MTBI and genes! Forming a genetic theory...

[BlackCat]

Let's see... My mom is an ENFP and my dad is INTP. I only know the types on my mom's side, they seem kinda random to me.

Aunt and uncle set one- ESTJ aunt, ISTJ uncle. Two sons, one ESFP the other INTJ.

Aunt and uncle set two- INFP aunt INTP uncle. One daughter, ISFP.

Other aunt is an INTP.

Grandparents are an ESTP grandfather and ISTJ grandmother. I also have an ISFJ great aunt.

On my dad's side I know that my grandmother was an INFP, and my grandfather was an ISTJ. Like I said above my dad is INTP, and from the impression I get of all of them they are a bunch of NTs (there is no specific type pattern), with a couple of NFs and one or two SJs and SPs. The "head of the family" on my dad's side is an ENTP I know that much. Otherwise I'm unclear about the specifics.

 

[Qre:us]

I believe that we inherit a part of our personality from our parents, but, nothing that can be parsed out using the MBTI or any other Typology model (i.e., the personality inheritence is much more complex than we can pinpoint). I also think there's obviously the factor of 'nurture' or upbringing. I know that a lot of people say that my mannerisms, tonality of voice, is like my mother. We express ourselves very very differently, but, the nuances of our mannerisms, a lot have commented on it. Just as a lot have commented that I have my dad's 'brashness'.

My personality seems like a 50/50 exact inheritence from mom's and pop's....at a superficial glance. (this is also because they are exact opposites of each other, thus, accounting for all possible pairings....and I just ended up with 1 of the 16)

Mom: INFP
Dad: ESTJ

Me: ENTP

 

[maliafee]

I believe that we inherit a part of our personality from our parents, but, nothing that can be parsed out using the MBTI or any other Typology model (i.e., the personality inheritence is much more complex than we can pinpoint). I also think there's obviously the factor of 'nurture' or upbringing. I know that a lot of people say that my mannerisms, tonality of voice, is like my mother. We express ourselves very very differently, but, the nuances of our mannerisms, a lot have commented on it. Just as a lot have commented that I have my dad's 'brashness'.

My personality seems like a 50/50 exact inheritence from mom's and pop's....at a superficial glance. (this is also because they are exact opposites of each other, thus, accounting for all possible pairings....and I just ended up with 1 of the 16)

Mom: INFP
Dad: ESTJ

Me: ENTP

SO interesting.

50% inheritance seems right.

I'm not sure there's a way to do what I want (formulate a realistic gene theory) but I would love to see it, just because it's so interesting to me...
I was hoping we could figure out type or function inheritance like eye color... *sigh* perhaps not? I'm not really giving up though. Even if genetic, is it completely random? I mean, you can have a family of brown-eyed people and one blue-eyed person...

 

[JocktheMotie]

To be honest I'd just look at population statistics regarding type and try to fit the observed data to one of those probability grids [forget the actual name], and see if you can get genotypes/variables to fit the probability distributions of the types.

TypeC forum is way too small a dataset to get an accurate formula.

 

[maliafee]

To be honest I'd just look at population statistics regarding type and try to fit the observed data to one of those probability grids [forget the actual name], and see if you can get genotypes/variables to fit the probability distributions of the types.

TypeC forum is way too small a dataset to get an accurate formula.

Goddamnit I'm no NT! What do I know about datasets?! I just wanna see...

Don't make me get bored of this... 'cause I'll do it!!!

*giggle*

 

[maliafee]

Grandparents are an ESTP grandfather and ISTJ grandmother.

ME TOO!!!

 

[ajblaise]

Left-brain dominance correlates to J types, and right-brain dominance correlates to P types. I think there was a thread about this.

So besides E/I, which definitely shows brain differences, there might also be differences observable in J/P types. I also think S favors the left-brain and N favors the right.

 

[maliafee]

Left-brain dominance correlates to J types, and right-brain dominance correlates to P types. I think there was a thread about this.

So besides E/I, which definitely shows brain differences, there might also be differences observable in J/P types. I also think S favors the left-brain and N favors the right.

I have tested twice to have equal brain dominance. My INTJ brother has tested with this, too.

So what does that mean?!

 

[ajblaise]

I have tested twice to have equal brain dominance. My INTJ brother has tested with this, too.

So what does that mean?!

