S and N in real life

[raz]

I see that you did not get it. I am not talking about long periods I talk about period of few days or just about few hours. I am talking about changing yourself so fast that people can't keep track of it or having a paralel value system that are developed with plans.

On the other hand maybe you can't relate since you are not T.
Some time ago I come a across the article that says that this is a caracteristic of expressed INTJs (which is my case).
What makes sense.


First I makes you unsocial so you are "free" and people don't affect you that much. Which means you are free to plan your life as you like.

Strong N gives you the ability to see the future to some degree what is very good for planning. Plus you are not in contact with reality.

Strong T makes you impersonal and calm and in conection with the first two stops the creation to of big and solid value system.

While J pushes everything forward and makes sure you are not too passive.


I think that is the main reason why INTJs are probably the most likely type to be accused that they don't have a soul.

Exactly. That's why INTJs are considered the most independent thinkers. They're the most unaffected by the world around them. I admire INTJs for that reason. Even as an ISTJ, I can shut out the world at times, but the S grounds me in reality and makes me have instinctual reactions to what my senses tell me.

Like, for instance, I work with an INTJ girl. I was talking to her when we were clocking out about the weather outside. I was just joking saying it was snowing even though it stopped a few days ago. She said, "But, what about the snow in your head?" I just laughed because I'm used to her making those kinds of off the wall comments. Afterward, she went on to make this long interpretation of the snow in your head thing which I missed. She goes off making conversation about things that are REMOTELY related to what we're actually talking about and I bet she loves that she can lose me in an instant when she jumps to different points in topics.

 

[Lightyear]

Exactly. That's why INTJs are considered the most independent thinkers. They're the most unaffected by the world around them.

So I guess ESFPs would be the one's most affected by the world around them. That makes them great people people but I guess they are also really dependent on what others think of them.

As an INFJ I am very opinionated and independent on the inside but my F keeps me from being too vocal or confrontational about my views, I just don't like to hurt or offend people.

 

[Lady_X]

Here's some more stuff I've written on the subject

"I always think very, very abstractly. I've got a horrible memory, I'm scatterbrained and don't think sequentially, and I lack attention to detail. It also means that I have a pretty good ability to forecast, pick up on patterns and hidden meanings, do many new things as if I've done them before, and suddenly realize solutions to problems without even thinking them through first.

I realize my life goals and learn new things very, very quickly. I feel like I'm on autopilot most of the time, as if the present moment is just the background to my thoughts."

me too! and now i know why...i remember trying to explain it to my mother and saying that i felt so disconnected from my body...like it was floating around doing things and i was somewhere else...and she said i can tell...haha

 

[something boring]

Sensors accuse of Intuitives for being on drugs when they're just being themselves.

Lol I get that a lot...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Exactly. That's why INTJs are considered the most independent thinkers. They're the most unaffected by the world around them. I admire INTJs for that reason. Even as an ISTJ, I can shut out the world at times, but the S grounds me in reality and makes me have instinctual reactions to what my senses tell me.

It makes sense.
Yes, that makes you very independent but being a INT means you are retard on 3 different ways.

I can turn your post around.
You know how is it like to be IT. Now imagine that you are not even in contact with reality. That is good on many ways but with this combination you can be a way too detached form pretty much everything.

 

[phoenity]

I was able to see an example of a friend, whom I've always known thought slightly different than me, but I had never paid attention to those differences. So last night, I paid attention to his thinking. Things he talks about, things he notices, and how they are different than mine.

I realized he is an INTP.

Basically, what led me to realize his intuition was his lack of natural sensing of things that are in his environment. We were hanging out on the deck of his apartment, and my ESFP friend brought up the hotel building that is adjacent to his building. Then we noticed the people that were coming in and out of it, and the noise they were making, talking on their phones, or to each other.

What he said sounded very strange to me: "You know, I don't even notice that building or those people are there." Personally, I can't help but to notice it's there, simply because it's in my line of sight, and those people making noise brought my attention to them"

I was quite intrigued. "What do you mean you don't even notice it's there? Personally, I can't help but to notice it's there, simply because it's in my line of sight, and those people making noise brought my attention to them"


He explained, "Well, hmm, it's like I'll notice if I make an effort to notice it, but I have to make an effort to look at it, think and process about what it actually is. I have to redo this everytime I want to realize that it's a Marriot hotel building. If I don't have a need to realize it's a Marriot hotel, I just don't think about it, and I sort of just goes out of my mind"

Later, we walked back into his apartment and into the kitchen for some more beers. He went to use the sink, and noticed that his girlfriend had placed her aloe plant in the sink.

