How to distinguish INTJ and INFJ

[iwakar]

Most INFJs tend to have boobs xD

Hah!

An an INTJ will show vulnerability

Voluntarily, sure. INFJs don't usually "voluntarily," but can do so involuntarily under the correct pair of scrutinous eyes.

INFJs have sad faces.

INTJs have stern faces.

+10 Truth

ok that was amazingly impressive. i might stalk you now.

Attitude towards people is a dead giveaway.

UGH. People.

This is indeed what makes an INFJ a peculiar type, the strangest of all no doubt....

By itself, one may argue that Fe does tend to equate success with popularity, however the way the Fe of the INFJ works is very heavily influenced by Introverted Intuition. Introverted Intuition tends to be chiefly concerned with conjuring novel ideas, especially in relation to its external environment. ... Hence, very often the INFJ manipulates the social conventions to the end of promoting their vision.

Hence, unlike an Fe dominant type, instead of behaving in accordance with the social conventions, the INFJ behaves in accordance to what he/she feels the social conventions should be like. It should be noted however that despite the fact that Introverted Intuition is superior to Extroverted Feeling in the psyche of the INFJ, Introverted Intuition by itself does not easily give one a clear perspective on life. That is the case because it merely leads to hunches and not coherent ideas. For this reason the INFJ reluctantly obeys social conventions as he or she cannot find a compelling reason to stand by their visions. In most cases however, the natural individualistic disposition of the INFJ prevails and he/she disregards the social convention in favor of following his or her vision. Because the INFJ sees no justifiable reason to behave in a way they did in that case, they experience inner conflict.

Ni is highly individualistic and idiosyncratic, Fe is conventional and collectivistic. Unless the INFJ has a highly cultivated Thinking faculty they cannot conclusively decide which way of behaving is appropriate. The one they have a hunch is appropriate (Ni way) or what they 'know' to be appropriate as a result of convention worshipping (Fe).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type most affected by inner turmoil.

The bolded part is VERY true and has caused some stubborn seemingly idiosyncratic behavior difficult for those around me to grasp. That's because if the "rules in place" do not suit me, I skirt them or adapt them to my own purposes, and if need be --I'll make my own damn rules. As for the underlined bolded part... I cannot begin to articulate the truth of that statement. Thank goodness for Ti. It usually finds a way to parse out a truce between Ni/Fe so I can avoid mental paralysis.

Thank you SolitaryWalker, I'm glad of your mind on this matter.

I read they're the type most likely to have an eating disorder. INTJs second. Not sure why.

Oh boy. Guilty as charged.

Q: How would an INxJ person look like?

See profile pic.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

As I said, the two types are quite similar. Both use Ni first and secondarilly use some form of Je.

Let me just say that both are prone to redifing things, or shifting perspectives and meaning, via searching out other possibilities for conceptual meaning with their Ni. This does not mean that they are flexible about their opnions, rather it is this source of the infamous stubbornness. INJs can always redefine a context to be something that would make them right. Both the main skill and horrible flaw of INJs is to attempt bending the subject to their own position rather than believing they should have to change for it.
Both use their Je typically as a support to the Ni, so they external rationale the use will generally be employed to demonstrate the ways that the current frame of meaning they are using could (or should) be right.

While that paints them as being rather solipsist, it is worth noting that their use of Je still does give them values grounded in reality. More "balanced" INJs can learn to concede their Ni to rationale. Obviously, whether or not Te or Fe is being used will determine what is worth conceding to for these types, as well as what is considered a good argument for validating their Ni visions and interpretations when they don't feel like conceding them. At this point, we come back to the same old dichotomy I've already gone over betwen INFJs and INTJs.

Figuring out the type then may just be a comparison of the traits I mentioned, and which are being exercised more. There's a problem with distinguishing middle ground types, in this case some sort of INJJ. No exact line is defined as to when someone uses enough Fe to be INFJ, or enough Te to be an INTJ. If someone seems to be using an equal amout of both, you might be best of just leaving it undefined as INxJ. I wouldn't assert that they are totally balanced, as it seems unlikely that someone wouldn't favor at least one a little bit over the other. It is simply to close to tell which is being favored.

