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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] TPs, do you agree with TJs about Ti/Te?

KarmaButterfly

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I've been seeing this pattern of TJ typology bloggers (who are now a majority) trying to explain the differences between Te and Ti. Because the very few TPs bloggers who are still into MBTI only post memes I want to ask:

Here are Te vs Ti posts:

TJs vs TPs and getting onto college

TJs vs TPs and problem solving

TJs vs TPs and general thinking attitude

Do you recognize yourself in the Ti examples provided?

I want to know weather their scenarios are accurate or biased towards their own judging function.
 

Eric B

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Wow; that Mr ENTJ is very good! It's a bit slanted in favor of Te (not really showing any drawbacks for that perspective; example; how the Te perspective is what generally dismisses typology altogether, even though he's using it), but then this nails the different viewpoints!
 

Obfuscate

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Let’s say you were to ask this question: “How does one become a management consultant at the best consulting firm in the world, McKinsey and Co.?”

Ti method (logical but false): “To successfully be accepted into the best consulting firm in the world, McKinsey and Co., I should first and foremost major in a relevant subject like business or economics, have exceptional grades in my classes, and develop strong skills in public speaking, problem solving, presentation, and preparation because that’s what management consultants need to succeed. If I do well in those areas, I should be a competitive candidate.”
Te method (illogical but true): “To successfully be accepted into the best consulting firm in the world, McKinsey and Co., I should first and foremost research which target schools they recruit from. The major I select and classes that I take have less relevance than the university I attend because without being in the right place, McKinsey won’t even consider me as a candidate. Next, I should excel in academics and network with alums and McKinsey professionals. If I do well in those areas, I should be a competitive candidate.”

this is a great example of te assigning a false narrative to the process of ti... ti would consider the things on both lists and add to them... while i think i would be extremely unlikely to care so much about what particular company i worked for, i think if i did have such an arbitrary goal i would want to be a lot more detailed in my thinking and research than either example is... i also think that i would be annoyed by needing to jump through the hoops of networking rather than being unaware and dismissive of it's value... by the time i was done thinking it out, i would probably deem it to be a lot of work for something that was essentially impossible to assure success in... that might mean i only addressed the problems on the ti list, aside from perhaps attending a school that often resulted in hires in the appropriate field... even more likely, i would loose all interest in that field part way through my education (if not sooner) and want to switch majors... once i know that i Can build competency in a subject, i see little reason to continue unless it is interesting... consulting sounds like pretty dull work with lots of repetitive and mindless paperwork... i don't think most ti users are much drawn to areas where they have to engage their brain halfway like that... it is better to be able to fully engage in ti or to do something so brainless that your mind can wander while you work...
 

Maou

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Ti users represent!
giphy.gif
 

Totenkindly

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Yes, it is clear that the writer(s) value Te over Ti, simply from how they talk about it. I feel like I am a bit more fair in trying to respect Te, but I know it's just the way Te folks talk based on my experience; and I think they get the gist of things right.

Is it representative? I think it's (ironically) a bit too generalized, for a type that claims to be wed to facts. I mean, I am clearly Ti and my Te was typically one of my bottom three functions. I have trouble remembering what I was like before I had to deal with the real world, but at this stage despite having Ti preferences I certainly take specifics into account and tie it to real life realities, rather than trying to survive in pure logic. Does that mean I have absorbed Te principles along the way? Or am I still generally Ti? Or is it just about being a person who isn't insane, who actually tries to live in reality and pay attention to the things they need to in order to accomplish her goals?

Put another way, yes, I am very "process based" in how I look at things and personally care more about process than even outcome... but it doesn't mean I expect the process to give me the outcome I want if reality works differently. What works in principle (and what SHOULD work) doesn't always line up with reality; the example of getting into a particular university program was a fine example. From early in life I was slapped around by the realities of my existence -- issues in my family, issues over my identity -- I did not have the luxury of pretending an ideal logical process governed everything based on the chaos in my life, and I had to grapple with how things could be expected to turn our realistically regardless of my own rational ideals of what "should be" if I simply followed the right process. I feel like I got over all that pretty early in most ways, although I still remember doing that kind of thing in my teens and early 20's with external organizations, developing strategies of "what SHOULD work" with them and then being really pissed off when they did not function that way... yet I had no control over that, I either had to jump the hoops or lose.

So now even if I do adhere to a "best process" about something, I also accept it might not get me what I hope because the concrete world operates in other ways. Pretty much if you CARE about the outcome of something (and not just process), you have to invest time and energy learning the specific tangibles of it, not just operate from a high-concept logical process.

I think the most successful people operate from both sets of principles. They have an awareness of a consistent trustworthy process by which to do things, to keep them on track. Meanwhile, they are actually paying attention to the harsh realities and demands of the concrete entities around them, so they can channel/apply the process appropriately and even navigate the exceptions to it. So I would develop these general processes in terms of what logically would follow what, in order to have a pathway forward towards my goal -- but each of those steps sometimes had realistic quirks I had to navigate or compensate for.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The flip side of this though is that Te doms seem much more prone to not questioning things if they come from a source deemed respectable.