S uses left-brain, and P uses right. So if you're a xSxP type, or a xNxJ type, having equal dominance in these cases can make sense.

 

[maliafee]

S uses left-brain, and P uses right. So if you're a xSxP type, or a xNxJ type, having equal dominance in these cases can make sense.

But xSxP doesn't really make sense... (to me)...

 

[mortabunt]

Thanks for the smart compliment. This demands research.

 

[yenom]

genetics has to do with the maniufacturing of proteins and the replication of cells. It has nothing to do with the mbti.

 

[sculpting]

genetics has to do with the maniufacturing of proteins and the replication of cells. It has nothing to do with the mbti.

genetics, in turn with signal transduction and hormonal signalling controls manufacturing of proteins and miRNAs in cells, whcih interact via further signal transduction pathways which control how, what and why cells do in response to external and internal stimuli, which influences how a cell-say a nueron transmits signals and interacts with surrounding cells.

and say how a pile o' neurons transmit signals and work together which determines seems to determine cognitive functioning.

from the genome to the transcriptome to the proteome and beyond... woo-hoo!

as for genetics I have sort of watched this with mbti letters but never seen a clear correlation-pieces and parts seem to repeat but nothing clean, precise or statistical. definite tendancy for grandparent types to pop up again in kids which could just be random.. not paid any attention to functions though...

Me: enfp (Ne-Fi) (mom enfp (Ne-Fi), dad likely infj (Ni-Fe) sister esfp (Se-Fi))
husband: istp (Ti-Se) (mom istp (Ti-Se), dad intj (Ni-Te) sister estp (Se-Ti) sister enfp (Ne-Fi))

our kids: enfp and most likely an intj

Could epigentics during pregnancy play a role here??? total wingnut idea...but hypothyroid moms have babies who display ADHD tendancies-aka NPs. hypothyroidism effects 20% of women long term and mild versions are not caught well by current tests...

 

[entropie]

father side:

grandpa: estj
grandma: infj
father: istp
uncle 1: istj
uncle 2: infp

Mother side:

grandpa: intp
grandma: esfp
mother: isfj

kid 1: entp (aka estj)
kid 2: esfj

 

[nozflubber]

genetic theory, or an epigenetic theory? or what? I think this is an important distinction at this juncture!

Epigenetics changes our entire concept of what we can legitimately call "genetic", so would you plz ? You have to contend with the possibility, now - post-epigenetics -, that literally just BEING in the particular household you grew up in could activate specific genes. Being raised in an SP household may yield an artisan temperament due to their "lifestyle" and not necessarily the parents genes.

That so-called "INTP Aunt/uncle".... that never married.... may not be INTP. Those traits may have been activated due to a lifestyle of solitude and reflection.

I dont ask this to be a pedantic dick, but because, really, the underlying tone of your OP seems to indicate that legit personality constructs are a result of "nature" and not a nurture component. This is correct, no?

 

[maliafee]

genetic theory, or an epigenetic theory? or what? I think this is an important distinction at this juncture!

Epigenetics changes our entire concept of what we can legitimately call "genetic", so would you plz ? You have to contend with the possibility, now - post-epigenetics -, that literally just BEING in the particular household you grew up in could activate specific genes. Being raised in an SP household may be due to their "lifestyle" and not necessarily the parents genes.

I dont ask this to be a pedantic dick, but because, really, the underlying tone of your OP seems to indicate that legit personality constructs are a result of "nature" and not a nurture component. This is correct, no?

What would you say to twin studies wherein: Twin 1 is raised by genetic parents. They share 50% characteristics. Twin 2 is raised by foster parents, they share 0% characteristics. Twins 1 & 2 share > 50% characteristics.

 

[nozflubber]

hmmm, what are you looking at as "characteristics" ? pencil and paper indicators of temperament? biased parental units/experiemnters and their observations?

The point isn't so much about the stats or the numbers to back soemthing up at this point, its the observation that the numbers are possibly meaningless because there is no more distinction between nature or nurture. (or, if there IS one, it just got a LOT more complicated)

here's what you need to ask in lieu of epigenetics: in the above case, what happens when you bring in children that initially share 0 % of the characteristics of the genetic parents, and the parents actualyl BELIEVE/treat the child as their own kin? what % of the characteristics would they adopt?!?

