What non NJs think about Ni?

[Lotr246]

Here's an analogy that occurred to me:

The inner world of the mind can be seen as similar to the internet, in that data is organised in "webpages" which can be linked in many different ways, or cross-referenced via "weblinks". In this analogy, Ni works in a similar manner to a web browser (such as Internet Explorer).

To put it another way, one of Ni's functions is to navigate through inner space. In this role it has no specific agenda of its own and remains somewhat detached from the information it unearths. However, its power is awesome! By clicking the mental mouse we can shift our frame of reference entirely, follow a data stream wherever it may lead us, zoom in to examine something in more and more detail, or zoom out to get a bigger and bigger picture.

There are also drawbacks: for example, just like the Internet, this ability is so entrancing that it is possible to whitter away hours chasing after elusive information or living entirely in an inner fantasy world. (As a dom Ni-type, I plead guilty to both of the above!).

Taking this analogy one step further, I would postulate that Si also deals primarily with this inner Internet, but in a different role - possibly a sort of curator who manages the data flow, enforces rules and procedures, assigns categories to new information and archives, catalogues and retrieves data. The "search" function may be an example of Si in action.

Now, I'm not an IT expert, so my analogy could be inaccurate, but it does feel like a good description of the way my own Ni operates. I'd appreciate feedback on this idea (ooer, that's putting my neck on the proverbial chopping block!)

Interesting that you see it this way too. I was just thinking about this today and it occurred to me that this is a good representation of it. The way you describe it seems almost exact:
YouTube - FX from MP

 

[Jack Flak]

I think Ni is a pretty cool guy. eh apprehends the images which arise from the a priori and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Apollanaut]

I think Ni is a pretty cool guy. eh apprehends the images which arise from the a priori and doesn't afraid of anything.

Fear is for the weak. Or for the scared.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So basicly it all comes down to that no one knows what it is and how to imagine it?


Now one question For Ni users.

Is Ni in way preventing you form creating a clear personality traits and opinions?
(at least from perspective of others)


It happened to me that someone said "that there are only 2 options" but when I take a look there are already couple more options, which then start to multiply and few seconds after the entire thing comes in contact with my scientific knowledge which is interested in cosmic scales when it comes to space and billions of years when it comes to time. (I am professionaly into geology and amateur when it comes to astronomy)

So the number of options goes of the scale and everything becomes so complex that it is impossible to verbalize it. But you can understand it without too much problem.
Because of that I must ignore the big picture and scientific knowledge if I want to make some decision about normal everyday things.

But because of this I am very reserved in life since I look at everything in way that is too complex and I have to ignore large parts of myself to be able to function in everyday tasks.


The thing is that I don't make difference between : economy, science, politics, health, my future job, philosophy and everyday activities.
For me all of this is one and there are no borders between them. (at least for me)

Because of this my line of thought is pretty much impossble to follow if I don't do something about it.
So when someone asks "What are your interests?" I am not sure what to say to them to tell them the real truth. That is why I said clear personality traits, since you can't verbalize your actual self. What means that it can be quire hard to show yourself as a person in mental sense.

It took 90 minutes to type this post, because I wanted to make sure that my words actually describe something.
But during that time I actually started to understand how problematic this actaully is.
I could say more but that would make entire thing much less understandable so I will stop here.


I am sorry if this doesn't make much sense to some people.

 

[cascadeco]

I think I know what you're saying, and I've written on here before that on 'big' topics, it would take pages and pages to link together all the reasons I have for believing something, and take out any one of those pages, and you're missing an integral link. Like, religion? Forget about it. Not even going to go there (I've gone there, on my own, and I ended up with 80+ pages, and probably could have kept going....). I'd end up writing a novel, pulling in history, science, psychology, sociology, biology, philosophy, blah blah....and I'd pull in all sorts of other subjects because all of those other subjects, and my knowledge/thoughts on those other subjects, impact my ultimate conclusions when it comes to religion. Etc.

Multiple options/viewpoints. Yes, I have that problem. If not careful, can easily become immobilized because I'm overwhelmed by too much data/too many possibilities.

