How to distinguish ISFJ and INFJ?

[lorkan]

I don't see this behavior from Kai at all. Just paisley1.

Projection?

I can see where the behaviour is leading.

And yes, I project paisley atm. He expresses frustration with an undertone of aggression wich is being met, from Kai, with insecurity and suspiciousness of his motives rather then firmness and security. I have problem with dealing with this to and therefor can understand where paisley is coming from.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Personal attack comes from how I delivered my message. Usually I won't be so direct, blunt or obvious when commenting on others, even if it might be objectively true. Sugar coating~ if you will.

As much as I hate this arguement that I'm constantly hearing from my father. His idea being that to apologise/understand something means attempting to change a particular behaviour, words followed by actions. Considering that I was rubbed in the wrong way at the beginning and the fact that I come from the UK where Irony, sarcasm and general dry humour is constantly used. I'm more likely to interpret things as so and react accordingly.

You picked up on my smugness hey. Again, a conversation with an ISFJ starts, builds, and ends with "Sorry", like we're dancing and I can't seem to stop myself from stepping on your toes, even if I created the damn dance.

Sorry Kai, Sorry Hmm, will you guys forgive me for being an ass?

".....Cause I'm all alone
theres no one here beside me
my problems have all gone
theres no one here to reside me
But you gotta have friends....."

(The ass from Shrek is the joke I'm going for here)

I'll be an ass again, we naturally sit on a higher cognitive playing field, describing the injustice the ISFJ doesn't so clearly and readily see.

And other posts earlier on while interacting with Hmm. (Apologies for dragging up everything). I suppose one major problem is this: The idea that it's not possible to control the behaviour.

Like I said, I have to learn to be patient with ISFJ's, hahahahaha, as with old people...........I can't help it, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist describing ISFJ's as old people.....it's just sitting right there in front of me.......

Since I'm viewing his actions as not being aligned to his words, I'm going to think the apology is sarcastic. (Trying not to take comments at face value). All I can say it's true that I might be treating apologies as something that should be serious/kind in nature, rather than laced with humour.

Fair enough if Paisley is venting frustrations, but that doesn't excuse some of the unpleasent comments that have been made on ISFJs. Once again perhaps I'm being too serious about this thread.

Just explaining my self. S'good now.

 

[violaine]

Well, how could one distinguish ISFJ and INFJ?

Tell me concrete examples in particular.

From an INFJ POV. I have an ISFJ friend. Concrete example: We were watching TV together last night. It was a renovation show wherein aid is rendered to a family with a hard luck story. Difference no. 1 - I wouldn't ever be watching a show like that ordinarily (her house, her choice). Difference no. 2 - She cried the entire way through the show while I felt weirded out that it was slapped with sponsorships and music to tug at the heart strings and so it left me cold. (Also, watching it felt like my fingernails were being pulled out, lol, but I figured it was like bonding time for us.)

She adheres to social niceties and enjoys them. I am mindful, but I will not do things just because I am supposed to. I do not enjoy them. She enjoys things like baby showers and kitchen teas, about the only social rituals of interest to me are Japanese tea ceremonies and the like, lol.

She is often highly insulted if people don't follow social rules. I could not care less. A large way that she shows she cares is by being very attentive to someone's physical needs and the rules of 'polite' society. e.g. if guests are staying she will kill herself looking after them. She is extremely hospitable. I am attentive, but after a few days I'm like 'hmm, ok, you're not a baby bird, I think you can look after yourself'.

I feel like I look through to the heart of things, the exterior doesn't matter a whole lot to me. How things appear and how she appears is everything to her. She is the soul of kindness but she always has to be seen to be doing right by others or the kind deed is invalidated. She is very houseproud... it's a huge thing in her life. I enjoy design and decorating to my heart's content, it's just for me, not for everyone that visits my home as it is with her. She fusses far more than I ever would. Her home is definitely her security.

The way that we are similar is that we are both very sympathetic though often touched by different things. She would prob think I am colder than her because she is a bleeding heart (and it shows) for things that do not touch me at all. I have more empathy for the off-beat or the underdog who might be a little hard to feel for. But I won't necessarily talk about it. She expresses her sympathies and sadnesses unbidden. We are both very good at divining people's motives. When we are talking something like that over, we are like a pair of bloodhounds.