A ti dom is much more likely to go... I don't care what institution is saying that, it doesn't really make any sense. Te doms will more often go "I think that source is respectable, therefore it must be true."

In this way, Te-doms can get out of touch with reality as well, given the simple fact that people have different motivations for saying things, and truth isn't always one of them. Maybe the statement is motivated by trying to ward off threats to their authority, or maybe to draw ratings, or maybe to preserve a set of assumptions about the world. It would be erroneous to assume that statements are always made from a perspective of sharing knowledge and also that these folks, by virtue of their position, have more knowledge. There are a lot of places where the chain could fall apart
So this is a drawback to Te.. the cold fact that doesn't match up with the precious logical framework could in fact be utter bullshit. Pointing out that the person who said the "cold fact" is high-ranking is not a sufficient rebuttal to my mind, and I could actually point to examples bolstering why this is so. In this way the internal logic can actually be better at spotting truth in many instances.

As an extension of this, there is a pernicious way of thinking prevalent that presents itself as pragmatism but when you dig deep enough there are a lot of assumptions about the way the world works from "conventional wisdom" that appear to be increasingly at odds with reality. Pointing out the gap between the conventional wisdom and reality usually just generates anger, which comes off to me as a resistance to accepting reality. Supporting the status quo can look pragmatism, but let's put it this way: Is it pragmatic to keep driving a car that is always breaking down and repairs keep costing more and more when you have the money to buy a new one? Sometimes the status quo means continuing to do things that are not working. There's a false assumption at play that the status quo is the best way of doing things because if there were a better way, they would be done differently. But conditions change.... that car might have worked like a dream when you first bought it. That doesn't mean you should still be driving it 28 years later. To me it looks almost as though as the Te-doms are the ones who would want to keep driving the car, because the mechanic told them there would never be any more problems with the car after the last repairs, which cost more than the car did when they first bought it. It couldn't be possible that the mechanic is trying to cheat them or doesn't know what he's talking about. In that situation, getting a new car would be a radical change, but it would probably be the pragmatic choice. Making small improvements in the form of costly repairs is not actually pragmatic.
 

Eric B

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I think it's (ironically) a bit too generalized, for a type that claims to be wed to facts..
That's because "facts" can be either S or T. T is judging facts, and S is perceiving them. (Which is why ST types are overall the most 'fact'-demanding). But this writer is an N, and so in that regard, will be less factual; hence, "generalizations". Se might aid them with current facts, but Ni data still comes first.
 
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Ti and Te in finding a head cover

Some time ago still this year, my mother head cover that was being dried, fell down blown away by the wind to the ground floor from the balcony of second floor where we lived. My father firstly noticed it and told me and instructed me to search for it. I went down and looked for it. But I didn't find the head cover, and I came back with an empty hand. Hearing that My sister insisted that the head cover was there as she said. We argued to each other. I said to her if she indeed knew, Could she have shown me where the exact location was. I said if she was sure that the head cover was on the ground floor, then why didn't she herself go down and take it. But she instructed me to go down again to look for it . She herself refused to go down. I questioned How could have she known it was there, while she didn't go down and check it herself like I did. I had been on the ground floor but did not find it. She went silent. The head cover is never found.
Ti relies on subjective reason. she may have reasonably thought that that the head cover had to be on the ground floor since it was fallen, but without inspecting it first. She sounded convinced although she never saw for herself the head cover. She only relied on the factual information given: a head cover fell and think reasonably that it must have been there on the ground floor. No wonder she was not able to tell where the head cover exact location was
She thinks and reaches conclusion without checking physically the head cover while I went down and checked it and only then reported.
 
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Totenkindly

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Honestly, that sounds more like laziness on the part of your sister rather than being tied to a specific function.
 

Meltar85

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I've been seeing this pattern of TJ typology bloggers (who are now a majority) trying to explain the differences between Te and Ti. Because the very few TPs bloggers who are still into MBTI only post memes I want to ask:

Here are Te vs Ti posts:

TJs vs TPs and getting onto college

TJs vs TPs and problem solving
TJs vs TPs and general thinking attitude

Do you recognize yourself in the Ti examples provided?

I want to know weather their scenarios are accurate or biased towards their own judging function.
I disagree in part and agree in part with Mr. ENTJ's distinctions between Te and Ti when it comes to "subjective" and "objective" logic. Ti users are just as likely to take in objective data as Te users are. In that sense, Ti and Te are both objective. I think the difference comes in how they determine the reliability or truthfulness of the data. The Te user relies on the qualifications of the source, and the consensus, of the data. Qualifications (title, experience, etc) and quantity lead to the logic. The Ti user will consider the same data that the Te relied on but then run it through their internal framework of what makes logical sense. The qualifications and consensus are just more data points and not indicators of credibility. If what makes logical sense to the Ti user doesn't align with the experts or consensus, so be it. So, for Te, facts (quality, quantity) trump logic. For Ti, logic trumps facts.
 
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