Hypotheses on self-dislike and type

[Eric B]

I believe that if we were to conduct a poll of a large sample size on people who have gone through a self-discovery process of their MBTI type, that the highest incidence of the number of people who dislike themselves or wanted to be/have a different personality would be highest in the INPs, followed closely by ISFs.

In general, I believe that informative types (SFs, NPs) will have higher incidence of self-dislike and desire for a different personality than directive types (STs, NJs). Also, the incidence of this preference will be higher in general for Introverts than Extroverts.

Anybody know of studies related to these hypotheses?

Any thoughts in general about these hypotheses?

I think it might be more along the lines of introversion and extroversion. Directive vs informative will actually determine people's like or dislike of others; hence responding to them either directively or informatively.

I can give you my own informal study in observing the driving needs in the standard temperament matrix:

Temperament for Dummies
(Keep in mind, that I'm using the five temperament system, where the interaction styles are known by the original Galen "humor" names, "Informative" is known as "responsive" or "relationship oriented", and "directive" is known as "task-oriented", and the new temperament Supine is Introverted/Responsive, while Phlegmatic is now moderate in both scales. For the sake of comparison, you can just merge those two temperaments back together; both fitting the ISF/INP interaction style. Also, Melancholy=IST/INJ, Choleric=EST/ENJ and Sanguine=ESF/ENP. The Keirseyan temperament groupings SJ/SP/NF/NT also loosely correspond, with cooperative/pragmatic as expressiveness, and structure/motive as responsiveness, so those can be factored in people's self or others image as well).
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Introversion itself seems to be energized by fear of rejection (or criticism and feelings of inadequacy), which is a common feature of the introverted temperaments [in the APS descriptions]. How a this leads a person to respond to people (wanting or not wanting to be approached by others) is determined by the driving need of the task/relationship scale.
Extroversion seems to be energized by a need for attention (or recognition of adequacy). What the person does with this as he approaches people (relate to or use them) again depends on task/relationship.
Relationship-oriented behavior is energized by the need for acceptance (or recognition of worth). How they try to gain this acceptance (make the first move towards others or wish others would make the first move) is determined by E/I.
Task-oriented behavior is energized by distrust of others (the way others do things, etc). What the person does with this distrust (fear or dominate others) is determined by E/I.

So fear of rejection plus distrust of others equals the introverted-task oriented rejection of others first and fear of the unknown. (Melancholy)
The fear of rejection plus the need for acceptance equals the introverted-relationship oriented shyness, and desire to serve others. (Supine)
The need of attention plus the need of acceptance causes one to be extroverted and relationship oriented, and accept and charm everyone and be the life of the party (and still maintain a fear of rejection, but unlike the introverts, this is not the primary drive). (Sanguine)
The need for attention plus the distrust of others causes one to be extroverted and task oriented, and be outgoing to only use others for his own achievements. (Choleric)

So "self-image", and "others-image" are also involved. Introverts, from the descriptions, tend to have low self-esteem. They doubt their worth, either as a person (Inclusion/Affection), or in their capabilities or adequacy (Control). Hence, they are afraid to express, fearing their inadequacy will be revealed. Extroverts tend to have a higher self-image. They have the confidence to charm or use people (I/A), or lead and control them (C), so they freely express to them with no problem. They believe they have the adequacy; they just want others to recognize it.
Task-oriented people will have a lower image of others. They do not trust them, or value them; either who they are (I/A), or what they do (C). So they will not want interaction from others. Relationship-oriented people will value others, and hence want them for who they are, and to gain acceptance from them for their own worth (I/A), or will depend on them in some way in what they do (C).
Hence, the Melancholy tends not to like himself OR others, and thus rejects others figuring they reject him anyway; and likes solitude to immerse himself in his own world of thinking and tasks, or at least his own sphere of control (family, etc). The Choleric does like himself, and people are not liked as people, but as "objects", as APS describes it. So he will only deal with them according to his own terms. The Sanguine likes himself and likes others, and hence is very involved with people for both their own and his own sake. Liking who people are does give him a bit of vulnerability that the Choleric does not have, so the Sanguine has a fear of rejection similar to the introverts. His self esteem can crash if rejected. However, he will have more of a confidence to keep trying to win others acceptance and recognition. So he will bounce or "swing" back to his expressive, confident self rather quickly. The Supine is described as seeing worth in everyone else, but not himself. So he tries to serve others to gain acceptance. He has doubly the fear of others, being both introverted (fear of exposed inadequacy and hence, rejection or criticism), and needing people's acceptance (which makes one vulnerable to them) on top of it! The Phlegmatics, again, can just take people or leave them.

