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The elusive INFJ

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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After reading more information on INFJs, I'm convinced that people are mistyped as INFJs very, very often. Many mistypings are actually ISFJs, and some are ISFPs. Some may even be ISTJs because of their clear-cut sense of right and wrong, and possibly some INTJs for those who are focused on intellectual pursuits.

From readings on this and the INTP forums, everyone and their dog seems to have an INFJ ex and that is pretty unlikely imo. :holy: I can see how a person would assume an introverted feeler who is structured or inflexible is an INFJ, but that is not accurate. Their primary function is Ni, which is not women's intuition, but an extremely abstract approach to life. It is a rare type, very private, one of the most conceptual of all the types, etc. There are many introverted feelers who need a great deal of private time, have complex emotions, and a deep sense of altruism. These people are not necessarily INFJs. Most of the quicky tests don't really give reliable results. The INFJ profile on some such sites even uses the word psychic to describe them. That right there will draw in all the introverts who want (or worse think they have) super powers. INFJs are less than 1% of the population and withdrawn, complex, extremely abstract... it's somewhat unlikely the average person will get to know one well, let alone date one. Thoughts? This has just been my impression which could well be flawed.

INFJ

INFJ Profile
 

htb

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I would be curious to know what Rivercrow thinks, at least in terms of test application and error reduction.
 

Hellbourn3

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Toonia, where was that "dating" point derived from, another thread? At that moment your point w/in your post eluded me to some extent too...
 

heart

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I thought I was INFJ based on the MBTI until I took the cognitive functions test.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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One percent of the U.S. population is 3 million people. There are lots of INFJ's out there, but they are not all clustered together in the real world. On the internet rare types can group together and seem common, so you should expect to find more online than you would expect to find in RL if you are looking at spots where INFJ's would want to congregate.

Having said that I think you are right in that there is some degree of mistyping of INFJ's. But even if the mistypes were corrected, you should expect to see far more INFJ's on a site like this than you would know if RL.
 

Caffiend

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INFJs do seem to share common interests

I've been posting on a weather board for almost three years now, and it would be safe to assume that at least 90% of the posters there are IN's.... When polled, 38% of the board came up as INFJ.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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INFJs do seem to share common interests

I've been posting on a weather board for almost three years now, and it would be safe to assume that at least 90% of the posters there are IN's.... When polled, 38% of the board came up as INFJ.
Based on the type description and the statistics i've read about MBTI, that would be a good example of more people assuming to be infj than actually are. INFJs are about 1% of the population, unless everyone starts labeling themselves that who are not. Also, weather is an interesting topic, but there isn't anything about it that would attract such large percentages of infjs that i can see. It has an abstract quality, but does not delve into the minds and hidden worlds of people, it doesn't involve imagination, it is not a subjective system of ideas, but one that can be observed and measured. Weather by its nature has concrete implications and it would make far more sense to me that it would attract Sensors in general - especially STs. There isn't anything in the literature to suggest that kind of tie to nature. The infj tie to nature is more aesthetic, philosophical, abstract to a level that defies definition.

My concern is that on iNuitive central, then INTPcentral, and now here, there is such an emphasis on valuing iNtuitive reasoning, that Sensing becomes a dumping ground for whatever thinking styles are rejected by the group as a whole. That is why we get these silly stereotypes like S's don't have a sense of humor, can't understand sarcasm, are unintelligent, etc. Of course people will assume they are an N instead when they are intelligent and enjoy sarcasm, etc. Also, it is very popular to consider oneself intuitive in the traditional use of the word. It implies special insight. Sensing is a word with less meaning to people in general. Sensors have a much richer pallet of reasoning than these boards suggest. I would just bet that if Sensing were treated with more respect and understood for all its diversity and depth that many posters here would realize they are not Ns at all. Many people who think they are infj's or think they know one would also discover a different type - and very often an ISFJ for example.

INFJ and ISFJ are equal in value, both with specific strengths and weaknesses, but they are quite different. Perhaps the reason it seems important to raise this issue is that people don't often understand the infj, and by lumping in a bunch of other types, labeling them as infj, we get this confused mess and a bunch of people assuming they understand a type that they actually have no experience with whatsoever.
 

htb

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That is why we get these silly stereotypes like S's don't have a sense of humor, can't understand sarcasm, are unintelligent, etc.
It's more strongly motivated by memories of noogies, wedgies, rejected dance invitations, etcetera.
 

heart

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Wouldn't taking the cognitive functions test shed more light on who was and was not an INFJ?

