Describe Si more clearly

[raz]

Yeah, I'd think music is more Ni.

 

[Jack Flak]

Yeah, I'd think music is more Ni.

Nah, it's Fi/Se/Ni/Te

 

[Virtual ghost]

Anti, well, my music teachers back in grade school all said I had a "gift" for understanding music. The people in my band (both school band and out-of-school) think I have that "talent" too. Music theory really works well for my Si-Te combination, as it puts my inner impressions of the notes and tones (Si?) into a working system (Te).

What I'm not good at is making up my own music. I really struggle with that, and those same people mentioned above are surprised by the obvious gap. So it's not all easy sailing for me, I have some big obstacles.

So far it looks that my N is correct.

You are good at music because you have easy time with remembering the song in all of it's elements.


But you have a problem in making your own music because you have nothing to repeat. So in this case Si is working against you.

 

[Ishida]

I have a very good memory myself, but if I go to the past I try to find other things that were there that I may have not picked up on when the actual event occurred and why it happened, and what it will mean for the future. That may be a combination. How do you all feel when someone who doesn't agree with MBTI comes into a thread gives their reasoning for it?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Playing music could be just one exemple but in theory Si should be good in all areas where past and experiance make a difference.

 

[Eric B]

I hAVE a question: would this be Si: Like I'll be walking around and something will remind me of the past and then part of my mind will think I'm in 2004 in some other city and I have to keep reminding myself that it's 2008 and this is Chicago. It's like I smell the smells and hear the sounds of the other place aswell as my age I feel younger (cuz I'm in the past). Or is that Ne or something else entirely. same thing happens with certain pictures.

Yeah; that's RELIEF Si, alright!

 

[Cimarron]

Yeah, I'd think music is more Ni.

When trying to write original music, I think I use my Si and Ne together as a "fake Ni". I bring together pieces and variations of things I already know. This still isn't easy, because Ne is my 4th function and so is pretty weak.

So Eric, like those times when I'm half-asleep and I forget that I'm in my dorm instead of my bedroom (which is back home in another state), and for a few seconds I feel disoriented, with the outside world clashing with my memories--is that another example of Si, or...doesn't that happen to everyone when they're half-asleep?

 

[Kaizer]

I hAVE a question: would this be Si: Like I'll be walking around and something will remind me of the past and then part of my mind will think I'm in 2004 in some other city and I have to keep reminding myself that it's 2008 and this is Chicago. It's like I smell the smells and hear the sounds of the other place aswell as my age I feel younger (cuz I'm in the past). Or is that Ne or something else entirely. same thing happens with certain pictures.

Thats Si relief where today is explained by what yesterdays were like and what they were about. Ne gives the insight/perception that results in knowing stuff like 'possibilities and probabilities of possibilities'. Slightly simply stated, Si = comfort derived from 'concreteness' based on hindsight, versus Ne = insight into the future based upon awareness of the present.

 

[Amargith]

Ok..question..is Si combined with Ne also the explanation for a fotographic memory (when you have to take an exam or something)?

And is it also responsible for motoric memory?

 

[Cimarron]

And is it also responsible for motoric memory?

You mean "muscle memory"? Like the way an athlete remembers the "feel" of a body position being the "right" position? This is something I was thinking about mentioning. I think it's kind of borderline Se/Si, which makes more sense if you believe (as many people do) that there's no clear line between the extroverted "side" of a function and the introverted "side".

I don't want to start claiming everything is Si, and something like muscle memory seems outside the scope of MBTI etc. But Si, or maybe Se, does seem to fit, from what we've been saying.

 

[Amargith]

Well I was thinking more in my own experience of playing the flute. I haven't played for almost 20 years, and learning a new song is no longer possible, as I can't even remember the notes consciously. However, give me a music piece I've played when I was younger, and I don't think about it, it just comes out. My fingers somehow 'remember'

(I am aware that Si is supposed to be my inferior function, so I'm sure it's not as well developped, but it still makes me wonder)

Same for my photographic memory. When I take a test (and I've really made a point of studying), I literally 'see' the book or notes in my head and I turn the pages in my head till I get to the section I need, and then all I have to do is copy it down. So I'm wondering if that too is Si..

 

[Llewellyn]

Nah, it's Fi/Se/Ni/Te

Yeah, this is ISFP, "The Composer", I guess.

It appears every individual experiences music in a different way, so NF, NT, and I guess SJ will all have their unique experience of how they see music. I'm sounding INFJ...

