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  1. #31
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Nov 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Actually Te in INTJs can be worse than in ENTJs to the extent that an Ni vision involves other people. An INTJ who is absolutely convinced that you need to do x in service of Ni will instinctively call on Te only to browbeat you into doing so, whereas an ENTJ is willing to engage you in a rational discussion about the pros and cons of you doing x and will allow himself to be persuaded if your counterarguments are good ones. And even when he is not persuaded, he is much quicker than the INTJ to take your refusal to do x as given and adapt his plan accordingly, whereas the INTJ will often start to play dirty.

    My problems with ENTJs (as friends) don't stem from their formidable use of Te (but then, having Te as my auxiliary probably helps me both in sympathizing with them and also in standing up to them when necessary) but from what is from my perspective their under-use of Ni and Fi. Too many of them apply their energy mindlessly in pursuit of more or less random (career) goals, without stopping to zoom out and think about what's really worth doing and what would make them happiest in the long run.
    I'd say I'm better at working under someone. Example of my better uses of Si and Te would be when I'm at work. I've always had this inner need for management roles. When a customer has a serious very uncommon problem, I'm quick to take charge of it and find a solution, usually when it involves having an understanding of the rules in a way that allows you to get what they need while still staying within the rules.

    I work in a department store. For instance, a customer called and wanted to find out what some clothes were and only had their receipt with a UPC and a title of the type of clothing. They had left their clothes at the store and wouldn't be able to easily find it again. So, I took it upon myself to take that very small piece of information and begin a solo scavenger hunt in the Ladies department to find those 2 pieces of clothing. I was able to go through the ads using the price, talk to other employees for clues and after 15 minutes, I found the clothes she was coming for. After it was all said and done, I felt exhilarated. That was exciting to me. It was a heavy reliance on Si and Te, although Ni could have done the same thing.

    It's like you said, Si and Ni have their own goals, and they'll push other people out of the way with Te if those people are irrelevant to the goals. We're much more focused. If I'm stuck on needing to get something done and you're not part of my plan, you do not exist.

  2. #32
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    May 2007


    I can recognize some of my bad tendencies in the OP too, as my pro tests have told me Te and Ti are about equal for me so I get the good, but specially the bad, points of both.

    Myself and quite a few bona fide Te types that I've known have found ways to simulate Fe through Te. Learning a formula for dealing with a certain type of person or situation that involves saying catchphrases like "well, nobody needs that" or "of course, anyone would feel the same" or "I hear what you're saying" and other such sympathetic validations, and then use these phrases strategically, so it looks like Fe but it's actually Te having fun with a new chess set. Either way, the other person ends up not feeling dominated or disregarded.

    Trouble is, when Te kicks in, "regarding others' feelings" can still wind up more about cold strategy than actual genuine care/sympathy. My ESTJ has said to me on more than one occasion about a certain woman, "Yeah, all her emotional crap, it's just BS, but you know she'll never change and if she gets riled up she can be really obstructive, so it's best to just pander to her on the surface to keep her happy, then she can be useful rather than a pain in the ass."

    So he's not actually valuing her emotions or considering them as valid - they're just an obstacle in the path of realizing his ambitions, to be strategically negotiated.
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  3. #33
    just a vessel EJCC's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
    173 so/sx


    Oh jeez, I wish I didn't relate to this thought process as much as I do. And I totally do the Fe thing you mention, too... mostly out of necessity. I know that I often wish that I could just be blunt with people about everything (Feelings? Pshaw!), but obviously that's not possible, so you find these little phrases, like "I have trouble with that, too", or "Besides that, you're doing great!", in order to do well when working with people.* So yeah, I agree with you; It doesn't really come naturally, so you train yourself to do it. (Oh, just realized that all my examples are work-related. Shoot! Are they still Fe? Well... you get the idea.)

    *Because of everything I've read about ESTJ flaws, my phrase list now includes "You make an excellent point" and "You're right about X and Y". Although both of those phrases are usually followed by "BUT...", it's still been a huge step for me.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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