If this board were to follow to form of other boards in this sort of vein, can we next expect witch hunts and outtings of those not deemed legitamately INFJ? ;)
 

darlets

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Toonia the other side of this is I think some people *want* to be typed as INFJ. I had a girl tell me she was an INFJ and I quite strongly think she wasn't.

INFJ are considerd to be *unique and special* (blah blah blah) so I wonder if some people engage in some self delusion. This is a real stab in the dark and based off very little evidence by the way.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Wouldn't taking the cognitive functions test shed more light on who was and was not an INFJ?

If this board were to follow to form of other boards in this sort of vein, can we next expect witch hunts and outtings of those not deemed legitamately INFJ? ;)
Oh heavens NO! But thanks for bringing it up - if that occurred to you, then it occurred to others. The intention here is to remain completely in theory, no application please. :doh:

There has recently been a push to draw in more sensors, and it got me to thinking about some of the advantages to valuing Sensing as equal to iNtuition. One advantage is having less lumping and confusion regarding types. Also, it is true that infj's tend towards being misunderstood (the profiles state that), but there have been many people haphazardly assuming all sorts of things based on profiles and experiences of people of other types. My only point is to get people to rethink some deeply ingrained assumptions.

If i saw an infj witch hunt start, i'd be slapping folks away pretty darn fast - so would many of the other infj's. I just don't see that kind of problem lasting very long. :hug:
 

cafe

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I don't really mind if people think their bad past experiences are with people they have mislabeled as INFJs. It gives the poor SFJs a break.
 

heart

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It is just that on two other MBTI type boards, I have seen an INFJ start insisting that other INFJ weren't really INFJ or whatever type they thought they were was not the right one.

On one of those boards the person started openly posting that some people were not displaying their proper congnitive functions or sending PM accusing the person not being what they said they were. It really caused some upset for some people.

I keep seeing N's say that many sensors would rather be N because of the descriptions, but any S types that I have known, have been proud of falling under the S type descriptions and didn't really want to indentify with the N type descriptions. I cannot therefore really understand the worry that people won't want to be S type.
 

Totenkindly

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If i saw an infj witch hunt start, i'd be slapping folks away pretty darn fast - so would many of the other infj's. I just don't see that kind of problem lasting very long. :hug:

There will be no witch hunting here.

(At least, not until I blow this whistle!) :footballreferee:


It is just that on two other MBTI type boards, I have seen an INFJ start insisting that other INFJ weren't really INFJ or whatever type they thought they were was the right one. On one of those boards the person started openly posting that some people were not displaying their proper cognitive functions or sending PM accusing the person not being what they said they were. It really caused some upset for some people.

If there are issues like this, I would prefer to see them taken care of between individuals via PM (the latter option), not posted publicly... which only encourages ganging up on others. And even then, I would prefer that the PMs be civil ones, not accusatory ones.

Sometimes people can be bothered by someone else's assertions of their type, if it seems to be very off. Things like that happen. [As one of the people who has on occasion had her type challenged, I've learned to accept it.]

If someone finds they cannot suck it up and keep their composure about the seeming discrepancies, then a personal PM discussing the issue seems appropriate (and I have actually gotten a few... and even sent one myself) -- but it shouldn't be an accusation, it should be one that notes some confusion/concern and asks to hear more about the person in question and their own sense of the type. We're here to learn about type and about each other.

After all, it's just a type. In the end, who really cares what someone else's type is?
 

nanook

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one should never argue that "a type is like this or that" based on the idea one has on the functions becaue a) socionics may be right and b) the whole function modell may be insufficient anyway.

what is known is that people score in tests according to their selfimages/archetypes, so rigid folks will score as IxxJ and it's kind of rude to suggest, they are mistyping. people have rigid expartners who are ... intuitive judgers. i had such a partner and she was ... uhm different from me. complementary. wh?


I have allways been a fan of my idea of Ni + Fe. i was a bit suspicious about Te and rather attracted to Ti, becaue i like the deep unificating synthesis that all introverted functions have (phyilosopher style heading to nonduality).
and i was paranoid about the idea i might have Fi (because that would mean i have a tremendous shadow)

when i was a myer briggs believer it was "clear that i must be an infj".

and the comparsion to all those other infj who are so different from me drove me rather nuts.

nowadays i compare myself to INFp ISFp and INTp (i think of them as modelled in socionics but i also see living humans) and i have a better time.

it also helps to know about psychology of developement (as pointed out by wilber or spiral dynamics) because about half of the attitudes people express and half of the believes they feel determined by, are rather developementals issues than functional horizontal type-traits. but these patters are much lookalikes.