INTP: "What's wrong with this plant??"
GF: "Huh? Oh I just put it in there to water it..."
INTP: "Oh, ok..."

Since I had been observing his behavior and thinking looking to understand him, I immediately noticed this since, were I in that situation, I would not have questioned why the plant was in the sink, because without even realizing I had noticed it, I knew that I noticed the plant, and I also noticed that it was a healthy, green plant, and that the dirt was rich and dark and moist, obviously having been freshly watered. I wouldn't even have questioned its presence there, unless my mind had noticed that something looked wrong with it.

So this intrigued me even more. How could it be that we are so different? What did he notice that I didn't for him to think there was something wrong with it? So I asked, "What exactly looks like is wrong with it?" I guess that forced him to take a real look at the plant, from his unnatural sensing perspective, "Hmm, well I don't really see anything physically wrong with it. I guess it's just that, well, it's not usually in the sink, so I thought there was something wrong with it for it to be in there!"

I made a laughing joke about him assuming there was something wrong with it just because it was in the sink. We all enjoyed it.


So, I observed his behavior and noticed that he didn't have a natural sensing preference for noticing things in his environment. But when I think about it, it still doesn't give me any idea of what he does actually think about.

As a sensor, I think it might be impossible to fully understand. Unless I was able to get inside their brain and look through their eyes, and "see" the thought processes as they were going on.

I think I will have to hang out with him more and do some more observation.

 

[Jeffster]

He explained, "Well, hmm, it's like I'll notice if I make an effort to notice it...

OMG MY INTP BROTHER SAYS "WELL, HMM"!!

Sorry, man. Good post.

 

[phoenity]

OMG MY INTP BROTHER SAYS "WELL, HMM"!!

Sorry, man. Good post.

I don't remember if he said those exact words. I was just including that in my story to emphasize the fact that he really had to think about it, and that I noticed it wasn't natural for him to do so.

Thanks

 

[OrangeAppled]

As an INFP, I definitely can walk around in a cloud and be oblivious to things/people, but other times I can be very attuned to my environment. I certainly enjoy my senses and am very sensitive to subtleties in color, sound, and taste. Like, one time my mom used a cheddar cheese from a different state and I knew immediately just by tasting it. I can also tell when a print job comes back and there is just ever so slightly too much cyan or magenta used.
I always notice when someone has a new haircut, a new outfit, has tried a new lipstick color, etc. For being so lost in a daydream, I still notice and appreciate little details. I definitely don't feel blind or deaf (mute, maybe, haha).

 

[phoenity]

Like, one time my mom used a cheddar cheese from a different state and I knew immediately just by tasting it. I can also tell when a print job comes back and there is just ever so slightly too much cyan or magenta used.

I always notice when someone has a new haircut, a new outfit, has tried a new lipstick color, etc. For being so lost in a daydream, I still notice and appreciate little details. I definitely don't feel blind or deaf (mute, maybe, haha).

Sounds like Si to me. You notice these things because you put an effort into noticing them. It's also your tertiary function.

The difference between you and I would be that, whereas you notice specific things that have personal meaning to you, I "see" and process EVERYTHING via thinking that my senses take in. I do this in such a concrete, automatic, way of taking in information, that I don't process these things via intuition unless there is something I'm trying to figure out about things that are related, or I need a deeper understanding of.

There is just WAY too much sensory information coming in and thinking going on about what I'm seeing in real time, much like a video camera recording, to start floating off thinking about things completely unrelated. Not that they would be "unrelated" to intuitive types, but it's just the way I see it.

The way I would describe it that you may understand is how a dog's mind works processing incoming sensory information. You know how there's nothing a dog doesn't hear, see or smell?

A dog senses something, so his natural instinct is to further investigate his environment.

 

[OrangeAppled]

^ That totally makes sense. I suppose I just wanted to make a small point because sometimes people think SPs are the only ones who have an "eye". Of course, NFs have a 3rd eye

 

[Virtual ghost]

Few questions for S people.


