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When is it type?

proteanmix

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I've noticed how often people evaluate others' problems, likes/dislikes, relationship patterns, careers, and other issues in terms of MBTI. How much can we say is type related and how much is other factors? Is this the same thing as nature vs. nurture?

I personally would like to use type as one of the last factors that can influence someone's behavior. Things like sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, education level, ethnicity, location, and upbringing are more salient and reasonable places to start looking before moving in to type. Do people think we should look at those factors first and then branch out to type or does type influence stretch beyond some of those factors?

I do believe there are valid instances when type should be examined and used as a likely explanation for behavior. But what are those instances? For example are entertainment tastes or career choices type-dependent?
 

SolitaryWalker

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Stop trying to apply MBTI to real life. Its not what its about, its about the way our unconscious mind works, and nothing more.
 

proteanmix

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Then why do you have INTP in your profile? You must consciously identify with some aspect of MBTI and you exist (as far as I know).
 

ptgatsby

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ISTP
I've noticed how often people evaluate others' problems, likes/dislikes, relationship patterns, careers, and other issues in terms of MBTI. How much can we say is type related and how much is other factors? Is this the same thing as nature vs. nurture?

I personally would like to use type as one of the last factors that can influence someone's behavior. Things like sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, education level, ethnicity, location, and upbringing are more salient and reasonable places to start looking before moving in to type. Do people think we should look at those factors first and then branch out to type or does type influence stretch beyond some of those factors?

I do believe there are valid instances when type should be examined and used as a likely explanation for behavior. But what are those instances? For example are entertainment tastes or career choices type-dependent?

Technically, and the way I approach it, type only says as much about a situation as the correlations show. For example, it is clear that certain types prefer certain jobs - so as far as certain statements go (like Ts and Js being more dominant the higher up the food chain you go) can be readily verified and applied. The mistake that I see being made is the reverse - saying that INTJs should be leaders rather than Leaders are often INTJs. Same would go with nurses and ISFJs, to use another very dominated situation.

Using other factors, except for IQ and certain custom formulas, are not as effective, making personality factors one of the dominant traits as far as job stratification goes.


In short, if it cannot be showed that it has a significant correlation relative to other factors, either adjusted for other factors or not (^1), then type has no business being involved - and in general, any factor that matches that shouldn't be involved. In general, most situations that involve preference of action will involve personality types to a significant degree. However, in more defined sex roles/etc, those factors determine behaviour and preferences as well. In a way, personality is used as a "people are people" starting point, which then get wrapped into religion, sex, ethnic grouping, upbringing.

--

^1 - For example, in a society that didn't allow women in the workforce or there is a significant glass ceiling, sex would be quite dominant. However, that could be controlled for.



Stop trying to apply MBTI to real life. Its not what its about, its about the way our unconscious mind works, and nothing more.

Yah, I agree. It's a useless intellectual excersize that doesn't have a foundation in anything demonstratable or any relevance to any real life situation. That's why it exists in philosophy rather than selling itself to the corporate sector.
 

proteanmix

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Yah, I agree. It's a useless intellectual excersize that doesn't have a foundation in anything demonstratable or any relevance to any real life situation. That's why it exists in philosophy rather than selling itself to the corporate sector.

So why are we on this forum? Why do we talk about it? Why do we find certain profiles more appealing than others? Why are people selling it like a brand?
 

ptgatsby

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So why are we on this forum? Why do we talk about it? Why do we find certain profiles more appealing than others? Why are people selling it like a brand?

That was sarcasm, for the record... ;)
 

Athenian200

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Stop trying to apply MBTI to real life. Its not what its about, its about the way our unconscious mind works, and nothing more.

This is a perfect example of Ti (BlueWing) reacting to Fe (proteanmix). BlueWing (INTP) attempted to defend against proteanmix (ENFJ)'s perceived attempt to subjugate an internal system to externally defined rules (values), because BlueWing wants to do the opposite, subjugate an external reality to internal rules (system). BlueWing unconsciously values the integrity of that internal system, against an external reality. proteanmix only cares about the meaning of that system in terms of how to make an externally defined reality/system impact her internal reality. They're both using the same process and looking at the same part of reality, but in reverse with reversed priorities.