The familiar concept of "I'M OK; YOU'RE OK" (the expression being the example of the most "healthy" attitude) can thus be paired with the five temperaments:
Sanguine: "I'm OK; You're OK"
Melancholy: "I'm NOT OK; You're NOT OK"
Choleric: "I'm OK; You're NOT OK"
Supine: You're OK; I'm NOT OK
Phlegmatic: "I'm whatever; you're whatever"

All of this would make fear, vs. need of attention, and distrust vs. need of acceptance the "root of personality". These often are described as the basis of much of human behavior. So it would make sense that they would be the real root of temperament. These could be further summed up as "[Self]-Confidence" and "[others] reliance". The person with self confidence will believe in his worth and express to others to gain recognition of it. The person with less self-confidence will fear failure and rejection of some sort, and thus express less. The person who relies on others will stake his worth on others in some way. The person who does not rely on others will be independent, and basically see others as intruding on their space.

 

[Lady_X]

wow that's very interesting...thanks eric
and completely accurate for me as a sanguine

 

[proteanmix]

Extraverts simply externalize their unhappiness and project it onto other people as the cause.

Yea I think his point still stands. Extraverts have a nasty habit of projecting their self dislike and opinions onto others when thing get a little too negative.

That's curious because we seem to have a forum full of introverts projecting their self-dislike onto extroverts.

According to Jung, an extrovert projects their most vile thoughts towards themselves and introverts project the worst outside of themselves.

Was that really me? by Naomi Quenck goes into this in detail and how our inferior function (introverted for extroverts and extroverted for introverts) can hijack our psyche for extended periods of time. I wonder if some of personality problems people describe here are the results of an tertiary and inferior function enslaving the dominant functions obscuring real type. People can live like this for years, it's not just a momentary eclipse.

Good post, Eric! Is that your website?

 

[FDG]

ISF, INT, EST, ENF = self dislike
ENT, ESF, INF, IST = self like

 

[Lady_X]

^^ disagree

caring what others think of you...doesn't mean you have the inclination towards self dislike...imo

 

[Simplexity]

That's curious because we seem to have a forum full of introverts projecting their self-dislike onto extroverts.

According to Jung, an extrovert projects their most vile thoughts towards themselves and introverts project the worst outside of themselves.

Was that really me? by Naomi Quenck goes into this in detail and how our inferior function (introverted for extroverts and extroverted for introverts) can hijack our psyche for extended periods of time. I wonder if some of personality problems people describe here are the results of an tertiary and inferior function enslaving the dominant functions obscuring real type. People can live like this for years, it's not just a momentary eclipse.

Good post, Eric! Is that your website?

I think it's a matter of degrees to some extent. Introverts generally don't have as great an ability with expressing themselves emotionally as well as extroverts. Most notably in the sense of consistency. Maturity as I'm sure you alluded to somewhere there in your post is also another factor. I think it works on somewhat of a curve.

At first introverts if they're somewhat mature will try and internalize these things and detach from others. Extroverts are more likely to try and seek out others to nip it in the bud and try and override their discomfort. I think what Synarch was trying to convey was more along the lines of conscious decision making.

When it's more raw and intense I'm sure introverts would be somewhat deadlier in terms of projection, and extroverts would turn around and be more introspective and harsh. Which the second part of your post did a good job of explaining.

 

[Anja]

A thought - could those with less common personalities be more prone to self-dislike? They would certainly be receiving more messages that there was somethin "wrong" with them.

 

[Simplexity]

A thought - could those with less common personalities be more prone to self-dislike? They would certainly be receiving more messages that there was somethin "wrong" with them.

Definitely, but the same reasons could cause them to go on a more narcissistic bent. I've alternated between both ends pretty frequently. I would venture to say that I gravitate more towards the latter (in a healthy manner, still likable).

 

[Lady_X]

^^ that's interesting too anja
and yeah...i think spending too much time with people completely different then you...people who are critical of you for not being like them...could certainly diminish your self concept
i'm in that situation quite frequently...and it leaves me feeling misunderstood...not really unhappy with myself...due to my positive outlook i guess...but i could see how that could be felt by someone more comfortable with negative emotions.

 

[proteanmix]

I think it's a matter of degrees to some extent. Introverts generally don't have as great an ability with expressing themselves emotionally as well as extroverts. Most notably in the sense of consistency. Maturity as I'm sure you alluded to somewhere there in your post is also another factor. I think it works on somewhat of a curve.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Some extroverts aren't comfortable expressing themselves emotionally either. Do you mean being emotionally effusive or revealing how they feel? Do you group being emotionally expressive as a sign of extroversion?

 

[Eric B]

That's curious because we seem to have a forum full of introverts projecting their self-dislike onto extroverts.

According to Jung, an extrovert projects their most vile thoughts towards themselves and introverts project the worst outside of themselves.

Was that really me? by Naomi Quenck goes into this in detail and how our inferior function (introverted for extroverts and extroverted for introverts) can hijack our psyche for extended periods of time. I wonder if some of personality problems people describe here are the results of an tertiary and inferior function enslaving the dominant functions obscuring real type. People can live like this for years, it's not just a momentary eclipse.

