Prejudice against Sensors?

[nightning]

That, and that the other three elements have as large if not larger costs that span a large spectrum... It irritates me to, essentially hear, "We stereotype Ss because they aren't as 'good' [according to some metric or another], but it's so tough being an N" in every single one of these threads.

<In before "you'd understand if you were an N".>

Ns want to have their cake and eat it too... Fair enough assessment. To some extent I've been guilty of doing so... ranting that I don't fit in and the general population of Ss don't understand. Kind of ironic if you think about it.

I think it's not so much the actual percentages, but the vague impression and perception of type distribution that people rely on. Nothing more than an excuse to support their "right" to whine and complain and assign judgment on others.

 

[prplchknz]

I sometimes wish I was an S so people aren't like 60% of the time I open my mouth. It's better then hating on S's because I can just hate on myself, and no one gets their feelings hurt.

 

[ptgatsby]

I can see this in terms of being a "dreamer" and such. However the development of cognitive processing in children moves from concrete to abstract. Children are especially "hands on". If you want to teach a child a new idea, it is ineffective to present a theory. They have to feel, see, taste, and smell each concept or they don't learn. There is also a stage of development that is rule-bound(elementary age), so information is best presented in clear, rather absolute terms. It is only after this stage, during adolescence that cognitive processing allows for examining grey areas and uncertainties. It is interesting that all this is balanced also with the childhood focus on imagination.

It is interesting that the misunderstood dreamer is such a fundamental part of our cultural narrative. It is consistent in Disney, but clearly exists in novels and movies intended for adults (although not with the same absolute consistency) I don't have a specific conclusion on everything this implies, but it does seem rather compelling especially in relation to this particular discussion.

Good points. I'm kind of mixed on that though, seeing how much children play make-believe. That's the part I identify with the Disney "dreamer" - injecting themselves inside that world.

But what you say is true too. Wonder how much of it is adult assumptions - seeing children playing with dolls, or dress up and all that - and putting an adult spin on it. See it happen with dogs all the time Why not with kids!

 

[pure_mercury]

Ahhh dude I just got your signature. Had to pronounce it out loud. Cute!

Cute AND disturbing! Just like me.

 

[pure_mercury]

I sometimes wish I was an S so people aren't like 60% of the time I open my mouth. It's better then hating on S's because I can just hate on myself, and no one gets their feelings hurt.

You should be happy with the person you are!

 

[Tigerlily]

I sometimes wish I was an S so people aren't like 60% of the time I open my mouth. It's better then hating on S's because I can just hate on myself, and no one gets their feelings hurt.

i suffer from this too, so you're not alone. you'll adjust and things will improve. and give yourself one too. really. stop what you're doing and give yourself a hug. you're amazing and you can always count on you.

 

[ptgatsby]

i suffer from this too, so you're not alone

Heh, try having the "singularity" concepts or "brain as evolution of movement system" conversations in RL (both are in my blog here ). The eye rolling reaches epic proportions.

Although, to this day, I think the most eye-rolling thing I have come across is when I tried explaining that genetic algorithms might be able to design better cities, including those on other planets, as it can adapt to different environments. Eh.

I roll my eyes at others too, notably those in my philosophy. I couldn't even handle it in school - dropped out, disillusioned. We all have our things, I think.

 

[Giggly]

Haven't gotten very far through the rather prolific-ness, but I just have to say this post is kind of genius, Hmm. I am totally socially awkward, and dammit, I kind of like sometimes being told I'm normal and feeling like some sort of social idiot savant.

This probably speaks to some sort of messed-up ego stuff in myself, but fuck it.

Exactly. Now lets try to make it to the Winchester!

Life is what you make of it. Stop crying and move on.

Often I forget that many people (both men and women) aren't really looking for solutions to their problems, they just want to discuss them. There is a relief they get from it.

I sometimes wish I was an S so people aren't like 60% of the time I open my mouth. It's better then hating on S's because I can just hate on myself, and no one gets their feelings hurt.

S's can't escape from the look either.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Life is what you make of it. Stop crying and move on.

Yay! Thank heavens for this.

But seriously .....

As I have stated a few times now in a few different ways in this thread, I think this whole question revolves more around the expression of life stages than anything else.

Consider the following:

erik erikson life stages

I would estimate that a good majority of folks here on the forum are in life stages focussed on esteem, on developing self-identity, and then desiring and learning to share that identity with another person. This is a time when you are most keenly trying to forge your sense of self AND trying to be accepted by others AND trying to merge in one-to-one relationships.

SO, it's natural that the differences you feel between S & N are most keenly observed in your teens and twenties. And as an N, you realize you are a little different from the majority and thus some of these tasks seem so much harder.

Hey, I know. I was there too.

