Need help typing my lady friend!

[JocktheMotie]

So, I've got it narrowed down to 2 types, ESFJ or ESTJ. She is definitely extroverted, very gregarious, and a ridiculous drunk. Definitely S, because she can tell the exact hour I shaved by looking at and feeling my face, criticizes things like the length of the hair on the back of my neck and whether my car is clean or not. Definitely J because I've never really met a more ordered, organized, scheduled person, and spontaneity is something I don't she is capable of.

It's just the T or the F I'm not really sure about. On one hand, she cannot take criticism at all, if we have an argument or something about a certain point of view [I usually just defer because I don't care that much, but sometimes I have to take up the opposite side!] and it becomes resolved or is a stalemate, she completely shuts herself down and won't talk to me for the next couple ours. She just can't let things go if she can't make me see her point of view, which leads me to think F.

But then again, she does exhibit "overseer" characteristics and is very concerned with things going the "right way" and with efficiency. For someone so easily hurt, she actually defers to me [an INTP!] in situations of intimacy or in displays of affection, which I can't imagine an F doing, unless I misunderstand it. So these kind of things lead me to believe T.

Anyways I'm not great at typing yet, still learning the system. So any help could be appreciated.

 

[Giggly]

Do you think she likes you?

 

[JocktheMotie]

Do you think she likes you?

Well we are dating, so I would certainly hope so.

 

[entropie]

Maybe you can use the Socionics definitions to figure out her type. They are more accurately and better structured, when it comes to understand S types.

From what you say (especially the notorious drunkard thing ), I would type your gf to be part of the Alpha Quadra. What would make her ESFJ. I can come up with no arguement against that, besides the one that your perception of your gf could be wrong, but this point I do rule out.

Here is an excerpt from socionics on the matter:

Quadra - Wikisocion

Alpha Quadra: (ESFJ)

Romance styles
Romantic relationships usually evolve from shared activities and interests. Alphas try to keep their partners in good spirits, and avoid direct accusations or harsh criticism; relationships are seen primarily as a source of happiness. Playful interactions are based around light teasing and making the partner laugh; Alphas create intimacy in a comfortable, welcoming, cozy atmosphere.

Delta Quadra: (ESTJ)

Romance styles
Delta romantic relationships usually begin simply as the encounter of two individuals interested in a relationship and each other in a particular moment, with very little in terms of outward demonstrations of "romance" in the "wooing" sense of the term or in strong external demonstrations of emotions. Deltas are more focused on the present moment than Gammas, and therefore even relationships of very strong attachment do not lead to constant concerns as to their longer-term practical feasibility. Deltas see as optimal romantic relationships those where partners spend time together on fun activities and sharing ideas of potential practical application. Romantic atmospheres are low-key, based on comfort but practicality.

---

Should give you a hint to make your choice, the descriptions are opposing.

 

[raz]

You're right, she's showing T and F characteristics, but the main difference here is between a Fe or Te dominant process. Remember that an SJ temperament makes her much more apt to keep things ordered and structured. The SJ temperament in an E can give off a T impression. However, with Fe dominant, her first priority would be in her relationships and the people around her. She is more concerned about making everyone else feel secure and understood than managed.

An ESFJ is like a waitress. They're interested in getting to know the people, and wanting to know everything about them. They're so incredibly friendly because of Fe and being an S. They're in reality, but want to focus their efforts on others. They're also hell-bent on enforcing social traditions. An ESTJ, however, is obsessed with control over their environment. They're not afraid to step on someone's toes to make sure everything is done how it's supposed to be and everyone is doing what they should. They're administrators for a reason.

She sounds like an ESTJ. Try cracking a joke with her about a stranger, and gauge her response. If she defends the person, she's acting off Fe. If she laughs with you, she's most likely ESTJ. That's how I've figured out a coworker was a T. She finds all of my joke about other people funny. If I tell an FJ at work, they find it rude and inconsiderate.

 

[JocktheMotie]

She sounds like an ESTJ. Try cracking a joke with her about a stranger, and gauge her response. If she defends the person, she's acting off Fe. If she laughs with you, she's most likely ESTJ. That's how I've figured out a coworker was a T. She finds all of my joke about other people funny. If I tell an FJ at work, they find it rude and inconsiderate.

