ti ~ Fi)
Black void (Te ~ Ni)
Ones I suck at (Se Ne)

Hm. The more I look at my own functions, the more it's obvious that I'm an ISFJ. That's rather surprising. Apologies for hijacking the thread disney. I guess the top two functions as preference (it'll still be within the top 3 considering there are users who claim preference and aptitude for tertiary over auxilary) are the only real thing we can use to determine type.

Thanks for your explanation!

 

[BlackCat]

I guess the top two functions as preference (it'll still be within the top 3 considering there are users who claim preference and aptitude for tertiary over auxilary) are the only real thing we can use to determine type.

Thanks for your explanation!

No problems.

People who prefer their tertiary are falling to tertiary temptation. Tertiary Temptation

Even though this was a hijack it will still give insight into the use of inferiors, especially in Disney, since we both have inferior Te. Perhaps she can relate in some way.

 

[NewEra]

It's just so confusing. I read the descriptions, and I seem to identify with Fi more than Ti, but looking at the dichotomies, I think I use T to interact more than F.

You're ISFP.

 

[Snow Turtle]

No problems.

People who prefer their tertiary are falling to tertiary temptation. Tertiary Temptation

Even though this was a hijack it will still give insight into the use of inferiors, especially in Disney, since we both have inferior Te. Perhaps she can relate in some way.

Lenore seems to make it out to be such a negative trait though, which is sort of sad. I sort of resonate with the description but at the same time I don't, perhaps it's a matter of perception?

"Tertiary Ti (IxFJ): "I can't possibly go along with this, because it makes no sense. It's filled with internal contradictions. It's crude and not true to the real principles of how this works. It's trying to shove an inappropriately a priori conceptual structure onto the reality. I will have to go by feel, and where it leads I can't know until I get there. I've got to trust this groove regardless of people's arbitrary expectations." The Secondary Function (Fe) would say: "You've reached the limits of what you can do alone. You can make others feel important by telling them your needs and asking for their help, and yielding some genuine control to them. See who you can find common cause with."

From my own experience especially with social situations. It's my lack of Fe that makes me shutdown and resort to Ti as guidance, but my Ti sort of incooperates feelings regardless as I believe that logic itself is built upon faulty premises, thus emotions can and sometimes should be included with the system. It's possible that because I can't rely on my Si on Fe situation, that I've resorted to Ti.

What about the occasions when a person consciously decides to reject the auxilary position in favour of the teritiary or using the teritiary to back up the dominant? I find it difficult to believe that there is one best method that should be followed and these alternative decisions are mostly unhealthy. There's alot of value in using Ti stand alone, and I guess that might be true for you, except you do it with your inferior function. At least that's the impression I always get from this sort of thing, might be interpreting things incorrectly.

 

[BlackCat]

I personally don't like those descriptions of tertiary temptation, they are too specific and not broad enough. I can see where they would go with that. but not really from that specific description. As far as I know with tertiary temptation you lose your 2ndary function while it's going on, and the only way to get out of tertiary temptation is to use the 2ndary. There is a good example of an INFP that joined recently who's Si is very good, along with Fi, but her Ne is really bad and alien to her.

NOW the thread is derailed.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I personally don't like those descriptions of tertiary temptation, they are too specific and not broad enough. I can see where they would go with that. but not really from that specific description. As far as I know with tertiary temptation you lose your 2ndary function while it's going on, and the only way to get out of tertiary temptation is to use the 2ndary. There is a good example of an INFP that joined recently who's Si is very good, along with Fi, but her Ne is really bad and alien to her.

Oooh that's quite an interesting idea since it'd explain my situation and some of the other IXFJ users here. That example is just awesome! I wonder whether she feels a compulsion to utilise Ne though despite it being bad since I can feel the desire to utilise Fe, aptitude is a different matter however. Does it the tertiary hold true for yourself?

Just to throw it back into OP topic. The distinction between Fi and Ti is not really that difficult especially if you operate with the most basic fundamental descriptions of it. Fi being the understanding of values, Ti being more of an analytic system (An F will more likely focus on analysing values.)

Ti - This system works in a consistant way. Battery hens shouldn't be tortured because life is should be valued.

Problem is there is that with some positions: There's no reasoning for the position apart from it's just right.

Fi - "because life should be valued" it's sort of a fundamental position which can't really be argued. Having said that not all values held by Fi are fundamental positions though. And I'd imagine that Fi sort of analyses their values as well in some way, though the descriptions tend to be mystical in nature... sort of like Ni.

It's the reason that my ENTX friend can claim "There's no need to care for other animal species, apart from efficiency for the survival of our human race" - obviously that's a position I hate but I can't disagree with him because ultimately it's logically sound.

NOW the thread is derailed.

We should get a room.
Bunny and Kitty?

 

[BlackCat]

Oooh that's quite an interesting idea since it'd explain my situation and some of the other IXFJ users here. That example is just awesome! I wonder whether she feels a compulsion to utilise Ne though despite it being bad since I can feel the desire to utilise Fe, aptitude is a different matter however. Does it the tertiary hold true for yourself?

No she didn't. She just couldn't relate... I can't find a link. I sometimes feel that way with my tertiary, but I get myself out of it.

EDIT: Here's the link. http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/16917-specific-ixfp-concerns-advice-wanted.html

Here is a great description of Ti to add to the topic- http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-duper-typology-overview-doom.html#post603900

We should get a room.

Lol @ that comic, I've seen that artist's art somewhere with the bunny and kitty.

 

[/DG/]

Hmm, quite a few posts after I went to bed last night.

Ever written out your feelings on notepad before?
What does it look like to you? More focus on Ti or Fi. (They will both be there)

Ehh, not really. I'm not a huge fan of writing. When I've gotten really upset and needed to get some F out, I've blogged a couple of times, but that's about it.

You're ISFP.

Straigh to the point. Haha.

 

[Azseroffs]

Dichotomies, temperament, other two-dichotomy combinations (IN ES SF ST IP IJ EP EJ, all usually have some distinct characteristics).

I question functions because I notice there's a big difference in their use in different types. For example, Ti in ISTP seems a lot different to me.

and just a btw DisneyGeek, I'm pretty sure you're ISFP too

 

[/DG/]

and just a btw DisneyGeek, I'm pretty sure you're ISFP too

Ehh, I wouldn't be too sure about that.


Would anyone happen to know of a good cognitive processes test and website about the functions? The cognitiveprocesses.com seems to have gone offline for quite some time now.

 

[Eric B]

Here's the final home for it: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

 

[/DG/]

Here's the final home for it: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

Mmm thanks. I've come across that website before, but forgot the url. I love the concept of that test, but I always end up being INFP. I took it again just now and got INFP.