But, when you get a few more miles on the odometer, these differences will fade and certainly seem less important than they once did. You realize you need to embrace all parts of yourself, nurture and honor your traits, and grow your "lesser" functions. You thus become attracted naturally to people who have the strengths that you yourself need to build. The very traits you least possess (and for some here, despise) are ironically the ones you need to grow!

And as you gain more confidence in your uniqueness, you learn you have much to offer the world! For N's, all the S's realize in order to get past the "glass ceiling" they have to use more of the skills that N's find naturally easier to use. SO, your capabilities are a big asset! You can be a great example to others! It is in your best interests to embrace all the other "types" and learn as much as you can from them!

That's what drives me a little crazy here sometimes - life is a perpetual learning curve. Don't just seek out "like" - use your N skills to intuit, to understand what is required to thrive in certain situations and do it!

Have i got it down-pat yet? Nope. But I'm working on balancing it all the time.

 

[Geoff]

Yay! Thank heavens for this.

But seriously .....

As I have stated a few times now in a few different ways in this thread, I think this whole question revolves more around the expression of life stages than anything else.

Consider the following:

erik erikson life stages

I would estimate that a good majority of folks here on the forum are in life stages focussed on esteem, on developing self-identity, and then desiring and learning to share that identity with another person. This is a time when you are most keenly trying to forge your sense of self AND trying to be accepted by others AND trying to merge in one-to-one relationships.

SO, it's natural that the differences you feel between S & N are most keenly observed in your teens and twenties. And as an N, you realize you are a little different from the majority and thus some of these tasks seem so much harder.

Hey, I know. I was there too.

But, when you get a few more miles on the odometer, these differences will fade and certainly seem less important than they once did. You realize you need to embrace all parts of yourself, nurture and honor your traits, and grow your "lesser" functions. You thus become attracted naturally to people who have the strengths that you yourself need to build. The very traits you least possess (and for some here, despise) are ironically the ones you need to grow!

And as you gain more confidence in your uniqueness, you learn you have much to offer the world! For N's, all the S's realize in order to get past the "glass ceiling" they have to use more of the skills that N's find naturally easier to use. SO, your capabilities are a big asset! You can be a great example to others! It is in your best interests to embrace all the other "types" and learn as much as you can from them!

That's what drives me a little crazy here sometimes - life is a perpetual learning curve. Don't just seek out "like" - use your N skills to intuit, to understand what is required to thrive in certain situations and do it!

Have i got it down-pat yet? Nope. But I'm working on balancing it all the time.

Some good advice in there. All I'd add is that N's can also learn some glass ceiling stuff from the S's too - like being good enough at important details to run a department, or notice when something is bothering a member of staff.

 

[Siegfried]

Yay! Thank heavens for this.

But seriously .....

As I have stated a few times now in a few different ways in this thread, I think this whole question revolves more around the expression of life stages than anything else.

Consider the following:

erik erikson life stages

I would estimate that a good majority of folks here on the forum are in life stages focussed on esteem, on developing self-identity, and then desiring and learning to share that identity with another person. This is a time when you are most keenly trying to forge your sense of self AND trying to be accepted by others AND trying to merge in one-to-one relationships.

SO, it's natural that the differences you feel between S & N are most keenly observed in your teens and twenties. And as an N, you realize you are a little different from the majority and thus some of these tasks seem so much harder.

Hey, I know. I was there too.

But, when you get a few more miles on the odometer, these differences will fade and certainly seem less important than they once did. You realize you need to embrace all parts of yourself, nurture and honor your traits, and grow your "lesser" functions. You thus become attracted naturally to people who have the strengths that you yourself need to build. The very traits you least possess (and for some here, despise) are ironically the ones you need to grow!

And as you gain more confidence in your uniqueness, you learn you have much to offer the world! For N's, all the S's realize in order to get past the "glass ceiling" they have to use more of the skills that N's find naturally easier to use. SO, your capabilities are a big asset! You can be a great example to others! It is in your best interests to embrace all the other "types" and learn as much as you can from them!

That's what drives me a little crazy here sometimes - life is a perpetual learning curve. Don't just seek out "like" - use your N skills to intuit, to understand what is required to thrive in certain situations and do it!

Have i got it down-pat yet? Nope. But I'm working on balancing it all the time.

Good points, that article was pretty helpful aswell. One has to grow the weaker functions, in order to be able to truly reach great personal growth. There is much that can be learned from ESxx types, by limiting type understanding to one's own, can lose the chance to have a broader perspective. I agree with the point you made about learning to thrive in situations, rather than being in a comfort zone, that is more conducive to long term.

Having developed all eight cognitive processes to an effective level, will allow the natural strengths of our personality to flourish even better. I am learning much about the other cognitive processes and plan to keep trying to revitalise my thought processes and actions. There is much that I have learnt and much more one has to, as always.