---------------------------
EDIT: Oh, I have to mention something else. You can't tell if someone is INFJ or INTJ by looking at them. Types do not have physical appearances. No expression, posture, bone structure, etc can tell you what type someone is.

 

[Virtual ghost]

INFJs are less likely to do something what has been done in "They ate her with potatoes" thread.

 

[Shaula]

INFJs are less likely to do something what has been done in "They ate her with potatos" thread.

+1

 

[Qre:us]

^ MagicP,

But I want to make him fit nicely into a pretty box, so that when it is time to bury him, it's quite handy.

Actually, I also have settled on the INxJ, but, like you pointed out, I've often wondered if there is a slight preference for one over the other, as an instinctual reaction to situations? My bet is on F.

-military
-work- engineering, promoted to more 'desk job' - contingency planning - allocate how to spend millions for a particular proposed mission. Big picture - Te-Ni. Numbers, numbers, numbers. (aka, not a lot of social interaction, added to the conservative setting, and thus, not a lot of 'personal' pov to his work decisions)
- motto in life: win-win
- 100% follow-through on tasks
- P-U-N-C-T-U-A-L, to the point of counting seconds (so I made him wait hours, and told him to give me how late I was in seconds....him=not amused)
- highly ambitious - pretty young for his rank
- misanthropic to the MAX. He has a '5 things that I hate about humans' list
- hates the idea of being 'social'
- has a hard time grasping the concept of "10 ways to say one thing". Always says, 'Do you want truth or nice?' (thinks, by default, it's a dichotomy)
- Cannot stand unmotivated people, lazy people, people who cry 'victim'
- on the outside, is WAYYYYYYY too much of a nice guy, and gets conned by his superiors to take on jobs, one after another, as he won't say 'no', if he doesn't have anything else to do (regardless of how overworked he is, if he is free, he will take it)
- secretly loves romantic comedies (he gets offended when I fall asleep half way through )
- hates watching gory films where animals and children (not adult humans) gets mutilated; fast-forward time! (yes, he's a soldier who has gone to wars)
- his word is his honour. Best way to get him to do something, make him promise it...even if he hates it, he *will* do it.
- Chess-masta, Jeopardy-masta, Poker-masta
- likes to window shop in Home reno/house & home stores (I dunno what category things like Bombay & Co. is), as I only go along with promise of food after
- is a vegetarian
- will NEVER intentionally kill an animal, to the point of taking a garbage bag, and running around his just-sold house, which accidently got its front door left open, to capture (and set free outside) all the flies, before the house got sprayed. It took him 5 hours. He got all the flies.
- thus, abhors leather
- first thing to do in the morning, meditate
- very regimental about his physical activity (works out, min. 2 times a day)
- loves 'fixing' stuff, taking on house projects, tearing up and installing floorboards, circuit the air vents in the house, it never ends (always NEEDS to be doing *something* productive)
- gives the best advice/perspective for interpersonal conflicts (very rational and cool)
- rented his bsmt to a middle-aged lady rather than a super-hawt young chick, cuz the old lady had stable income, and less likely to appeal to him, in case of back rent.
- likes to talk abstract, only if you present it in a systematic A-B-C way, not about flowery/poetry wordage/usage. Say it cleanly, crisply.
- dabbles in painting randomly
- loves debating, and sarcasm
- in certain situations, he has refused to meet certain of my friends, cuz he doesn't like them/approve of them, so he rather be, ignorant in his bliss, or, as he puts in, NOT be able to have a perspective on the person directly, thus, decreasing his ability to comment on them (and me) in future situations...which, gives his mind peace (less drama).
- subtlety in romance...tying back to the romantic comedy fetish, he has ways to make a romantic statement that is *just* right for the person on hand, only *they* will get it, and quite creative too
- thinks pre-nup agreement is in poor taste, and believes that the couple should be able to look into each other's eyes, and verbally promise not to screw the other over (*snort*)
- yet, somehow, still very very logical (seriously!) in most situations


INTJ? INFJ? INxJ? (no, not gay, I can attest )

(although, this is just my description of him, and there may be bias to it, as it's through *my* eyes)

 

[iwakar]

Types do not have physical appearances. No expression, posture, bone structure, etc can tell you what type someone is.

