who I am

[runvardh]

(Se) -- 38
(Si) .-- 23.6
(Ne) -- 17.7
(Ni) .-- 40.9
(Te) -- 42.1
(Ti) .-- 28.8
(Fe) -- 13.4
(Fi) .-- 35.9

Te Ni Se Fi (Ti Si Ne Fe)

Interesting.

yeah, that would normaly indicate ENTJ wrather than INTJ...

 

[wildcat]

So we have all the INs (a triple fps) and one IS (fj). Very nice.
All strikingly interesting patterns.

Let us find the model.
Let the pattern shape itself. It is not good to meddle.

What did we find in the patterns? Semi opposites and opposites. They were not perfectly in order, as should be expected. But the endeavour is evident.
The pattern always tries to find itself. And with different people the pattern is of a different order. Completely of different order? No. They are all a part of the same pattern. They are subpatterns, and their number is strictly limited.

Semi opposites linked in a system of opposition.

Let us start with INFP (for an evident reason).

 

[wildcat]

We are on the lookout for opposites and semi opposites.

Table a

INFP INTP INTJ

ISFP ISTP ISTJ

ESFP ESTP ESTJ

 

[wildcat]

This is an INFP table.
You see the ISTP in the middle? The semi opposite of two pairs of opposites and of another two pairs of semi opposites?

This is a blind man game. You see, we left something out to make a valid point.

What is the place of the ISTP in the order of function units? ISTP is Si Te.
There are four function units in a continuum of 8 functions. But here we have only three in an eightfold package.

We start with INFP=the standpoint of INFP. We cross the field and we move directly towards ESTJ which is the opposite type.
We find Ti Se in the middle.

Is Ti Se the second or the third function unit from the standpoint of Fi Ne (=INFP)? Let us not answer yet.

The opposite type ESTJ provides the answer. When the ESTJ crosses the field moving directly toward the opposite type INFP, does it find Ti Se as the second or third function unit?
Wrong question. Ti Se is not there any more.

Now you claim: But I see it standing there in the middle!
No. You see nothing.

 

[wildcat]

Say we step on a train in Bremen. We sit down on the first carriage on the right side of the aisle. The train has a placard on it. The placard reads A. The first stop is in Hamburg. The second stop is in Luebeck. We look keenly as we arrive in Travemunde.

In Travemunde we stand on the platform and see a chap turn the placard. Now it reads B. We go back into the train. We sit down on the first carriage on the right side of the aisle. The train starts. We look out of the window and see an unknown Travemunde. The second station (first stop) of the train B is the third station (second stop) of the train A.

 

[wildcat]

But MBTI is a lot more complicated than that. In the table a we have eight trains. It is only one table of many. And a number of vanishing stations in between. And then we have a number of new stations. The new stations curiously resemble the vanished stations.

We are on the lookout for opposites and semi opposites.

Table a

Fi Ne Ti Ne Ni Te

Fi Se Ti Se Si Te

Se Fi Se Ti ESTJ

 

[wildcat]

Here we see that Ti Se is the third function unit= 5th and 6th function respectively. Of INFP (Fi Ne).
Where is the second function unit? An interesting question no doubt.

It seems someone took it away.
Or maybe not.

Even if we do not see it we do have the third unit: hence we have the second. Eight tracks is 9 stations.
We have also a multiple of other ways to find the second unit if we bother to look at the table a as a unity.

What comes around goes around. A used parable, but an applicable one.
The Sun sets also in the Pacific.
Greenwich is but an agreement.
The clock never stops.

What do we find beyond the pale?

We are not there yet. The ESTJ crosses the field to reach INFP /Fi Ne.
Fi Ne?
But this is the table a.

Does the onlooker affect the thing looked upon?

We are conditioned. Our culture teaches us to believe in the Greenwich doctrine, as it teaches us to see and "right" from left to right.

The opposite direction is not the opposite of the opposite direction.
What turns around, turns around by itself.
We do not need to push it.
We do not need to do a thing about anything.

What takes place when we stop the clock? We see the other clock.
The illusion is not the other clock.
The illusion is the idea that the clock stops.
It does not stop. We have stopped.

The definition of zero is not a void.





3rd=Ti Se=2nd=Ni Fe.

 

[htb]

Wildcat, you need to cut back on the fortune cookies.

Edit: Allow your analysis some extrusion. Just a little.

 

[wildcat]

E deals with the environment.
I is hidden.

In each function unit.

The succesion of the unit has no relevance.

Is the definition of the place the of zero objective?

No.

 

[wildcat]

Wildcat, you need to cut back on the fortune cookies.

Edit: Allow your analysis some extrusion. Just a little.

Extrusion is not about the object.
It is about the subject.

 

[htb]

Extrusion is not about the object.
It is about the subject.

Oh, now. Use the subject as a die to adduction's sheet metal.

 

[wildcat]

Oh, now. Use the subject as a die to adduction's sheet metal.

An uneven match.

 

[wildcat]

I am quite irritated by the general function order discussion.
The object of irritation is not the people who have won acclaim in a circle of friends.
Not the authorities in the discussion.