by the way: how "structured" a person acually is the best example for this confusion. perceiver can be verry structured. (no matter wheter mbti or socionc perceiver.) but they don't have to be, just becaus some of them are and proclaim that this was type related.

i am someone who constantly figures out how things (mostly humans + the kosmos) work, and i am verry vigilant to patterns in group behaviour. i like to "design" guidelines to syncronize morals with human nature.

most other infj i meet are the opposit of me: rather selfabsorbed, heading for aims like a walk or writing something. relating to people on a basis of interest and proclaimed attitudes, rather than observing motives behind the diplomatic 'getalong'. they talk totally "descriptive". dont explain why things work how but rather assign attributes and values. they may "use" types, but verry rarley try to develope an own functional vision, that may be critical to given descriptions until they can fully explain what they see. they want to categorize and finish with it. no need to understand. much more likely they read the newspapers and rant about politics (wich i explain with extroverted intuition of an Fi Ne type) or how we need to save the planet. "because" it's good and urgend - no explainaition needed. the good thing about their descriptive linear nature is their ability to memorize and fantasies about pointless stories. so they are the quick authors. i study forever.


i hope my broken english is understandable and i excuse for my rather "selfabsorbed" invasion into a discussion (with users i don't know in a forum i don't know). that's not my style, but happens. a foreing language is like alcohol. makes u loose inhibitions and context sensitivity.
 

nanook

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It is just that on two other MBTI type boards, I have seen an INFJ start insisting that other INFJ weren't really INFJ or whatever type they thought they were was not the right one.

i can add futher borads :D

it was hard for me, to stop identifiyng with the idea that i could be possibly be sure about my type. no one can, because even if you totally transcend how your own mind works you still dont have the data to confirm the whole interpersonal-retative patterns that define a type. wishfull overassessment of "introspective knwowing" and identication with trait based descriptions is the devil. people accusing themselves and others of errors in this proces are just obsesed demons trying to get free from attachment :)
 

htb

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If disagreement about type is used as a pretext for personal attacks, then it is inappropriate inasmuch as any poor behavior is.

But contention in order to clarify a matter for all parties, an offense? Silly stuff, and an excuse for the hypersensitive. As stated elsewhere, this is an MBTI board; expect disagreements in keeping with the theme.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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INFJ are considerd to be *unique and special* (blah blah blah) so I wonder if some people engage in some self delusion. This is a real stab in the dark and based off very little evidence by the way.
That should not be the case. There aren't better or worse types. If that is the reading of it, then something is off.

I don't really mind if people think their bad past experiences are with people they have mislabeled as INFJs. It gives the poor SFJs a break.
There's truth in that. Part of what i'm talking about is not necessarily negative traits, but just lumped up assumptions that make type distinctions unclear. However, the bad past experience bit muddles the issue for any type imo.

It is just that on two other MBTI type boards, I have seen an INFJ start insisting that other INFJ weren't really INFJ or whatever type they thought they were was not the right one.

On one of those boards the person started openly posting that some people were not displaying their proper congnitive functions or sending PM accusing the person not being what they said they were. It really caused some upset for some people.
Good lands. That is 100% not my intention. I'm a strong believer in personal freedom of thought. Having other people tell you what type you are, or just telling you who you are based on a few online fragments seems ridiculous to me. Of course we all have impressions and best guesses, but in my mind it crosses a line to go to anyone and declare to know their type better than they do.

I hope this thread wasn't a bad idea, but these boards are useful for trying to clarify this stuff, and there have been years of infj muddle-fuddle from what i've read.
 

heart

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If there are issues like this, I would prefer to see them taken care of between individuals via PM (the latter option), not posted publicly... which only encourages ganging up on others. And even then, I would prefer that the PMs be civil ones, not accusatory ones.

Sometimes people can be bothered by someone else's assertions of their type, if it seems to be very off. Things like that happen. [As one of the people who has on occasion had her type challenged, I've learned to accept it.]


Based on what I have seen, I would say that if a person is asking opinions about their type and wanting feedback about then great give opinions but if they seem comfortable and confident in their type, then it really isn't someone else's place to type them. Since we cannot be in another person's head (and certainly online we don't see the full rounded person), we can't begin to guess if they really are more abstract/theory based OR practical/hands on/fact based or not, so how could we begin to know if they were or weren't really N types? We sort of just have to take their word for how they score on the MBTI.

I do think it is a good idea to always keep the cognitive functions test out and visible so that people can take it and have a closer look at what cognitive functions they use more than others.
 
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