Her feelings are really at the forefront of everything. I don't show my deeper feelings unless you are somewhat close to me. Everyone else gets a polite, helpful, good natured reserve. She is much more easily hurt than I am. She doesn't ever do banter but instead will giggle wide eyed and declare the other person a 'meanie' if ever on the receiving end of a joke. If they keep on at her she will most likely get very hurt and sometimes cry. Very sensitive. Whereas I am a little harder to hurt, I enjoy banter and will joust back.

I don't know how global these differences are between ISFJ and INFJ. I am more off-beat and whimsical than her by far in every way. She is much more feet-on-the-ground, dutiful and dependable than me. (She is a very beautiful person). Interestingly though, how each of us are is what we each value - I value whimsy, she values dependability.

 

[Paisley]

Going with the Shrek theme, "It's touchin', just touchin'! (as donkey dries a tear)"

Whimsy and me are synonymous, one place I am not at the margin. Wholeheartedly agree with this sanveane, and sarcastic humor aside, it is a thorough and enjoyable post. My ideals and value system are my security, not my home, unless of course you equate the two. That's something I found in there that rung true for me as a plausible difference, ie, where we place our security.

With that last quote Kai, I was serious about my need for forgiveness, I did not intend to piss you off, but I just said it sarcastically so this thread doesn't become funereal. Come on, I'm far from being disingenuous, too frank maybe, my posts speak volumes to this.

With donkey singing that song, Shrek then replies, "Shut up donkey!" It was my attempt at sarcasm combined with self-depricating humor. I am the donkey, if you knew the next part of the quote, you'd be thinking or saying to yourself "Shut up Donkey!", meaning me! Funny.....haha.....no??? Like I need to watch what I say......*laughter*....ha..ish...

(Crickets)

Ok I'll stick with Bill Bailey jokes, three blind mice walk into a bar, ouch! How dare you, picking on mice like that, they're blind, they can't see where they're going. Knock it off. To derive humor is exploitative.

 

[Giggly]

INFJ-ISFJ group hug?

 

[violaine]

^*hugs!* *hugs!*

 

[Paisley]

awww, we're buddies! Yeah!

 

[Athenian200]

Look at the type on their profile, silly. INFJ has an N, ISFJ has an S. That seems pretty concrete.

If they don't have it on their profile, look at their functions. See if they use Ni or Si more. If they tend to deal with differing perspectives and define things in terms of the future, they're probably INFJ. If they're usually pushing to maintain tradition and define things in terms of the past, they're probably ISFJ.

 

[wildcat]

Well, how could one distinguish ISFJ and INFJ?

Tell me concrete examples in particular.

Leave out the F.
The dichotomy is between the ISJ and the INJ.
The odd number represents only the odd party.
One dichotomy does not include another.

A fourhand is not a dichotomy.
Why?
Mendel has got the answer.

 

[tibby]

From an INFJ POV. I have an ISFJ friend. Concrete example: We were watching TV together last night. It was a renovation show wherein aid is rendered to a family with a hard luck story. Difference no. 1 - I wouldn't ever be watching a show like that ordinarily (her house, her choice). Difference no. 2 - She cried the entire way through the show while I felt weirded out that it was slapped with sponsorships and music to tug at the heart strings and so it left me cold. (Also, watching it felt like my fingernails were being pulled out, lol, but I figured it was like bonding time for us.)

ISFJ I know loves the show. Actually all kinds of shows like that. And always gets very emotional.

And all in all, your post sounds very familiar Sanveane.

 

[INTJMom]

I hadn't heard of this before either. I'm not INFJ, but this sounds JUST like me. I find it easier to shut someone out of my life completely than to hold on to the past because it helps me to move on. This is a characteristic that has been the topic of many discussions with my hubby (the former INFP).

Yeah. I had an ISFJ in my life, and she couldn't find a way to deal,
so she had to slam the door on our friendship.
It was all or nothing.

 

[Giggly]

^*hugs!* *hugs!*

awww, we're buddies! Yeah!

