• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Costrin and BlackCat's super duper typology overview (of doom)

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This thread will be used for Costrin and I to release prototype type profiles, theorize about typology and other subjects pertaining to typology. We are posting it here for your input as well, so we can further improve our understandings.

Here is the stuff we currently have-

INFP Profile by BlackCat
ISTJ Profile by BlackCat
INTP Profile by Costrin

More stuff later, ISTP profile by Costrin soon, ISFP profile by BlackCat soon. We may start working on these tomorrow (don't say "will," we ARE an INFP and an INTP working on this. :D).

We may also be getting an actual blog on a website for this, so that we won't have to bum a mod's mod powers to update this OP whenever we do something.
 
Last edited:

Costrin

rawr
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,320
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
Rawr.

Yeah the vast majority of ISTP profiles out there really suck. So I is/are gonna be doing ISTP.
I find this stems from a misunderstanding of Ti. So I may do a description of Ti first.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Random thoughts on Ti- It seems to be a lot like Fi in a sense that you store data and you take from it to apply to your life with Pe. Ti will gather in non-emotional data (it usually blows over this) and applies it to an inner network of knowledge. You will decide what is the best choice based on this network of knowledge, it's for decision making based on reason. This of course opens up vast possibilities as to what Ti could be used for in someone.
 

Apollanaut

Senior Mugwump
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
550
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Rawr.

Yeah the vast majority of ISTP profiles out there really suck. So I is/are gonna be doing ISTP.
I find this stems from a misunderstanding of Ti. So I may do a description of Ti first.

You are so right - ISTPs deserve a much more comprehensive and accurate type description. The few ISTPs I've known IRL don't identify very much with the limited and stereotyped available profiles. I could say the same for ISFPs, too!
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You crazy cats! I'll cattle-prod you from time to time with my J to encourage results! :cheese:
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
It's always helped to extract a bit of information from socionics Te, that ISTps have. I've always seen more connections in logic with ESTJ/ISTP than ESTP/ISTP (MBTI). It might just be an S thing. You can do it your way though. Keep up the work.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ISTJ profile in the works, the prototype will be posted shortly.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ISTJ PROFILE FINISHED! GO TO PAGE 2 TO GET A LINK! Or just check the SJ forum.
 

Costrin

rawr
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,320
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
So, in preparation of my ISTP profile, I decided to write a description of Ti. There are many misconceptions of what Ti is (specifically, the common conception of Ti is actually closer to TiNe), and an understanding of how it works is essential to understanding the ISTP.

First, what Ti is not:
Ti is not inherently logical.
Ti is not linear.
Ti is not theoretical.
Ti is not objective-oriented (though it is object-oriented).

Now that that's out of the way, my Ti description:

Introverted Thinking
Ti is an introverted judging process. It takes data given by Extraverted Perceiving and judges it. Ti basically takes the data, and “melds” with it, it analyzes it from all angles until it understands the essential qualities of it completely. This is a non-linear, almost unconscious process, and it does not make use of logic. The logic of Ti comes from the fact that the data is understood completely, including all the rules of how it operates, which is logical. For example, if you use a hammer on a nail, Ti figures out how the force of the hammer causes the nail to be driven into the wood, and how far, and at what angle, etc. It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area, length of the nail, density of the wood, angle the nail is hit, etc and preform a lengthy and complicated math problem. As you can see, Te is just plain inefficient here (ironically, considering Te is all about efficiency). Furthermore, Ti is experiential. It relies upon actual real world data seen personally by the individual. Here is where much of the confusion arises. Because of the nature of Ne, it allows you to see things that don't actually physically exist, and Ti is able to utilize that data, but fundamentally, the individual is still experiencing it. The experiential nature of Ti is much more noticeable when paired with Se. Se gives physical external data which Ti uses. The above hammer example is TiSe in action. Another place where Ti is evident is in music. Where a Te approach to learning to play an instrument would be to learn the scales and chords and how to read sheet music and all that, Ti would learn by doing. It would learn by experimenting with the instrument, by listening to music and hearing the underlying structure and then applying that to the individual's own playing. It learns how different sounds fit together by hearing it, as opposed to someone telling you for example, “the first plus third plus fifth notes in a scale make a major chord which sounds good” in a very mathematical and mechanical way.

And stuff. Yes I know it needs editing, I'll do that later.
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Knight is a great visual reference, but I suspect troublesome when applied to female ISTJs.
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
Female knight is a dame.

jof.dame.licorne.360.jpg
 

Shadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
453
MBTI Type
INTJ
Knight is a great visual reference, but I suspect troublesome when applied to female ISTJs.

As a female ISTJ, I think it's a pretty awesome visual reference!
I may be atypical.
The profile's great so far though BlackCat ;) You've been with us too much.
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
So, in preparation of my ISTP profile, I decided to write a description of Ti. There are many misconceptions of what Ti is (specifically, the common conception of Ti is actually closer to TiNe), and an understanding of how it works is essential to understanding the ISTP.

First, what Ti is not:
Ti is not inherently logical.
Ti is not linear.
Ti is not theoretical.
Ti is not objective-oriented (though it is object-oriented).