I wouldn't be surprised if you found %50 , or anything statistically near to it I think the main problem is thinking of " inherited genetic similarity" as if it is some sort of static code that lingers inside us and our sperm/eggs..... it's not like that. we are FAR more interactive than that, and epigenetics and psychology will prove it

 

[nozflubber]

From Wiki: "Epigenetic changes are preserved when cells divide. Most epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime, but some epigenetic changes are inherited from one generation to the next"

To the nature/nurture debate, the bolded proposition is bad enough. This means the part of genetic expression that is due to environment can carry over throughout the organism's life cycle - that means, literally, a bad environment in youth can "poison" you for life.

However, as to the debate about personality and genetic theories, the Italicized part is extremly damming/concerning. to put it in perspective, let me use a particular example: The house your biological father grew up in. It literally had an affect on his genetic expression. This effect could have lingered throughout his life and until and including the point you were conceived - then once his seed is gone, let's say he leaves and has no hand in raising you. What happens? His influence and his "nurture" are gone, right? Well no, many things happen to make up an organism, but epigenetics tells us its possible that the experience of your father's living inside the house he did lingers on throughout your own genetic expression. That's just one possibility.... when you think of ALL the powerful effects that environment has on an organism.... well, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure there's anything called "nature", at all, as far as this debate goes!

THIS MEANS THERE COULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO GENETIC/PHYSICAL BASIS FOR TYPE!! It could literally, entirely, be a carrying-over of environment effects from one generation to the next, the womb no longer being the filter for "bad traits" that we often think of it as!! this is huge, man, huge!

 

[sculpting]

From Wiki: "Epigenetic changes are preserved when cells divide. Most epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime, but some epigenetic changes are inherited from one generation to the next"

To the nature/nurture debate, the bolded proposition is bad enough. This means the part of genetic expression that is due to environment can carry over throughout the organism's life cycle - that means, literally, a bad environment in youth can "poison" you for life.

However, as to the debate about personality and genetic theories, the Italicized part is extremly damming/concerning. to put it in perspective, let me use a particular example: The house your biological father grew up in. It literally had an affect on his genetic expression. This effect could have lingered throughout his life and until and including the point you were conceived - then once his seed is gone, let's say he leaves and has no hand in raising you. What happens? His influence and his "nurture" are gone, right? Well no, many things happen to make up an organism, but epigenetics tells us its possible that the experience of your father's living inside the house he did lingers on throughout your own genetic expression. That's just one possibility.... when you think of ALL the powerful effects that environment has on an organism.... well, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure there's anything called "nature", at all, as far as this debate goes!

THIS MEANS THERE COULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO GENETIC/PHYSICAL BASIS FOR TYPE!! It could literally, entirely, be a carrying-over of environment effects from one generation to the next, the womb no longer being the filter for "bad traits" that we often think of it as!! this is huge, man, huge!

Noz, I dont want to deny this totally, but I would feel more comfortable (dude what an effin feeler I am) if epigentic influences could be shown to be heavily biologically influenced in some way-mom's age, health, nicotine consumption, and so on, rather than simply dad spending a few extra minutes hanging out at the house.

My only evidence is of course subjective, but my kids emerged from the womb as a FP and as a TJ. In the first ten minutes of birth my second kid was amazingly different in temperment already than the first. So I would place more confidence in looking at gestational epigenetic effects rather than early developmental effects on epigentics.

I'd suspect early developmental issues to more strongly drive abnormal development of the core personality type. Say if you are a feeler in a super thinker household. My little sister-in-law is an enfp in a house hold full of very strong Ts (thier motto is "if your gonna be dumb you'd better be tough"). She is now borderline personality and takes lots of meds.

 

[ygolo]

Interesting thread. I thought the only preference tied to biology would be Introvert-Extravert, and all the rest were developmental. Especially T vs. F.

Are you collecting all the parent-children lists in the OP?

Mom:IsTP
Dad:INfJ
Kids in Birth Order: (Male)Intp, (Female)eNfP, (Male)Isfp

Since we are wildly speculating, here are my thoughts:

Theory one:
All preferences as multiple-allele, J vs. P with P being recessive, S vs. N with N being recessive, F vs. T with T recessive, E vs. I with I being recessive. Though, the only preference where I can see evidence of one being recessive is N. Also, maybe T vs. F is tied to gender.

Theory Two:
All functions multiple allele, with expression of function being recessive.