 

[simulatedworld]

If we take seriously the prejudice thrown at the sensors, then it must mean intuitives are incapable of realizing the real world around them, and same with the thinking/feeling dichotomy, and pretty soon, this world then is populated by unbalanced messed up individuals, with the intuits banging into walls and falling over cliffs, while the sensors can't figure out how time moved from here & now, to...then. And feelers are just in the corner their eyes out while thinkers, even with their great skills, are left at this world around us. Yes! On, with the merits of such prejudice. It makes perfect sense in the real world.

Yeah, I got your point, and it makes sense. It is important to remember to take MBTI with a grain of salt, because so many dramatically different people exist under every type label.

But I think what Heart is saying is that INFJs are *typically* not as good, on average, at warfare as certain other types. That's kind of what I meant with the whole "generalization" thing...your boyfriend is probably the exception, here. Nobody is saying that those exceptions don't exist, but when we use something like MBTI to make broad guesses, people in the minority will unfortunately get passed over at times.

Most INFJs I know are opposed to the concept of warfare on principle. That doesn't mean, if I were an army recruiter, that I would turn someone down for service on the basis of being INFJ--that'd be ridiculous discrimination. But it does mean that most people of the INFJ type are probably predisposed to choose a different line of work.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't know if i could be an S, its not that I hate them, I don't see i even said i wish i could be one, but my brain doesn't work well with concrete its like even if I try to focus on the present I'm like this reminds me of this....or what if....and then it goes from their and I'm panic because I'm like Oh god! the world's going to end and wait what? oh a wall hmm probably should turn now...quit being ridiculous the world isn't going to end, well maybe, but not very soon, ok cool. we cool? yes. good. now cross the street before the light turns. my thought process 70% of the time. of course I do notice walls before I bang into them I'm not THAT unaware of my surroundings.

teach me to be a sensor, i want to learn

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I don't know if i could be an S, its not that I hate them, I don't see i even said i wish i could be one, but my brain doesn't work well with concrete its like even if I try to focus on the present I'm like this reminds me of this....or what if....and then it goes from their and I'm panic because I'm like Oh god! the world's going to end and wait what? oh a wall hmm probably should turn now...quit being ridiculous the world isn't going to end, well maybe, but not very soon, ok cool. we cool? yes. good. now cross the street before the light turns. my thought process 70% of the time. of course I do notice walls before I bang into them I'm not THAT unaware of my surroundings.

 

[Little Linguist]

I don't know if i could be an S, its not that I hate them, I don't see i even said i wish i could be one, but my brain doesn't work well with concrete its like even if I try to focus on the present I'm like this reminds me of this....or what if....and then it goes from their and I'm panic because I'm like Oh god! the world's going to end and wait what? oh a wall hmm probably should turn now...quit being ridiculous the world isn't going to end, well maybe, but not very soon, ok cool. we cool? yes. good. now cross the street before the light turns. my thought process 70% of the time. of course I do notice walls before I bang into them I'm not THAT unaware of my surroundings.

And you say you aren't Ne dominant.

I really, really, really want to be ESFP - but I'm too much of a sensotard...I mean my INTJ husband has better sensing facilities than I have...*sigh*

Here's some examples of my tangents, which kind of prove I couldn't be Se dom. Instead of saying, wow look at his hair, take a look at that woman, wow, pretty flower, ha awesome car, damn I'm hungry, I think of things like this:

"I guess I caused a fuss, but who cares? Causing a fuss often generates meaningful results.

Speaking of results, why doesn't this guy improve? Is it her method or the guy's incapacity to think properly? And why aren't my other students here yet?

Man, I hate it when people are late. I mean, okay, sometimes there are reasons, but most of the time it is rude.

Okay, perhaps I should not have been as flaming in the post I wrote, but I think it is fun to set fire under people's asses, which is why my agenda is to encourage all the crazy people to eat potato salad and fart to the moon.

Speaking of potato salad, I need to go shopping. But I really do not care, so I will do it tomorrow. Damn, I am such a procrastinator. I even procrastinate with improving on that fault.

What do I have to prepare for tomorrow? Did I miss something? I have the weird feeling I did. I probably won't even get paid for these people not coming to my lesson. But the month was good, so maybe I can do some shopping. Man, I hate shopping. I should get a personal buyer, but I do not have the money.

I wonder which type likes to go shopping. Whatever it is, it is totally antithetical to me. For sure. I practically cry whenever I have to go shopping.

Why do I cry so much? I cry when I am sad. I cry when others are sad. Hell, I even cry when I am really happy. Or frustrated. Or excited. Hmm. I wonder if other people are like that? Or am I just strange.