 

[Eric B]

When trying to write original music, I think I use my Si and Ne together as a "fake Ni". I bring together pieces and variations of things I already know. This still isn't easy, because Ne is my 4th function and so is pretty weak.

So Eric, like those times when I'm half-asleep and I forget that I'm in my dorm instead of my bedroom (which is back home in another state), and for a few seconds I feel disoriented, with the outside world clashing with my memories--is that another example of Si, or...doesn't that happen to everyone when they're half-asleep?

Not sure.
Though I do know when I've been a long road trip, and I finally get back home and go to bed, I get flashbacks like I'm still moving down a road. I'm sure that's Si, but I'm not sure if everyone experiences that or not.

I also see your signature is a "note to yourself". That reminds me of my parents as well, (along with other Melancholies). They do it, and used to suggest it to me at times. (Thought it was stupid). You would think they wouldn't need notes, and could just remember. But I guess it is to counter negative thoughts or whatever that come up daily, or whatever.

So what is that practice? Si+Te+Fi, perhaps?

 

[raz]

I'm reading over the Introverted Sensing Types description in Gifts Differing, and one paragraph stands out:

Along with their solid and evident virtues, they have one odd and charming quality that may not be apparent until they are very well known. Their sense impressions cause a vivid private reaction to the essence of the thing sensed. The reaction is all their own and unpredictable. It is impossible to know what droll and unexpected associations of ideas take place behind their outer calm. Only when they are "off duty"--relaxing from extraversion, responsibility and the judging attitude---will they sometimes give spontaneous expression to this inner perception. Then they may say what comes into their minds and give others a glimpse of their perceptions and associations, which may be absurd, irreverent, touching, or hilarious, but never predictable, because their way of sensing life is intensely individual."

The mention of being in an "Off-Duty" mode is what caught my attention. I've been trying to find words to explain this mindset, but it's difficult. I find myself in two different ways of thinking. One way is when I'm consciously altering everything extraverted. Everything I say, everything I do, I'm filtering it before it goes out, because I want that outgoing interaction to be intentional and specific. The other way is when I'm not in conscious control of what I'm doing. It's not a reckless mode, but it's more as if I'm acting off of my environment rather than my judgment of the environment. Does that make sense?

One example is at work. If I'm busy thinking about something, when I deal with customers, I'm going to be short, critical, and impersonal with them. But, when I'm perfectly comfortable, enjoying my surroundings at work, I'm going to shift into a mode where I let myself be modified by the external needs of everyone else. It's like I become this gentle and patient person. It's hard to explain.

From this paragraph, can it be inferred then that this "off-duty" mode is when we're no longer controlling the external environment with Te, and instead we're interacting with it through Si?

One thing that came to mind when I read that was one day when I went to talk to the instructor of an Intro to Programming and Logic course. I spent about 25 minutes talking to him about why I thought I wanted to try programming. He kept asking me question after question, with the frequent, "Do you understand what I'm saying?"'s in the conversation. Near the end, I had this little feeling like I wanted to cry. It wasn't that strong, but it was just the impression that I got from the instructor. He was intimidating, and that was the effect he had on me for the last few minutes and the few minutes afterward. Is that Si, or just Fi?

 

[Jack Flak]

Yeah, this is ISFP, "The Composer", I guess.

It appears every individual experiences music in a different way, so NF, NT, and I guess SJ will all have their unique experience of how they see music. I'm sounding INFJ...

Yeah. I suppose my music listening experience is more Ti/Ne/Fi/Si/Se/Fe/Ni/Te, if you want to get technical. Or maybe I'm just crazy!

 

[Cimarron]

From this paragraph, can it be inferred then that this "off-duty" mode is when we're no longer controlling the external environment with Te, and instead we're interacting with it through Si?

Probably. Te is a very strong function, I'm sure you feel it too, it being our 2nd function. Since that's our best extroverted function, that's what most people see of us ISJs. But the Si should come out when we're not interacting our environment, and more just observing it and being in it. Our relaxed state.

I know when I'm comfortable, not stressed by anything, and in a good mood, my train of thought can go a little "spontaneous", I guess. This is probably Si without the Te backbone. It's how I decide what to do in my leisure time, I just let that inner "do I feel like doing this?" guide me. Though probably everyone does that. It's also how I decide what food I want to eat when I have some choices. It's almost like predicting how the taste is going to feel, but it's not even that active and physical. I mean I don't "taste" it in my mind.

And I've experienced that last paragraph too, if I understand you correctly. Si/Fi combo sounds reasonable...I'm not sure of how much stuff Fi covers, though. I do want to check that out later.