 

[nozflubber]

As a non-nj, I completely disregard the scientific and practical relevancy of Ni, and ever other so-called "sub-function". I think the descriptive and scientific validity of MBTI will only be shown to be true for the ENTIRE, cohesive 4 letter type. Ti Te Ne Ni Si Se Fi Fe all have zero capability of truly explaining human behavior and only exist in the beholder's eye.

"Oh, I dropped that cookie on the floor, my Si Sux0rz!"

"Damn I can't crack that psyche of the guy at the bar, I wish my Ni was stronger"

etc, ad nausium

I could go on and give a big lecture about how the whole is not equal to the summation of separate parts (or in the case of MBTI, the analysis of type XXXX is not equal to the summation of the subfunctions), but I don't feel like it.....

OMG that must be my Ti not having sufficient reason to perform said behavior!!!!1.....

Actually, wait, no.... it's because I'm a fuckin' lazy INTP

 

[garbage]

As a non-nj, I completely disregard the scientific and practical relevancy of Ni, and ever other so-called "sub-function". I think the descriptive and scientific validity of MBTI will only be shown to be true for the ENTIRE, cohesive 4 letter type. Ti Te Ne Ni Si Se Fi Fe all have zero capability of truly explaining human behavior and only exist in the beholder's eye.

I must preface everything by stating that I believe MBTI and Jungian cognitive function theory is only a model. But I love talking about models

But you can look at the difference between the functions' interactions and deduce something about the nature of the individual functions. That's a common exercise in the concept of experimental design, anyway--inferring things about variables in an experiment when you don't have access to them independently.

I think looking at the individual functions can be practical because, theoretically.. for example, Ni is one way to describe the similarity between ENFJ (FeNi) and ENTJ (TeNi).

Since the functions aren't working independently in our own cognition, it often makes the concepts behind them hard to describe.. but the interactions themselves are pretty easy. I'd say that ENFJ is easier to describe and digest than Ni is, for example.

But their inherently fuzzy nature is why we try to solidify concepts like "shadow types" and fail miserably.

 

[nozflubber]

Yeah agreed..... but the "shadow types" is just another reason why I dismiss the subfunctions. It seems silly that you'd have some sort of "dormant" subfunctions that exist in the EXACT same order, except with the I/E inverted....

It's too convenient. Nothing in nature is that neat. Ordered, Yes, but not neat.

 

[garbage]

Yeah agreed..... but the "shadow types" is just another reason why I dismiss the subfunctions. It seems silly that you'd have some sort of "dormant" subfunctions that exist in the EXACT same order, except with the I/E inverted....

That and the fact that every extension of the model has a different ordering for the functions for each type. The only thing they agree on is the fact that one function (either the primary or secondary) must be perceiving and the other judging, and one introverted and one extraverted.

I can see the first two functions' combination conceptually and practically--and those functions together do define one's type--but I can't readily see how the rest of them play out as any of the models say they should.

Looking at some of the type descriptions, Socionics' ordering makes the most sense, though.

It's too convenient. Nothing in nature is that neat. Ordered, Yes, but not neat.

As someone who works with models for a living, I agree. Some parts of certain models are useful and valid, and others aren't. Some try to explain way, way too much and so aren't seen as valid overall. It's usually the details, such as shadow functions, that are the least accurate.

 

[booyalab]

I think the ultimate Ni band is VNV Nation. Depending on your mindset and the song, they can be deeply epic or deeply cheesy. Ni=epic/cheesy

[YOUTUBE=oUJ6UMhMguY]VNV Nation- Airships[/YOUTUBE]

 

[anii]

I respect it, and I give my SO plenty of time to engage in it.

 

[Venom]

in the simplest terms:

Ni is supercomputing. its Meta Analysis of all the Se you've taken in to feed the Ni... the computer then spews out its conclusions without any detailed 'work' to prove that the meta analysis has been accurate

 

[TaylorS]

So basicly it all comes down to that no one knows what it is and how to imagine it?


Now one question For Ni users.