Now that that's out of the way, my Ti description:

Introverted Thinking
Ti is an introverted judging process. It takes data given by Extraverted Perceiving and judges it. Ti basically takes the data, and “melds” with it, it analyzes it from all angles until it understands the essential qualities of it completely. This is a non-linear, almost unconscious process, and it does not make use of logic. The logic of Ti comes from the fact that the data is understood completely, including all the rules of how it operates, which is logical. For example, if you use a hammer on a nail, Ti figures out how the force of the hammer causes the nail to be driven into the wood, and how far, and at what angle, etc. It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area, length of the nail, density of the wood, angle the nail is hit, etc and preform a lengthy and complicated math problem. As you can see, Te is just plain inefficient here (ironically, considering Te is all about efficiency). Furthermore, Ti is experiential. It relies upon actual real world data seen personally by the individual. Here is where much of the confusion arises. Because of the nature of Ne, it allows you to see things that don't actually physically exist, and Ti is able to utilize that data, but fundamentally, the individual is still experiencing it. The experiential nature of Ti is much more noticeable when paired with Se. Se gives physical external data which Ti uses. The above hammer example is TiSe in action. Another place where Ti is evident is in music. Where a Te approach to learning to play an instrument would be to learn the scales and chords and how to read sheet music and all that, Ti would learn by doing. It would learn by experimenting with the instrument, by listening to music and hearing the underlying structure and then applying that to the individual's own playing. It learns how different sounds fit together by hearing it, as opposed to someone telling you for example, “the first plus third plus fifth notes in a scale make a major chord which sounds good” in a very mathematical and mechanical way.

And stuff. Yes I know it needs editing, I'll do that later.

Great job Costrin. You almost made me cry.

Is it just me or do INTPs (or possibly INTs in general) have a large knowledge base? What will explain this in your INTP profile Costrin? (just as a little reminder) and will this supersede that of the ISTJ? (with primary Si) This is aside from your ISTP profile.
 

Bamboo

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
2,689
MBTI Type
XXFP
So, in preparation of my ISTP profile, I decided to write a description of Ti. There are many misconceptions of what Ti is (specifically, the common conception of Ti is actually closer to TiNe), and an understanding of how it works is essential to understanding the ISTP.

First, what Ti is not:
Ti is not inherently logical.
Ti is not linear.
Ti is not theoretical.
Ti is not objective-oriented (though it is object-oriented).

Now that that's out of the way, my Ti description:

Introverted Thinking
Ti is an introverted judging process. It takes data given by Extraverted Perceiving and judges it. Ti basically takes the data, and “melds” with it, it analyzes it from all angles until it understands the essential qualities of it completely. This is a non-linear, almost unconscious process, and it does not make use of logic. The logic of Ti comes from the fact that the data is understood completely, including all the rules of how it operates, which is logical. For example, if you use a hammer on a nail, Ti figures out how the force of the hammer causes the nail to be driven into the wood, and how far, and at what angle, etc. It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area, length of the nail, density of the wood, angle the nail is hit, etc and preform a lengthy and complicated math problem. As you can see, Te is just plain inefficient here (ironically, considering Te is all about efficiency). Furthermore, Ti is experiential. It relies upon actual real world data seen personally by the individual. Here is where much of the confusion arises. Because of the nature of Ne, it allows you to see things that don't actually physically exist, and Ti is able to utilize that data, but fundamentally, the individual is still experiencing it. The experiential nature of Ti is much more noticeable when paired with Se. Se gives physical external data which Ti uses. The above hammer example is TiSe in action. Another place where Ti is evident is in music. Where a Te approach to learning to play an instrument would be to learn the scales and chords and how to read sheet music and all that, Ti would learn by doing. It would learn by experimenting with the instrument, by listening to music and hearing the underlying structure and then applying that to the individual's own playing. It learns how different sounds fit together by hearing it, as opposed to someone telling you for example, “the first plus third plus fifth notes in a scale make a major chord which sounds good” in a very mathematical and mechanical way.

And stuff. Yes I know it needs editing, I'll do that later.

I liked it. This description was Ti and Se based. Can you do a Ti and Ne description to contrast?

Just an idea, I know that means I'm making more work for you.
 

Costrin

rawr
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,320
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
I liked it. This description was Ti and Se based. Can you do a Ti and Ne description to contrast?

Just an idea, I know that means I'm making more work for you.

Hmm...

Basically something like this:
Ne observes something and comes up with a possibility for why it happened, or how the situation can evolve in the future. Ti then analyzes those possibilities, "melds" with them, and understands the fundamentals of them. The possibilities are then compares with already integrated data stored in memory to see where it fits in the puzzle. If the piece fits, then it is stored. When new data is gathered, it is analyzed and compared to the mental model, and it's place found. If it contradicts the model, it is determined whether the new data fits the data better, or if the old data does, and the loser gets thrown out.

For example:
While learning typology, I come up with a bunch of various explanations of how say, Ti works. My primary reference point was myself, with secondary reference points being others. I would come up with a description, and Ti would evaluate and say "that fits the data, it must be correct." As I gathered more data, and came up with more explanations, Ti would say "that explanation fits the data better, so it is correct" and then a new explanation, and a new one, ad infinitum until I arrived at my current one.

Another example:
Economics. The economical data is taken in, and explanations for why that happened are formed, and theories on what is going to happen in the future are formed. Each possibility is assessed by Ti for how well it fits the data, and is integrated or dismissed accordingly, and a mental model is formed. When the situation changes, the new data is compared to the model, and the model is refined accordingly.

As is apparent, Si is necessary in order to ground INTPs to reality. Si details basically act as anchors keeping the boat from drifting away. Likely similiar for ISTPs, Ni ties the otherwise disparate Se data together.

And stuff.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area...
A short note: Don't you think this comparison is true in general of introverted functions vs. extroverted functions?
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Okay, so I've been working on this ISTJ profile and everything has been going great until I got to the non dominant function descriptions. Care to help ISTJs? By the way this is a prototype, it's subject to change if something is inaccurate.

Extroverted Intuition, Ne-
I'm not one, but I've been close to enough of them.

They generally like both science fiction as well as theory, and do have a capacity for exploring possibilities, and other abstract things. It just takes a back seat to their past-focused concrete awareness.
 
Top