---------

(non-Si)

Eric, the note-to-self idea is something I never used to do, either, except in my head. I do it to make sure I stay focused, and it seems mostly like Te. Focusing too much on immediate tasks can let you forget the longer term tasks. Also, the act of writing it down helps me remember, I think.

Amargith, forgot to say that I don't see how that would involve Ne. Maybe your 4th function peeked its head out. I would guess in general that for music: Fi gives emotional inspiration, and Ni gives technical/structural inspiration. These really are the sparks that get it started. Then Se will help you express it to others while you're playing. So something like Fi/Se/Ni does make a lot of sense.

What I was saying about Si is that I can understand the way the notes sound together and feel together. That Fi and Ni help begin the music process, and that Se helps finish the process, but in the middle Si can help you understand what's going on.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

We've had a lot of discussion about what the Sensing factor is (S vs. N), but we haven't had much discussion at all about the specific Si function (Introverted Sensing). We often hear that it is "memory of details" or something similar. But we all remember details, don't we? So I hope to explore this in more depth.

To varying degrees, but I think the Si dominant person might take it for granted that they remember and relate to details so accurately.

Si is my weakest function of all eight, and I couldn't initially understand it, so I have made a focused effort to understand it better. The ability to process details is impressive to me. I can do it, but it takes at times an unreasonable amount of effort. I am most likely Ni dominant, and at any rate strong iNtuitive and this causes certain problems of becoming disoriented to the concrete world. This is not the case for the Introverted Sensor. The way it feels to lack Si, is to feel completely disoriented in places I have been before. I can't filter and remember the relevant details. If I don't have the big picture worked out in my mind, I cannot find my way based on previous experience. My SO has received more than one phone call from me where I am completely lost someplace I have been before, and he looked up a map and helps me navigate. I do have a friend with more Si than me who faced the same issue of disorientation when driving, so it is hard to say if it relates to Si, but as far as I know it could.

When it comes to remembering the details in my schedule, there is a saturation point that I live in fear of reaching. I will make the lists in hopes of remembering, but my mind will randomly dismiss something that could be critically important. It makes the requirement of remembering so many details to be a source of deep anxiety. The Si person takes some of this remembering for granted. I know Si dominants who are excellent at accounting, editing, and transcription because they will not overlook any small detail. They see it all. I've had likely Si dominant people edit my work and I am always amazed at how easily I overlook a sharp or a flat. I know they can go through the piece and find every discrepancy.

The sensing I do have tends towards the extroverted sort. Because of this a given experience is taken in like a child who has never experienced it before. I have few preconceived notions about how something should taste, feel, look, or sound. From what I understand the Introverted Sensor has strong associations with concrete experience. This might have some relationship to a type of nostalgia. Having a certain dish at Thanksgiving has great significance. Recreating experiences through the senses is an important drive. I think there is a natural inclination towards accuracy, consistency, and recreation associated with Si which can be applied to most everything including sensory experience, information, and emotion.

 

[Cimarron]

The sensing I do have tends towards the extroverted sort. Because of this a given experience is taken in like a child who has never experienced it before. I have few preconceived notions about how something should taste, feel, look, or sound. From what I understand the Introverted Sensor has strong associations with concrete experience. This might have some relationship to a type of nostalgia. Having a certain dish at Thanksgiving has great significance. Recreating experiences through the senses is an important drive. I think there is a natural inclination towards accuracy, consistency, and recreation associated with Si which can be applied to most everything including sensory experience, information, and emotion.

Thanks, this part made sense to me.

And it's not like I always remember every detail, though as you said, I'm good at picking through things to find the details. A few factors that I think affected the former are:
1. For anybody, you're more likely to remember the stuff in which you have an interest.
2. I think, around high-school age, I started to discourage myself from remembering things in detail. Teachers started to discourage it, either implicitly or explicitly, so I took that as a lesson to learn. So I ended up holding back my Si a little, it seems.
3. Maybe I am taking it for granted. You can't tell for sure what it's like to be in someone else's mind.

 

[raz]

Try having an ENFP English teacher while having a dominant Si. Every day is...interesting. I remember everything she says, and hold it to her. I'm having to teach myself that you can't do that with every teacher because of type.

Her: "Yeah, your paper is 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 pages"
Me: "Wait, you said 7 to 9!"

I still remember my Half-life CD key even though I haven't installed the game for 5-6 years. Heh.

 

[Jack Flak]

Try having an ENFP English teacher while having a dominant Si.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean! My Si goes nuts around ENFPs, I start remembering all kinds of stupid crap.