Can "Nice Guys" Be T's??

[Lauren Ashley]

Maybe this is different extroverts, but for the time being I consider myself to be INTP, and I definitely temper the things that I say to certain people. If I know someone is sensitive and will take the criticism badly no matter how I say it, then I will avoid saying it. It doesn't seem worth the conflict. Does this make me F?

I think this comes from the fact that the ENTPs I know are not too aware of how others perceive them, not because they are insensitive. If they knew, they might tone it down. And I don't know if your NF or not, but I think you're a respectful orange blobby thingy

Furthermore, and in line with substitute's anecdote, the differences between me and my INFJ friend show in how we express our feelings to others. On the surface, she is much more friendly and willing to reach out to others and connect (even at her own expense sometimes).

That's interesting. No one ever thinks I'm very friendly at first because I never really engage with them unless I find them intriguing for some reason. If they approach me I will most likely be very friendly, but I'm fairly reserved amongst people I don't know.

This leads people to think that she's the nicer, more pleasant one. Then they react badly when she's not in the mood and won't go through on things that she promised she'd do earlier when she was in a good mood.

An INFJ not following up on promises? Blasphemy!

 

[Orangey]

I think this comes from the fact that the ENTPs I know are not too aware of how others perceive them, not because they are insensitive. If they knew, they might tone it down. And I don't know if your NF or not, but I think you're a respectful orange blobby thingy

Heh, everyone gets a kick out of my avatar! And I meant people that I am pretty familiar with- otherwise how would I know that they are sensitive to criticism? And I think Mondo placed his question in the context of inter-friend interaction. Regardless of context, though, if I am called to make an assessment of some sort (even if it's for something like a petty fight between friends) then I won't hesitate to be honest, which I guess can sometimes come off as critical.

If asked to assess a situation like that (to mitigate a fight between friends or family members), would ENFPs not be honest for fear of offending someone?

That's interesting. No one ever thinks I'm very friendly at first because I never really engage with them unless I find them intriguing for some reason. If they approach me I will most likely be very friendly, but I'm fairly reserved amongst people I don't know.

Well she's reserved and a little weird, but there's still this element of needing to connect with others. For instance, quiet as she is, she will not hesitate to share (what I see as) a fairly personal story in order to make others in the group feel welcomed, or better, or something. And among friends, she always comes off as the more caring one...the one you'd go to first for a favor. This is probably why she can get resentful at times...people probably ask her to do more stuff than they ask me. Whenever anyone approaches me for a favor, they are wary and sometimes overly respectful of my time (i.e., "sorry to bother you, but..." or, "are you sure that's okay?"). Or after, they'll overly thank me, as if the little favor that I did for them was some sort of huge sacrifice for me.

Maybe I am not good at understanding how I come off to others, but I don't understand what it is about me that makes people think that doing a favor for them is a huge imposition on my time. Unlike my INFJ friend who sometimes gets flustered and resentful of favors (like driving someone somewhere, begrudgingly), if I say I will do something, I do it completely (never half-heartedly).

An INFJ not following up on promises? Blasphemy!

Well she'll usually not flake out, but she'll be passive aggressive while she does it. For instance, if someone asked her to drive them somewhere, and she promised she would, she would do it and be in a pissy/touchy mood the whole time. And she'd keep giving mentioning the thing that she is prevented from doing because she had to sacrifice it for them.

 

[Ardea]

I certainly hope so!

But mostly... I've found T assholes.

Most men are assholes.

Most nice guys are NFs.

There are a lot of asshole NFs.

Werd.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

The meanest rudest boyfriend I had was an NF

 

[ajblaise]

The meanest rudest boyfriend I had was an NF

Yeah NFs can be cold when they want to be, and it's at a much lower degree temperature than regular NT coldness. I could never do the amount of social damage and manipulation someone with higher emotional intelligence could carry out.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Well she's reserved and a little weird, but there's still this element of needing to connect with others. For instance, quiet as she is, she will not hesitate to share (what I see as) a fairly personal story in order to make others in the group feel welcomed, or better, or something. And among friends, she always comes off as the more caring one...the one you'd go to first for a favor.

Oh, I see. I'm the "go-to" person in my groups as well.

Maybe I am not good at understanding how I come off to others, but I don't understand what it is about me that makes people think that doing a favor for them is a huge imposition on my time. Unlike my INFJ friend who sometimes gets flustered and resentful of favors (like driving someone somewhere, begrudgingly), if I say I will do something, I do it completely (never half-heartedly).

Maybe because the INFJ is open in sharing herself with others, people get the sense that she is a very giving person and would have no problem lending a hand. Whereas you're (I take it) less open with yourself so they think you might have more of an issue with favors.

For instance, if someone asked her to drive them somewhere, and she promised she would, she would do it and be in a pissy/touchy mood the whole time. And she'd keep giving mentioning the thing that she is prevented from doing because she had to sacrifice it for them.

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I find it so annoying when a person whines about something they agreed to do, or keeps mentioning it as if it's a hassle.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Yeah NFs can be cold when they want to be, and it's at a much lower degree temperature than regular NT coldness.

No less than -28 degrees Celsius. I promise.

 

[ajblaise]

No less than -28 degrees Celsius. I promise.