Yay! I'm in an INFJ hug sandwich! *hugs*

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Hahaha, us INFJ's already see the picture in our minds, therefore no recreation is necessary. We often have YOUR picture in our minds long before you've finished describing it, that's why we'd rather you preface your sentence with, the point of what I'm about to tell you is _________, and then explain the details. We'll meet you halfway through the recreation. We'd like to avoid a lot of unnecessary verbosity because of our well developed intuitive abstact cognition. It's a weakness INFJ's have with you, because we can become very smug and condescending and finish your points before you. Like I said, I have to learn to be patient with ISFJ's, hahahahaha, as with old people...........I can't help it, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist describing ISFJ's as old people.....it's just sitting right there in front of me.......

This set of assumptions can easily lead to conclusions based on self projection and imagination. A danger in considering oneself "intuitive" is to jump to conclusions, and then set up situations to become self fulfilling prophecies regardless of the reality of the situation.

Approaching social situations with a declaration of having a great deal of insight over what others are thinking suggests a fear or deeper sense of being lost in relation to others. Telling someone you can easily be inside their head makes them feel a sense of intrusion and loss of control over their personal boundaries. There can be a variety of motivations for someone to try to make other people feel this way. Some are obvious, others less so.

 

[Paisley]

Telling someone you can easily be inside their head makes them feel a sense of intrusion and loss of control over their personal boundaries. There can be a variety of motivations for someone to try to make other people feel this way. Some are obvious, others less so.

True, or we actually CAN see within them, and the person is intrigued, speculative, and interested!

Always a matter of approachability, and most INFJ's have that in spades! I'd suggest as a whole INFJ's are disarming, not intrusive in their manner of approach in such a situation. Lean more towards building people up than tearing them down. Disarming is a good word for it, because we'll intrude your headspace and you'll think it was your idea.:hi:

 

[Kyrielle]

True, or we actually CAN see within them, and the person is intrigued, speculative, and interested!

Always a matter of approachability, and most INFJ's have that in spades! I'd suggest as a whole INFJ's are disarming, not intrusive in their manner of approach in such a situation. Lean more towards building people up than tearing them down. Disarming is a good word for it, because we'll intrude your headspace and you'll think it was your idea.:hi:

Hmm. No.

Most of the time, I'm quite wrong in my assumptions as to what someone else is thinking. There are very few people in which they say to me, "Get out of my head!" and that's usually only because we both happened to be coming to similar conclusions because we were both on the same wavelength with an issue. I am not in their head, not at all, I am, instead, thinking the same thing they are because they must have the same mental tendencies as I do for that one topic. It is just a matter of one of us saying it first and saying it the clearest.

 

[Paisley]

You misinterpret CAN for ALWAYS. If the INFJ is just plain stupid than they aren't going to make intuitive claims about what the ISFJ is droning on about, and will have to listen closely to understand what's being said. What you're talking about is every INFJ knows the headspace of every other type, all the time, which is not what I've suggested at all. All I'm suggesting is that INFJ's have a weakness with the ISFJ because we naturally make rational mental leaps in our minds that ISFJ's don't necessarily make so quickly about what someone is saying. The mental leap is usually internal, thought out, and confirmed or denied well into the ISFJ's talk. If the INFJ is smart and listening, and knows where this ISFJ talk is going and they are bored, they will interject and start finishing thoughts, which like I said, can lead an ISFJ to become surprised by the mental leap saying "how did you know what I was thinking?" or like you guys keep saying lead the ISFJ to say "Stop interrupting me, that's not what I mean" If the INFJ is really interested, they will hear the ISFJ out and listen to confirm or deny what they're already thinking. It's a matter of, is it worth it, to listen to what I already know and have already figured out in my head? The weakness is a feeling of boredom almost on the INFJ's part, and it's specific to the ISFJ. Again, it's a matter of personality and mood between the two during the conversation as well, what headspace everyone is in.

Your experience is totally different from mine in how you read people. Generally after a few brief moments with someone I know which way the wind is blowing, and have a general sense of what the other person is all about. I don't know what people are like before they start talking, but after a short while with them I've made several rationally intuitive claims about them, that are more true in the end, than when I first met them. As well, other sides are revealed.