This is definitely her, this is actually something we enjoy, I hope that doesn't make us sound like cruel bitter people.

And Entropie, thank you for that resource! I've dabbled in socionics and it definitely seems a more reliable place to get my typing information. Especially when it referred to romantic relationship structure, that's pretty much exactly what she goes for and one of my big gripes about her is her lack of "awe" or wonder with the world. Everything is so matter of fact it's sometimes depressing, but it does help keep me a bit grounded.

Thanks for the help people!

 

[raz]

Maybe you can use the Socionics definitions to figure out her type. They are more accurately and better structured, when it comes to understand S types.

From what you say (especially the notorious drunkard thing ), I would type your gf to be part of the Alpha Quadra. What would make her ESFJ. I can come up with no arguement against that, besides the one that your perception of your gf could be wrong, but this point I do rule out.

Here is an excerpt from socionics on the matter:

Quadra - Wikisocion

Alpha Quadra: (ESFJ)

Romance styles
Romantic relationships usually evolve from shared activities and interests. Alphas try to keep their partners in good spirits, and avoid direct accusations or harsh criticism; relationships are seen primarily as a source of happiness. Playful interactions are based around light teasing and making the partner laugh; Alphas create intimacy in a comfortable, welcoming, cozy atmosphere.

Delta Quadra: (ESTJ)

Romance styles
Delta romantic relationships usually begin simply as the encounter of two individuals interested in a relationship and each other in a particular moment, with very little in terms of outward demonstrations of "romance" in the "wooing" sense of the term or in strong external demonstrations of emotions. Deltas are more focused on the present moment than Gammas, and therefore even relationships of very strong attachment do not lead to constant concerns as to their longer-term practical feasibility. Deltas see as optimal romantic relationships those where partners spend time together on fun activities and sharing ideas of potential practical application. Romantic atmospheres are low-key, based on comfort but practicality.

---

Should give you a hint to make your choice, the descriptions are opposing.

Last time I checked, the cognitive processes of Socionics, although defined very similarly to MBTI, have different roles in the types than MBTI. ESTJ and ESFJ in MBTI are ESTP and ESFP in Socionics.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Last time I checked, the cognitive processes of Socionics, although defined very similarly to MBTI, have different roles in the types than MBTI. ESTJ and ESFJ in MBTI are ESTP and ESFP in Socionics.

My understanding of J/P is derived from the MBTI versions. What's the difference in socionics?

 

[raz]

My understanding of J/P is derived from the MBTI versions. What's the difference in socionics?

Probably the same, just the system behind defining which process is dominant or auxiliary is different. Don't try to mix Socionics and MBTI when typing people, it'll be bad. Focus on one. It helped me a lot to read some books on MBTI. I have Type Talk, Gifts Differing, Nurture by Nature and The Art of SpeedReading People.

 

[Little Linguist]

Yeah, totally...Look according to MBTI I'm an ENFP, according to socionics, I'm an ENFJ, according to Quadra, I'm an IJ (Childlike - HUH????). So yeah....

 

[entropie]

Socionics is more in touch with my reality.

MBTI is for me basically the 4 functions system and that's about it.

It's true that Functions are alot different in Socionics but they make more sense to me than the system from MBTI.

Have it like you want, compared to the book of life, I think socionics is more in touch with reality and their definitions of type are basically the same like MBTI, except function distribution.

 

[raz]

There's no need to debate the usefulness of either. The whole point was to not give mixed information.

 

[nightning]

F not T

so ESFJ

 

[entropie]

yes, but if both approaches to typology talk about basically the same types with just different function orders and you have a question concerning a type, isnt it wrong if you not try to get the maximum of information about what could be or could be not, before you make a decision.

His OP wasnt like the typical MBTI textbook mambo jumbo and I thought, I give him the opportunity to broaden his view on the matter, to minimize a failure of interpretation (if that's even possible )

 

[raz]

Just forget it. This has gone way too off topic.

 

[entropie]

agreed !

That seems to be a problem here, I have observed lately. Discussions, tend to go way off its limits

 

[JocktheMotie]

Thanks again for your help guys. Both of you. I understand where you both are coming from, it's always good to have more/more accurate information, yet I now do realize that both typing systems are not completely equal and comparisons between them should be limited.

So thanks again, she's definitely an ESTJ and I'm surprised I didn't see it before.