How do you deal with idea that everything you see, hear, taste ............ is nothing more then a picture created by your brain?

Do you ever think about this?
Do you tend to ignore the idea, even if you accept it as the truth?
Does this concept scares you ?

 

[/DG/]

Few questions for S people.


How do you deal with idea that everything you see, hear, taste ............ is nothing more then a picture created by your brain?

Do you ever think about this?

No.

Do you tend to ignore the idea, even if you accept it as the truth?

I could care less.

Does this concept scare you?

No.

 

[phoenity]

Few questions for S people.


How do you deal with idea that everything you see, hear, taste ............ is nothing more then a picture created by your brain?

Do you ever think about this?
Do you tend to ignore the idea, even if you accept it as the truth?
Does this concept scares you ?

No. I accept it as the truth, because my perceptions have been consistent throughout my life, and they will remain consistent throughout the rest of it.

What's the point in thinking about it like that, much less worrying about it? What does it change?

If I ever saw a banana transform into monkey, and I wasn't high off my ass, then I might have reason to be concerned.

Does that concept scare you? What else do you think about when you think about it?


I want to explain something a little deeper. Describing a sensation as simply a "picture" seems incredibly insufficient. A sensation, to me, is an experience of life in itself - it just doesn't get any more real than this. I don't even know if the language exists to sufficiently describe what I feel when I am experiencing sensation. My mind stores "pictures" to remember these experiences, but these pictures are never as real as they are when I am immersed in the experience.

 

[phoenity]

^ That totally makes sense. I suppose I just wanted to make a small point because sometimes people think SPs are the only ones who have an "eye". Of course, NFs have a 3rd eye

It was an excellent point you made. Everyone has the capability to see what we see. It's very interesting to realize it's not so automatic or machine-like for everyone.

It's very overwhelming at times. It makes it nearly impossible for me to think in terms of past or future, simply because there is so much information coming in about the present.

If I want to think about past or future, and relate them to what I'm presently seeing, I have to consciously "stop" seeing, and dedicate CPU resources to do that. The best way for me to do this is in a very "plain" environment with little to no sensory stimuli, otherwise I get distracted and break my train of thought. Small white room with padded walls, anyone?

Please correct me if my perception is wrong, but it seems that intuition can sense something, and the mind automatically starts relating it or thinking about other things, either past or future, usually having little to do with what was actually sensed in the present situation.

Intuition intrigues me. Could someone give an example of how it works as a real-time process?

 

[Randomnity]

Few questions for S people.


How do you deal with idea that everything you see, hear, taste ............ is nothing more then a picture created by your brain?

Do you ever think about this?
Do you tend to ignore the idea, even if you accept it as the truth?
Does this concept scares you ?

I thought about it a few times when I was a child (related to thoughts about religion). It was a pretty cool idea. I bored of it quickly though (just like wondering about god), because ultimately there isn't any point to it - you can only live your life based on what you perceive to be the truth.

I don't think of it now for that reason, and therefore it doesn't scare me, just like I don't worry about the sun randomly exploding or an asteroid hitting us. Pointless.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Please correct me if my perception is wrong, but it seems that intuition can sense something, and the mind automatically starts relating it or thinking about other things, either past or future, usually having little to do with what was actually sensed in the present situation.

Intuition intrigues me. Could someone give an example of how it works as a real-time process?

Yes, we tend to relate things to seemingly unrelated things. Then we're off in another world for a bit after a thought has been triggered.
The real time process...usually that's right about the time we smack into a pole .

I have trouble "living in the moment" and envy that of others. Being in the moment feels very surreal to me, and I often feel detached rather than engaged. I get this floaty, almost numb feeling, or I feel very stiff and inhibited.
When I do feel engaged, it's because I get pictures in my head of other things, or recall song lines, or funny stories people have told me. So yeah, I guess I experience the moment by relating it to other things. It's not linear of course, things just pop up. As an intuitive, I'm not really concerned with where it comes from, because it just "feels" right.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Intuition intrigues me. Could someone give an example of how it works as a real-time process?

Here are two of my old posts about Ni.

Now one question for Ni users.