*changes into a sweater*

 

[Eric B]

Heh, everyone gets a kick out of my avatar!

Yeah, between that and Blanclait's (Monster Pikachu?)...

 

[Mempy]

Even if they aren't necessarily kind, something many of them have in common is an easiness and willingness to express their emotions to others.
Such emotional expression often bothers me and I think that's somewhat of a motivation in itself for me to help others.

Can you give an example of this kind of emotional expression? That you have reservations about expressing emotions might come from the pressure on men to be masculine and much less emotional than women.

Like Orangey said, having reservations about expressing criticism when you know the criticism will be received badly and perhaps not even heard isn't the same as being afraid of or repelled by conflict (which not all Fs are, anyway). It's being sensible and choosing your battles. I don't waste my breath on conflicts that aren't going to improve my life or the life of someone else.

 

[iwakar]

My INTP brother is the kindest and gentlest of the bunch.

 

[527468]

They're probably going to be nicer if they have mid to strong Fe, at least from my experience. Even if they're in a really bad mood, if they value Fe then they aren't going to be angry toward you. Of course I could just be contradicting myself due to past experiences with ENTPs. I think nice is a pretty subjective term. One girl says nice, but means sexy, but she means the nice kind of sexy.

I can also see how Fi people can not be nice.

 

[Haight]

I can fake nice. I mean, not here, but I'm very capable. I do it at work 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a year. No one other than you guys knows I'm a jackass. Although there's an ENFJ co-worker that might be slightly suspicious.

And . . . my parents know, I guess.

 

[Tallulah]

I'm nice. I have a genuine desire to help people, and I don't expect anything in return. But if you don't appreciate what I've done and just keep making unreasonable demands, I'm not going to keep doing nice things for you like an NF might. My NF friends continue to try to figure out what THEY might be doing wrong that is causing the demanding person to use them. I recognize a user for a user and cut my losses, no guilt.

My eNFJ friend is much more the type to express her appreciation verbally to her friends, but I'm much more the type to actually look at what a friend might need from me and do it without fanfare. Like Orangey said, I sometimes get the overly-enthusiastic thanks afterward. I actually don't mind coming off as sort of standoffish, because fewer people take you for a sucker on first sight.

 

[Jeremy]

II criticize myself much worse than any of my friends can.. but many sincerely called me one of the kindest people they've ever met.

However, I have observed many of the more Feeling-oriented people in my group of friends.
Even if they aren't necessarily kind, something many of them have in common is an easiness and willingness to express their emotions to others.
Such emotional expression often bothers me and I think that's somewhat of a motivation in itself for me to help others.

Remember, you're an ENFP (according to your little type thingy.). The P is important, because you're working with Introverted Feeling, not extraverted. Introverted feelers are far LESS likely to express their emotions to and about others to them. Instead, we tend to show it through our actions. This is why people can tend to see us as the "nice guys" - our inner values affect our outer behavior.

You mention getting "overwhelmed" with emotional behavior. In what way? I can find myself getting overwhelmed when people spill their guts to me, but through empathy. Even if I'm not trying, I begin to feel the emotion of the other person, and it definitely can be overwhelming, for sure. Not sure if you feel it in the same way though.

I used to question myself in the same way, and to be honest, I often still do. But I think you are most likely leaning towards F. Fi is THE self-criticism function, because we (and by we, I mean FPs in general) live within ourselves, and thus need internal validation rather than external. I can be told I'm doing a good job by everyone else, but if I don't think I am, then I feel horrible - even if objectively I AM doing a good job.

 

[TaylorS]

I'm nice. I have a genuine desire to help people, and I don't expect anything in return. But if you don't appreciate what I've done and just keep making unreasonable demands, I'm not going to keep doing nice things for you like an NF might. My NF friends continue to try to figure out what THEY might be doing wrong that is causing the demanding person to use them. I recognize a user for a user and cut my losses, no guilt.

My eNFJ friend is much more the type to express her appreciation verbally to her friends, but I'm much more the type to actually look at what a friend might need from me and do it without fanfare. Like Orangey said, I sometimes get the overly-enthusiastic thanks afterward. I actually don't mind coming off as sort of standoffish, because fewer people take you for a sucker on first sight.

OMG, LOL, I'm just just about the most gullible sucker there is.

 

[FDG]

Man, emotional talk with friends? That's gay

 

[Jeremy]

Man, emotional talk with friends? That's gay

Actually, plenty of homosexuals don't talk openly about their feelings, because they are usually forced to hide a large portion of who they are away for so long, and tend to continue doing so to a lesser degree even after identifying as homosexual.

 

[BlackCat]

Actually, plenty of homosexuals don't talk openly about their feelings, because they are usually forced to hide a large portion of who they are away for so long, and tend to continue doing so to a lesser degree even after identifying as homosexual.

He didn't mean gay in a literal sense. He was just adding to the fail that this thread is... embracing a stereotype with it not being true to him in order to further prove that labeling like this is kinda silly.

 

[Jeremy]

He didn't mean gay in a literal sense. He was just adding to the fail that this thread is... embracing a stereotype with it not being true to him in order to further prove that labeling like this is kinda silly.

I'm aware I just responded how I try to respond when people use that term in real life.