Well, surely I am.

Speaking of strange, I would like to listen to George Carlin. Why is it when other people listen to him, and he could be much more offensive and stuff, people think he is funny, and I make one little curious post about something to dispel misinterpretations, and people flip out? Oh well, people are stupid anyway, so who gives a damn?

Damn...it is hot...as hell. Time to get something to drink. Or go swimming. I could have gone swimming if these people had canceled. Guess I have to go to the gym tomorrow.


Pfft, I have enough to handle with my husband, but I am perfectly happy."

BANG!!!!!!!!!!!

"Oh fuck, I just banged my head against the wall. Shit, I need to stop thinking like this! Perhaps if I learned how to focus better I could just..."<random movie quote pops into head> Hey I could watch that movie, oh yes and...." <voice fade out>

Or when I'm feeling more existentialist, this:

"I wonder from whence I came...what existence before and after death means, or if it even exists. I wonder what this little thing called a soul means. I wonder if it is there, and if so, what encompases "soul"? Is it in the mind? Is it the part of the brain we do not use? If not, what happens to it after we die? Do people that die exist in some way, or is this some kind of bizarre fabrication to make us feel better? Where do feelings come from? Is it simply a combination of chemical processes and hormones, or is there something deeper? And what makes two people know they are right for each other or not? And is there A person for everyone? If so, how was this determined? If this is simply a bunch of chemical processes...well...then can we go without relationships or would our chemical processes be disturbed, therefore we need relationships simply as a means to procreate? If so, does that mean this whole soul thing was simply a fabrication? If so, what is the rest of the brain and what does it do - or is it simply there in case something goes wrong and new pathways have to be created - as a sort of bizarre insurance policy? Who used their brains the most? Is it a crazy genius? IF so, is that why he cannot deal as well with people and maintain relationships? Why do we all try to procreate anyhow? What is our purpose? How will we evolve? Surely human beings are not the end of the evolutionary chain. What will happen in a million years? And what will happen five billion years from now after the sun turns into a giant red ball of flaming gas before it finally dies? If we are the end of the evolutionary chain, imagine how much it would blow if you realized - CRAP THE SUN IS DYING and we are all gonna die in a flaming gas ball!!! Does that mean humans could live on PLUTO? And when it dies, are there other life forms that see this as simply a star that no longer exists? Uh, yeah...you get the point...."

BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <drops to the floor>

"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKK!! I'm always tripping over shit!!!! When am I going to stop doing that? Which reminds me of this thread I read on TC....."<voice fade out>

Besides, Jeffster already told me there is no effing way I could be an ESFP...

But I still love you guyssssssssssss...I wish I could live for the moment, just be flippant and say effffffffffff itttttttttttt I'm going to start my business, and if it doesn't work I'll end up in a ball of flames like in that Simpson's film and ferrrrrrk it!!!!! Let's go skinny dipping and paragliding.

(Oh crap, my Ne is active, even when I try to be an SP. CRAP!!!!!!!!)

 

[Jeffster]

teach me to be a sensor, i want to learn

I have already been teaching you, young one.

For you regularly remember the color of my shirt.

You are on your way.

 

[heart]

That, and that the other three elements have as large if not larger costs that span a large spectrum... It irritates me to, essentially hear, "We stereotype Ss because they aren't as 'good' [according to some metric or another], but it's so tough being an N" in every single one of these threads.

<In before "you'd understand if you were an N".>

I criticize only those S type people who assume their way is the best/only way and I criticize them most for being difficult to deal with because of this. On this board when I do this I am accused of being prejudiced and being too critical.

Yet I could criticize Extroverts, Thinkers and J's all day and night for more basic, stereotypical and incorrect aspects and people would hardly bat an eyelash...it's just this S-N area that has developed a strange sort of political correctness, like it's a sacred cow or something.

Are sensors so delicate that they alone of all the preferences need blanket protection to criticize N without being criticized back for being critical?

 

[Jeffster]

...it's just this S-N area that has developed a strange sort of political correctness, like it's a sacred cow or something.

According to who?

 

[heart]

According to who?

Oh read the posts on this board. Anyone who says anything that isn't 100 percent rainbows and sunshine about sensors is said to tbe attacking a sacred cow that must be protected.

So other preference gets this sort of treatment.

 

[pure_mercury]

Oh read the posts on this board. Anyone who says anything that isn't 100 percent rainbows and sunshine about sensors is said to tbe attacking a sacred cow that must be protected.

So other preference gets this sort of treatment.

And yet, Ns still complain about mistreatment IRL. So, Ns come online to commiserate about how Ss don't understand them IRL (and, often, take no responsibility for the lack of two-way communication), then they complain that Ss are too sensitive to criticism online? That is the definition of "double standard."