I do not need to agree with the authors in everything.
I do give credit to their intelligence, knowledge and effort.

Unfortunately authority of any kind inevitably becomes a vehicle of corruption.

The agent of corruption is not the author.
The agent of corruption is the disciple.

The paradox is that there is no space between the object and the subject.
The cause is the effect.

 

[wildcat]

An illustration about the mechanics of cause and effect.
The economists call space inflation.

What was the inflation rate in the US before the crash of 29?

A relevant question:
Is inflation inside or outside of matter?

Hence what is the position of the number nine to zero?

 

[wildcat]

Would an ESTJ or an ESFJ make a good judge?
No.
Why?

A good judge has to be field independent.
What is the field?

There was in this forum a thread about handwriting.
I read it through and then I read what the Swedish wikipedia says about the subject.
There was not many lines there. The thing amounted to a flat statement that the study of handwriting is superstition and has no validity whatsoever. No discussion.

That reminds me of my teachers at high school and the university. No discussion. About anything.

One of the first things you can detect in a handwriting of an individual is field independence.

I read in the thread that the writing of a left handed individual tilts to the left. Not if the left hander is field independent. Any more than the right hander tilts to the right if he/she is field independent.
No tilt.

Other things you can quickly detect in a handwriting is the level of control and energy and the interplay of control and energy. You can discover the form level and the rythm.
All these things are interconnected.

If you have a low energy and a low control but they are about in a balance you have a good rythm.
If you have a weak energy and a slightly weaker control your handwriting has a soft quality and you have a good rythm.
If you have a weak control and a slightly weaker level of energy your handwriting is remarkably conscious and slow but firm.

If you have a high energy and a high level of control but they are about in a balance you have a good rythm.

If you have a low energy and a way lower level of control your handwriting disintegrates. It does not have a rythm.
If you have a low control and a way lower level of energy your handwriting is slow, ponderous, but stays in line. There is a forced quality of regularity.

Etc..

For example, there are different kinds of looseness or stiffness depending on the variety.

Of the stiff variety there is the formal, the constrained, the ceremonious, the punctilious, the prim, the starch, the stilted, the stately, the chilling, the frigid type.

Or there is the austere, the dogmatic, the uncompromising, the inexorable type.

Or there is the inelegant, the cramped, the harsh, the crude, the graceless, the abrupt type.

And then there is the sobriety. Temperance, abstinence, calmness.

This has nothing to do with the individual study of characters. I have no estimation of the latter study. I am ignorant of it.

When does introversion bring about individual evaluation (field independence)?
When it is rational.
It is called reflection.

 

[Xander]

Wildcat,

If the person is not the system then how is the system the person? It isn't and perhaps shouldn't ever be. Perhaps we should stick to our generalised stereotypes because past that point the models & tables become of less use.

Plus where do you incorporate anything except cognitive wiring into this? I am not just my cognitive wiring.... I think....

 

[wildcat]

Wildcat,

If the person is not the system then how is the system the person? It isn't and perhaps shouldn't ever be. Perhaps we should stick to our generalised stereotypes because past that point the models & tables become of less use.

Plus where do you incorporate anything except cognitive wiring into this? I am not just my cognitive wiring.... I think....

What is a map?

AB = BA. A map.
Wrong.

AB = AB.
Another map.
A repetition.

Vice versa comes in handy?
No.

What comes in handy?

 

[Xander]

What is a map?

AB = BA. A map.
Wrong.

AB = AB.
Another map.
A repetition.

Vice versa comes in handy?
No.

What comes in handy?

Wha?

What's a map got to do with it? I'm lost.

All I was saying was that even if you can plot the function order for each type with precision, you'll be no further forward than if you hadn't bothered. It means less the further you get away from the subject.

What is handy would be some kinda typing which can be applied with clarity but in helpful ways. I'm coming to think that beyond the whole NT/ ST/ NF/ SF classifications the rest if just detail and fairly unnecessary for the layman anyway.

 

[wildcat]

Wha?

What's a map got to do with it? I'm lost.

All I was saying was that even if you can plot the function order for each type with precision, you'll be no further forward than if you hadn't bothered. It means less the further you get away from the subject.

What is handy would be some kinda typing which can be applied with clarity but in helpful ways. I'm coming to think that beyond the whole NT/ ST/ NF/ SF classifications the rest if just detail and fairly unnecessary for the layman anyway.

Yes.
The layman thing is perfect.

 

[Xander]

Yes.
The layman thing is perfect.

That seems to be it's gift and it's curse, unfortunately. Slightly too perfect. It just doesn't properly reflect the duality in people's nature unless you include the shadow but that's complicating things.

Perhaps the current system is the best one? The E/I differentiation seems important to many circumstances and the J/P explains many things too. Perhaps it is just necessary to recognise them as subdivisions and not as strong as the primary four. I believe, in fact, that the MBTI table is layed out as such.. not that you'd notice unless you looked at it with the foreknowledge of such.