I have this ENTP Type A girl in my life and she's totally "bull by the horns", leader, go go go go go, all the time, and I enjoy talking with her, but I wouldn't want to date her. Her idea of having fun on a regular basis is a full schedule from the moment she wakes up until the moment she falls asleep, with marathons in between. Done as though it's all like having a cup of coffee. Bizarre to me. I like asking her things she doesn't like to hear, just to see how the conversation will go. Things like taking time to relax and meditate and making time for repose to gather your thoughts. How people are not all the same and people are different and are in perfect liberty to choose what it is that they deem relaxing and enjoyable, and that they don't need to be the same as you, to be doing the right things in life. It seems funny putting that down in writing, but it's nonetheless true, lol. All people should want that, is the message she puts out, and I'm always playing devils advocate, describing how that doesn't lead to the maximum benefit for everyone. She has confessed that she needs to work on that, and does recognize that it's not right to implant her own way to live on everyone, although, I find it funny how strongly she feels about it really being so in life. Any thoughts?

 

[Kyrielle]

You misinterpret CAN for ALWAYS. I did not interpret can for always. I interpreted can to mean "has the ability to", which I do not believe is the case. If the INFJ is just plain stupid than they aren't going to make intuitive claims about what the ISFJ is droning on about, and will have to listen closely to understand what's being said. First, an INFJ is not stupid if they do not choose to "make claims" that they have some mental insight and think they know the ISFJ in and out. Second, you are being condescending to ISFJs in general by assuming what they have to say is "droning" which implies what they are saying is very boring. Third, why is listening carefully frowned upon by you? You make it sound like listening carefully and wanting to understand someone is so last year because making intuitive assumptions that are probably WRONG is "just plain stupid". What you're talking about is every INFJ knows the headspace of every other type, all the time, which is not what I've suggested at all. No. What I am talking about are instances where I happen to come to the same conclusion as someone else. I never said I was suddenly in the headspace of every other type. Just suddenly on the same wavelength of the conversation of one other person, in a particular instance. All I'm suggesting is that INFJ's have a weakness with the ISFJ because we naturally make rational mental leaps in our minds that ISFJ's don't necessarily make so quickly about what someone is saying. The mental leap is usually internal, thought out, and confirmed or denied well into the ISFJ's talk. If the INFJ is smart and listening, and knows where this ISFJ talk is going and they are bored, they will interject and start finishing thoughts, which like I said, can lead an ISFJ to become surprised by the mental leap saying "how did you know what I was thinking?" or like you guys keep saying lead the ISFJ to say "Stop interrupting me, that's not what I mean" If the INFJ is really interested, they will hear the ISFJ out and listen to confirm or deny what they're already thinking. Or maybe the INFJ needs to shut their trap and stop being so rude. Why do you keep insinuating that: 1) ISFJs cannot make mental leaps and 2) INFJs assume all ISFJs are boring. And since when does "smart" mean that you get to interrupt someone because you think you know all the answers. Sounds pretty arrogant to me. It's a matter of, is it worth it, to listen to what I already know and have already figured out in my head? If you want to be rude, sure it is. Or you could be patient and wait for them to take you by surprise.The weakness is a feeling of boredom almost on the INFJ's part, and it's specific to the ISFJ. Or it is just specific to you. Not all INFJs. Again, it's a matter of personality and mood between the two during the conversation as well, what headspace everyone is in.

Your experience is totally different from mine in how you read people. Generally after a few brief moments with someone I know which way the wind is blowing, and have a general sense of what the other person is all about. I don't know what people are like before they start talking, but after a short while with them I've made several rationally intuitive claims about them, that are more true in the end, than when I first met them. As well, other sides are revealed. I wasn't necessarily describing how I read people. I was describing instances that I felt contradicted what you were saying in that they were coincidences and not instances of actively trying to be inside someone's head.

My thoughts. Enjoy.

 

[Paisley]

My thoughts. Enjoy.

Sure. You've just elaborated on the point I already made, about the INFJ being bored.

 

[Giggly]

IS SOMEBODY SEEING INSIDE MY HEAD RIGHT NOW?

 

[Paisley]

lol