I seriously disagree. Facial expressions are external indicators for what is (or isn't) going on inside of a person. I doubt you could definitively get a 4 letter MBTI reading on visuals alone, but seriously --there's no determining I/E and T/F through visual observation? Doubtful.

If someone stuck an ExFx and IxTx in a room and we were separated by soundproof glass, I'm pretty damn sure I could figure out who was who. I'm pretty sure most others could, too.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I seriously disagree. Facial expressions are external indicators for what is (or isn't) going on inside of a person. I doubt you could definitively get a 4 letter MBTI reading on visuals alone, but seriously --there's no determining I/E and T/F through visual observation? Doubtful.

If someone stuck an ExFx and IxTx in a room and we were separated by soundproof glass, I'm pretty damn sure I could figure out who was who. I'm pretty sure most others could, too.

Expressions, mannerisms, ticks, I do not see these as relevant to ones cognitive processes. If anything is detectable, you are right in it being E vs I, since it does have so much to do with reaction to what's outside. What's interesting though is that I would put T and F last in line for visual identifiability. It is often very difficult to tell what rationale someone is using. Hard to tell than where they are directing their focus, or what kind of cues they are paying attention to.

This reminds of a previous debate had on whether emotionality was an indication of Feeling. I was one of the people that said it was not to any reliable degree. I had observed that many people clearly relying on Thinking were quite emotive, while others who used F based rational were very monotonously composed. This shouldn't be surprising, because no aspect of the cognitive processes really indicates that Fs would be more emotive than Ts. It's not in the definition.

So, in short, I'd say you wouldn't determine the types of those people you are hypothetically observing as often as you think. I will say that if you did, it would still probably be based more on their personal conduct than on things like facial expressions.

 

[01011010]

Interesting! That's one problem with basing your observations on the few specimens of a type you happen to know. I can definitely see that, though.

Not really. Dominant Te users are very much about efficiency. See: INTJ Forum

 

[redacted]

INTJ? INFJ? INxJ? (no, not gay, I can attest )

(although, this is just my description of him, and there may be bias to it, as it's through *my* eyes)

INFJ

 

[cascadeco]

INFJs seem to be much more attuned to how they're being perceived by others and will act accordingly, which sometimes means not expressing our thoughts. I think that's the reason there's a general perception that INFJs are so secretive. It's not always that I don't want to share (okay, sometimes it is), but often I won't if I don't get the sense that the other person is truly interested. In some sense, INTJs can sometimes be too uninhibited while INFJs are too inhibited. That's something, I guess?

Totally.

 

[Lotr246]

An INFJ will feel bad after manipulating people.

 

[Thursday]

An INFJ will feel bad after manipulating people.

wrong

 

[527468]

Both tend to have strong Fi, which I find quite confusing.

 

[the state i am in]

Yes, but the motivations might be different.

INTJs are typical compartmentalizing personalities. Everything has it's own box. Product of excessive Te. They also want to maintain a sense of their own identity and be autonomous as well. They're so into themselves, it doesn't dawn on them to share.

INFJs on the other hand, are aware of other people. They seem like they genuinely just don't want to divulge their inner world. Whereas INTJs, never even think to, unless prompted.

i agree with your intj analysis, but the infj analysis is totally wrong. we do not and cannot compartmentalize anything, which is what makes it so fucking difficult to communicate our inner world, which is what we want to do MOST OF ALL.

altho this may have to do, also, with me being an enneagram 5w4 wing with an sx preference. revealing my inner world is what i feel compelled to do in life more than anything else, it is what i identify myself with, who i am, what i can do, how i can be seen, etc. vision is of such paramount importance, it is just never done, finished, completed. its articulation eludes me at all steps along the way. the desire to invent a new way of speaking.

we have spent so much time being disappointed that we could not communicate our holographs and technicolor images. we may, as a result, look especially recalcitrant and seriously walled off on the outside.