Is Ni in way preventing you form creating a clear personality traits and opinions?
(at least from perspective of others)


It happened to me that someone said "that there are only 2 options" but when I take a look there are already couple more options, which then start to multiply and few seconds after the entire thing comes in contact with my scientific knowledge which is interested in cosmic scales when it comes to space and billions of years when it comes to time. (I am professionaly into geology and amateur when it comes to astronomy)

So the number of options goes of the scale and everything becomes so complex that it is impossible to verbalize it. But you can understand it without too much problem.
Because of that I must ignore the big picture and scientific knowledge if I want to make some decision about normal everyday things.

But because of this I am very reserved in life since I look at everything in way that is too complex and I have to ignore large parts of myself to be able to function in everyday tasks.


The thing is that I don't make difference between : economy, science, politics, health, my future job, philosophy and everyday activities.
For me all of this is one and there are no borders between them. (at least for me)

Because of this my line of thought is pretty much impossble to follow if I don't do something about it.
So when someone asks "What are your interests?" I am not sure what to say to them to tell them the real truth. That is why I said clear personality traits, since you can't verbalize your actual self. What means that it can be quire hard to show yourself as a person in mental sense.

It took 90 minutes to type this post, because I wanted to make sure that my words actually describe something.
But during that time I actually started to understand how problematic this actaully is.
I could say more but that would make entire thing much less understandable so I will stop here.


I am sorry if this doesn't make much sense to some people.

OMG, this whole post describes myself perfectly!

 

[01011010]

I kind of think that's how most Ni types behave. Nearly psychic sage one moment, then half-witted twit the next.

 

[entropie]

no real world than your own real world

I think, to give the exact opposite, my basic fear is to loose my mind. Which would start when I end to get checked through others on my thoughts on a regular basis. Of course this can drive you mad anyways in the end, because everyone tells you otherwise.

The thing is, I think if nobody would get a N-based joke I just made, I would think that I am insane.

Therefore my conclusion: I have no idea what Ni is

 

[NewEra]

My Ni is not good at all. Therefore I respect people with good Ni.

 

[Cimarron]

Because of that I must ignore the big picture and scientific knowledge if I want to make some decision about normal everyday things.

But because of this I am very reserved in life since I look at everything in way that is too complex and I have to ignore large parts of myself to be able to function in everyday tasks.

Do you think a big factor leading to this was your upbringing (childhood, social environment, etc.), acting along with Ni tendencies? I think they could both be significant factors, though you may have meant that and just not wasted time on the obvious. It seems normal that we must technically shrink or limit the big picture temporarily to deal with everyday problems and events.

 

[htb]

Ne is about possibility. Picture a tree.

Ni is about certitude. Picture a pyramid.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I am sure that there has been similar threads, but I am starting this one once again.

In short.

What do you think about Ni and how do imagine it?

I imagine it as guiding force or gut feeling. Like your doing something and just know that it's the right cource of action. An INTJ would use Te to backup that gut feeling with "logic". Your Ni says, this is the right direction, or this should work. Te connects the dots in the physical world.

 

[MrME]

I misread the title of the post before I wrote all this, (I missed the "non" part), and I'd hate to delete it, so take it how you will, I guess.

I think Apollanaut is pretty much on-the-money here.

I've often referred to intuition as "the map," although that's simplifying it a bit. Intuition is the database of all your experiences thusfar, objective and subjective, and all the information you have collected over your lifetime. It seems to me N's will send an autonomous "agent" through our map to gather information about the subject that we're experiencing. That agent is actually able to do any reasoning functions itself based on your F or T preferences, but separated from our conscious minds. Then it feeds us the conclusion it comes to.

The agent is, of course, subject to your same state-of-mind, so depending on that, and depending on the amount of information you have already collected about the subject, the results will be accurate or inaccurate.

S-types have intuition, they just don't pay much attention to it. I notice that with the S-types in my life that information for them is like a dump. Ask for details on a subject and they can relate volumes of information, but there doesn't appear to be much reflection involved, nor do they seem to connect this information to other pieces of "unrelated" information the way N-types do.

I don't know how true this is of anybody else, but I have been able to turn inward and look at the abstract way that my mind handles information. Concepts appear in my head as abstract shapes. I'm most aware of these processes when I'm writing fiction. My muse throws shape at me, and those shapes can represent very complicated concepts, but I'll know instantly how this concept affects every single aspect of the fiction I'm currently writing. "Oh, that's a good idea, but I need to change this and this and this for it to work."