This may be more about introversion and extraversion, but I think it's especially relevent in the context I mentioned above.

The MBTI is most useful for explaining unconscious processes, but those unconscious processes can help explain interpersonal reactions to a degree, though not precisely because an abstraction cannot fully express the complexities of reality.

Does that make any sense?
 

ptgatsby

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My first answer was legitimate. Type can be used either at the personal level, which isn't what you were asking (to help understand oneself)... or it can be applied where it has been shown to be a factor.
 

proteanmix

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This is a perfect example of Ti (BlueWing) reacting to Fe (proteanmix). BlueWing (INTP) attempted to defend against proteanmix (ENFJ)'s perceived attempt to subjugate an internal system to externally defined rules (values), because BlueWing wants to do the opposite, subjugate an external reality to internal rules (system). BlueWing unconsciously values the integrity of that internal system, against an external reality. proteanmix only cares about the meaning of that system in terms of how to make an externally defined reality/system impact her internal reality. They're both using the same process and looking at the same part of reality, but in reverse with reversed priorities.

Can you explain what are the external values/rules and internal values/rules are in this situation?

Wouldn't my value on the externals be a conscious projection of my unconscious? Doesn't that bring us right back to the beginning, hence my consciously expressed type?
 

SolitaryWalker

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Then why do you have INTP in your profile? You must consciously identify with some aspect of MBTI and you exist (as far as I know).

It just means that INTP resembles the way my unconscious mind works. It has nothing to do with my personality.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Can you explain what are the external values/rules and internal values/rules are in this situation?

Wouldn't my value on the externals be a conscious projection of my unconscious? Doesn't that bring us right back to the beginning, hence my consciously expressed type?

My concern was that if you try to apply typology to the external world too much you will actually forget that it is rooted in the unconscious after all. Its core is there, and not in the practical world.
 

SolitaryWalker

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So why are we on this forum? Why do we talk about it? Why do we find certain profiles more appealing than others? Why are people selling it like a brand?

I am here to nourish my understanding of human nature. Most are under the delusion that MBTI will help them learn about their personality and that of others so they, Js especially, can stuff them into the neatly ordered boxes which they believe outline the way the whole world flows.
 

Athenian200

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My concern was that if you try to apply typology to the external world too much you will actually forget that it is rooted in the unconscious after all. Its core is there, and not in the practical world.

Pmix is only trying learn how to best apply the system in such a way that it modifies her internal reality to accord with her externally defined values, which involve helping people. Both of you are trying to modify one another's reality via rules that make sense to you, but make the other person feel violated.

Is this making any sense yet?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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So why are we on this forum? Why do we talk about it? Why do we find certain profiles more appealing than others? Why are people selling it like a brand?

I'm interested in it, because unlike an INTP I see all sorts of practical applications for it. You just have to realize that some parts of the theory are more practical than others. I'm still perfecting my understanding at this point of which parts are more practical than others. I find simply having definitions for the eight functions to be the most useful part at the moment: Fi, Fe, Ti, Te, Ni, Ne, Ti, Te.
 

SolitaryWalker

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So why are we on this forum? Why do we talk about it? Why do we find certain profiles more appealing than others? Why are people selling it like a brand?

Those who sell it to the corporate world are doubtlessly abusing it.

And it doesnt have to mean anything to me in order for it to be in my profile, its just an objective statement about my nature. Just like I have so many fingers or so many teeth, that doesnt mean anything to me, but if the profile were to ask this and I deemed the information to be useful I'd put it there.
 

heart

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So type has nothing to do at all with the way people act or who they are attracted to as mates?
 

SolitaryWalker

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The way type manifests itself does, but not type in itself.
 

Economica

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I've noticed how often people evaluate others' problems, likes/dislikes, relationship patterns, careers, and other issues in terms of MBTI. (...) I personally would like to use type as one of the last factors that can influence someone's behavior.

Well, this is an MBTI board. :) We're not going to be structuring our discussions like we would IRL, we're going to be focusing on whatever is or could be MBTI-related.

For example are entertainment tastes or career choices type-dependent?

I don't know, let's find out. :nerd: :party2: :D
 
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