 

[entropie]

INFJ tend to be whacko, INTJ dont talk to me

 

[matmos]

...INTJ dont talk to me

Sie mein Bier tranken.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

one thinks he knows everything, the other really does know everything.

 

[matmos]

one thinks he knows everything, the other really does know everything.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

This is indeed what makes an INFJ a peculiar type, the strangest of all no doubt.

It should be noted however that Introverted Intuition precedes Extroverted Feeling in the psyche of the INFJ. The two functions have a master-slave relationship, as this is the relationship all dominant functions have with regard to the lower faculties.

By itself, one may argue that Fe does tend to equate success with popularity, however the way the Fe of the INFJ works is very heavily influenced by Introverted Intuition. Introverted Intuition tends to be chiefly concerned with conjuring novel ideas, especially in relation to its external environment. (The external environment is relevant because Ni is a perceiving function and all perceiving functions tend to be concerned with their environment, as the environment is what is perceived. For this reason INJs are renowned as social critics and champions of moral or political views. Nietzsche, Sartre, Simon de Beauvoir and Ayn Rand are cases in point.) Extroverted Feeling, as aforementioned, is subordinated to Introverted Intuition. Hence, very often the INFJ manipulates the social conventions to the end of promoting their vision.

Hence, unlike an Fe dominant type, instead of behaving in accordance with the social conventions, the INFJ behaves in accordance to what he/she feels the social conventions should be like. It should be noted however that despite the fact that Introverted Intuition is superior to Extroverted Feeling in the psyche of the INFJ, Introverted Intuition by itself does not easily give one a clear perspective on life. That is the case because it merely leads to hunches and not coherent ideas. For this reason the INFJ reluctantly obeys social conventions as he or she cannot find a compelling reason to stand by their visions. In most cases however, the natural individualistic disposition of the INFJ prevails and he/she disregards the social convention in favor of following his or her vision. Because the INFJ sees no justifiable reason to behave in a way they did in that case, they experience inner conflict.

Ni is highly individualistic and idiosyncratic, Fe is conventional and collectivistic. Unless the INFJ has a highly cultivated Thinking faculty they cannot conclusively decide which way of behaving is appropriate. The one they have a hunch is appropriate (Ni way) or what they 'know' to be appropriate as a result of convention worshipping (Fe).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type most affected by inner turmoil.

omg! you totally described my life with my intj husband. i am sooo weird, yet wonderful in my own way, but my individualistic ideals seem to always (in life) fall on deaf ears and nobody ever seems to understand, or want to understand me; or if they do, it is fleeting and they become worn out by me.

i believe "social conventions," as you mentioned suck in the relationship model realm, but to live a polyamorous lifestyle in my neck of the woods, and with my intj husband, is virtually impossible, so i end up flip-flopping around all the time. i feel my utopia resides in poly, but then my thinking husband (i don't think i'm strong in the thinking function, i'm not sure) argues admirably that monogamy is best, so i end up caught in the middle somewhere all the time and life is becoming more and more difficult accordingly.

i wonder about infjs tending to be more likely to have polyamorous ideals, because we can see a myriad of possibities in human relating (my infj male friend is poly too).......i know simone de beauvior and sartre had an open relationship, as do many artists (who tend to be infjs, no?)........

it is nice to be validated in having inner turmoil....cuz that is exactly how i feel much of the time, unlike my intj husband who can make a decision and be at peace about it and never look back. but i know a lot of infps who also seem to struggle (maybe even more so due to their p?) with turmoil and discontent.

what is your profession? do you charge by the hour? hahaha.

 

[nanook]

one thinks he knows everything, the other really does know everything.

i sort of like this, especially if you look at how NiFe and NiTe have a different idea about what "things" are. (things that ought to be know)

compare with:

INFJs may like science but may stick to the big-picture level of theories and ideas, [...] rather than get into the nitty gritty.

it's not just about what things are, since things are related to how we come to the conclusion, that our view is backed up by proof reality and that therefore we know "enough" in the matter.