Good post, Eric! Is that your website?

Yes.
Also, in light of what you just said here; it should aos be pointed out that in this system, relationship oriented is also considered "responding as an extrovert", and task-oriented is "responding as an introvert" (normal I/E is what we "express" as).

 

[Mondo]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Some extroverts aren't comfortable expressing themselves emotionally either. Do you mean being emotionally effusive or revealing how they feel? Do you group being emotionally expressive as a sign of extroversion?

I agree, emotional expressiveness isn't necessarily a given for extraverts.
I would think this is more so of a Feeling/Thinking thing.
I know of INFJs and ISFJs who will let their emotions show with ease.
I think it's more of an Fe thing than an Extravert thing.

I would say that Te-dominants (especially those Machiavellianesque ENTJs) will never tell you how they are feeling.
A lot of Extraverts (possibly including myself) will avoid talking about intimate topics or expressing emotions when interacting with people- instead, they prefer to talk about topics related to business or things which stimulate the mind rather than the heart.

 

[mlittrell]

as usual im going to push that self-dislike in types is spread across all of the types somewhat easily. i would say that environment would have quite an effect also on whether the person likes or dislikes themselves. if someone grows up in an environment where their personality is looked down on or they feel different, then i could see them not liking who they are. ok so that is me being idealistic. in an "un-idealistic" world, the real world, i would immediately say that ESTJs would LIKE their personality because it is somewhat the social norm. on the other end of the spectrum you have the INFP who many times is looked at as being socially inept and, well, weird. so really you could probably figure out which type is most unhappy about their type by looking at which types are rarest. even then, i would venture to say that it is still probably pretty evenly distributed among introverts and possibly some ENXPs. really i would say (select) intuitives in general, whether introverted or not.

 

[Numbers]

I consciously try and mask my emotions to the point where some people think i'm pretty cold. I would never cry in public and am just pretty emotionally unexpressive in general. Maybe it's because i'm a guy and it has something to do with my enviroment or something, I don't really know.

I like who I am in general and probably wouldn't change it if I could. I was hellaciously angsty as a teenager though and that took a long time to grow out of (Not to say angsty adults are immature, just that it was my path to take).

If I had to trade I would probably be a ENFP. They usually seem so spontaneous, carefree and fun - yet they are still abstract. I envy that.

 

[Mondo]

Another point- to take things somewhat off the perspective of the brooding introvert- an extravert can be very self-disliking if he or she is hedonistic in nature. That person cannot stand thinking about or being with him or herself so he or she engages in self-destructive behaviors because that is what they think is the only path to happiness.

It is this principle which creates alcoholics and drug addicts.

 

[Simplexity]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Some extroverts aren't comfortable expressing themselves emotionally either. Do you mean being emotionally effusive or revealing how they feel? Do you group being emotionally expressive as a sign of extroversion?

I think in this case (self hate) the mind set and mentality is warped, so I would assume that would alter things somewhat. If we are talking about projection I would assume that extroverts would more likely be consciously aware of their effects externally and would try and resolve them in that manner.

Would you not retreat to your most comfortable function in that case to try and resolve the manner?

Mind you, I should have clarified I was initially talking about ENFPs and INTPs. I think someone already mentioned how much T or F as your dominant extroverted function (or overall) could alter things. After a certain point your weaker functions get called into play and that is where you see some of the more raw charged emotions that are the most evident and telling.

I guess the thing I was trying to get at was conscious v unconscious projection.

 

[Xander]

Ygolo,
Am I correct in thinking that NPs would be prone to self-disliking because they can see potential for them to be better, missed opportunities or potential within the webs of probability and that SFs would be prone to similar because they believe they should be better somehow?

Is that a correct interpretation of what you're getting at?

 

[ygolo]

Ygolo,
Am I correct in thinking that NPs would be prone to self-disliking because they can see potential for them to be better, missed opportunities or potential within the webs of probability and that SFs would be prone to similar because they believe they should be better somehow?

Is that a correct interpretation of what you're getting at?

That was the thinking behind the hypotheses. I was also thinking that extroversion (even in those who are introverts) leads to validation of a persons thoughts, feelings, reactions, or whatever, which in turn leads more self-like. There was some study saying that, but I don't remember where that was.

 

[Xander]

That was the thinking behind the hypotheses. I was also thinking that extroversion (even in those who are introverts) leads to validation of a persons thoughts, feelings, reactions, or whatever, which in turn leads more self-like. There was some study saying that, but I don't remember where that was.

Odd. I would have thought that I and E would make little difference as each has it's own source of validation and vunerability to self doubt.

 

[Ishida]

If I applied that model to myself, I'd be supine sometimes and phlegmatic at other times. I figure INTx would go that way, (or maybe just INTP and INTJs with a low judging preference) having some periods of doubt but otherwise not caring.