Is Ni in way preventing you form creating a clear personality traits and opinions?(at least from perspective of others)


It happened to me that someone said "that there are only 2 options" but when I take a look there are already couple more options, which then start to multiply and few seconds after the entire thing comes in contact with my scientific knowledge which is interested in cosmic scales when it comes to space and billions of years when it comes to time. (I am professionaly into geology and amateur when it comes to astronomy)

So the number of options goes of the scale and everything becomes so complex that it is impossible to verbalize it. But you can understand it without too much problem.
Because of that I must ignore the big picture and scientific knowledge if I want to make some decision about normal everyday things.

But because of this I am very reserved in life since I look at everything in way that is too complex and I have to ignore large parts of myself to be able to function in everyday tasks.


The thing is that I don't make difference between : economy, science, politics, health, my future job, philosophy and everyday activities.
For me all of this is one and there are no borders between them. (at least for me)

Because of this my line of thought is pretty much impossble to follow if I don't do something about it.
So when someone asks "What are your interests?" I am not sure what to say to them to tell them the real truth. That is why I said clear personality traits, since you can't verbalize your actual self. What means that it can be quire hard to show yourself as a person in mental sense.

It took 90 minutes to type this post, because I wanted to make sure that my words actually describe something.
But during that time I actually started to understand how problematic this actaully is.
I could say more but that would make entire thing much less understandable so I will stop here.

Question for people with strong Ni.

Did you ever come to realiztion that Ni is preventing you from forming a clear personaity?

Which is because you can see so many facts and outcomes at once that you can't treat things and events as something that is close to your heart.


For me it can happens that I function best if I have alone time between doing different things. Which is because when I am doing something my mind is litteraly fooded with data and it is set in a way that I will be able to process those things. But when I continue with something that is quite different I must transform the way how my entire mind functions. If we are talking about things that are quite simple and earthy then there is no problem but if only one activity is not I will do my job much better if I have time for transformation.


I don't know how many times it happened to me that people were sure that I like something but I didn't. I don't know what to say to them because back then I worked in a different mind set then now. One thing is lying but I actually trully think what I say and I stand behind it. But wait for sometime and I will not be exactly as I was.


To confuse people even more I am the one that is always pushing for more organization and logic. So this look like I am playing games with them.


The thing is that I am aways aware of very large amount of data when I do something and I have that much data for another activity. So it takes time to replace data that I needed with new data for new activity. And when I am am aware of specific data it defines my personality. So as I am changing the data I am aware in my mind I am also changing myself as a person.(to some degree)


Many times I see different outcomes and for each I have different logic which I will use if it happens that it comes to that scenario. Also I can claim that something is bad and then something happens and I change my entire logic/goal. But that means that the thing that was bad in now good. Which is something that most people have problem understanding.

So I can never say "This is me!" and be fully correct.


If someone thinks WTF after this post, they are free to say why they think that.

But this is not the entire thing.

 

[raz]

Few questions for S people.


How do you deal with idea that everything you see, hear, taste ............ is nothing more then a picture created by your brain?

Do you ever think about this?
Do you tend to ignore the idea, even if you accept it as the truth?
Does this concept scares you ?

I was actually just thinking about that in one of my classes 2 days ago. You don't know what's really happening in the outside world. For all you know, it could be something completely different than what you've "experienced." Everything you see is just an image created by your eyes. A smell is just a reaction to an external stimulus. The physical boundaries on your movement that "confirm" to you what you see could just be your mind placing fake sensations in your nerves to make you think something is in your way. Your thoughts in reaction to the physical boundaries could just be your mind placing boundaries on your thoughts.

I thought about similar things a lot when I was younger. When I was in elementary school, I scared myself often with what I thought about. I had this extreme consciousness of myself. I was in such control of my own mind and body that I could experience so much. Why was I in control of this body? Why this mind? Why not someone else? Do other people have as much control as I do? Should I trust those other people? I thought it was quite depressing when I realized I was only able to experience life with my own mind and body, and not through someone else's also. I just wanted confirmation that I wasn't being toyed with by like some higher being for having such extreme consciousness in this body. I wanted to know how it affected other people.

Are those normal thoughts for an S child or did it help a lot that I was introverted? lol

 

[Virtual ghost]

Question for S people.

Something happens and things go wrong and then a person who is N gives you a detailed explanation what happened. But for the most part that does not make sense or you can't relate that to what just happened.


What S people do/think in cases when this happens?