who I am

[wildcat]

That seems to be it's gift and it's curse, unfortunately. Slightly too perfect. It just doesn't properly reflect the duality in people's nature unless you include the shadow but that's complicating things.

Perhaps the current system is the best one? The E/I differentiation seems important to many circumstances and the J/P explains many things too. Perhaps it is just necessary to recognise them as subdivisions and not as strong as the primary four. I believe, in fact, that the MBTI table is layed out as such.. not that you'd notice unless you looked at it with the foreknowledge of such.

What are the primary four?

Many people are confused. They ask this question and nobody gives them the answer.
To throw them the MBTI function order (M 16) for each type adds to the confusion.

Are the primary four 1234 or 1278?

Is it both ways? Is unconsciousness the dividing line? How does unconsciousness influence cognitive processes and their order?

Give me the conscious numbers and the unconscious numbers and their interplay in the order and give me the why.

It should be a child's play.

What current system? The Answers.Com?

Why they do not correct the typos in the first place?

First they say that these two functions are you. Then they add two more functions (the tertiary) and they say: Hey, these are also you! And then they remember the end of the line and say: Hey, these are not so much you!


The preference of the consensus is everything. Look at the preference of the consensus in the Cognitive Processes test results.

The idea of the four primary functions is that they are primary. It is as simple as that. If they mean shadow functions which are not in everyday usage they should not be given numbers 3 and 4 in the function order in a linear order of 8 functions. It utterly illogical and foolish and it is against sanity.

Is the idea that there are a) four conscious functions and four unconscious functions and b) four strong functions (=of primary usage of order) and four weak functions (=of secondary usage of order)?

What are these functions and what is their interplay? What is the layout?

Do not hide.

 

[Xander]

The MBTI lists your functions as 1,2,7 & 8 if you are thinking in terms of development. They are listing them as 1st and 2nd concious functions and the second two as the primary and secondary sub functions.

Note that the ISFJ is quite the smartass in humour. Smartass being classic ENTP.

If you doubt this conclusion then consider the INTP Central phenomena. All those Ts gathered in one place. All conceptual people. What happens? Arguments about what is right, the correct definitions and all that stuff. It's rare to find more than a handful acting like INTPs. However the processes they are engaging in are not refined nor are they wielded with skill. The accusation of Emos is quite correct, it has a heavy ESFJ teen atmosphere at times and I believe that this is why.

So the process order is 1,2 & 1,2 on two different scales.

I think.

 

[wildcat]

.. therefore I am.
Thank you Descartes.

A funny way to make a presentation.

I think ...

of 012345678 of volume in a linear order

1 and 2 = strong and conscious.
3 and 4 = strong and unconscious
5 and 6 = weak and conscious
7 and 8 = weak and unconscious.

Yes. This is the order.

The INTP crowd are a bunch of teen agers. They are still developing.
Anyway, some the best people vanished from the place a long time ago.

I wonder what happened to them.

By the way, I think we have to cut down on MBTI. Let us take a third away. They are only a load. I think 12 types will do, or even eight.
What do you think?

 

[Night]

Impressive.

This thread deserves resurrection.


There's more than a slice of brilliance available for the keen of sight.

 

[Haphazard]

Hmm.

I always thought that the functional order didn't have much to do with how much or how well somebody used a function, but how they used it.

Like, you know, it went like this:

1 - Automatic

2- Proactive

3, 4 - Reactive

5 - Distracting

6, 7 - Destructive

8 - Just Plain Baffling

 

[Mermaid]

I'm still pretty new on what the eight processes mean, but I took the test....I came out infp, which seemed pretty unlikely and my Se was really low and I tend to be, if anything, overly aware of colors, sounds, smells... I think if anything that should have been super high so I went back and felt into any answers I thought weren't as right as they could be. The Se came back even lower. Ni was high the first time which I also doubted to be right, but it just came back slightly higher the second time. Hmph.

Some of you have an impressive grasp on this stuff so if anyone has any analysis they wouldn't mind sharing I'd sure appreciate it.... I noticed Night sort of ressurected the thread....



extraverted Sensing (Se) ************* (13.3) unused

introverted Sensing (Si) ************** (33.7) good use

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************* (33.9) good use

introverted Intuiting (N)************ (41.8) excellent use

extraverted Thinking (Te)**************** (22.5) limited use

introverted Thinking (Ti) *************** (26.5) average use

extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************* (33) good use

introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************** (35.7) good use

 

[Didums]

Even the kinds of tests people are linking (about 'excellent use' etc) are about charts and numbers! Whether you get 'excellent use' or 'good use' is only subject to whether you answer 'definitely me' or 'mostly me' more, which I don't think a person is able to correctly choose because your own interpretation may be wrong, you could be exaggerating or diminishing your own traits via this little box of an answer you get, tests are bullcrap. I think the idea of this thread was supposed to be about answering the OP's questions, not putting yourself into an imaginary box.

Who are you?

What is the indifference in an individual basis?

Why and when did you discover you were different?

I am the negation of my known opposites.

I don't get this question. Individuality is a tricky subject. We are all inherently individuals by genetics, nobody has the same sequence of genes, however, we are in essence all the same species as well. The quest for individuality in society is a hoax however, contradictory by nature, so I'd lean in the direction of saying that we arent individuals, just a population of the same species with our differences here and there.

When did I discover I was different than most? Well, I discovered that I was 'wierder' than my peers in middle school, and most recently I discovered that I'm much more of an intellectual than my peers, I've got a couple intellectual friends that I discuss 'the big questions' and 'big topics' with but most of them aren't prone to talk about these things. Why did I discover that I'm different? Well I think it is inevitable, I know that I'm pretty different than most but I'm also pretty similar to some so I still won't consider myself an Individual.

 

[Uytuun]

That reminds me of my teachers at high school and the university. No discussion. About anything.

I advise you to look into the mirror, wildcat.

 

[wildcat]

I'm still pretty new on what the eight processes mean, but I took the test....I came out infp, which seemed pretty unlikely and my Se was really low and I tend to be, if anything, overly aware of colors, sounds, smells... I think if anything that should have been super high so I went back and felt into any answers I thought weren't as right as they could be. The Se came back even lower. Ni was high the first time which I also doubted to be right, but it just came back slightly higher the second time. Hmph.

Some of you have an impressive grasp on this stuff so if anyone has any analysis they wouldn't mind sharing I'd sure appreciate it.... I noticed Night sort of ressurected the thread....



extraverted Sensing (Se) ************* (13.3) unused

introverted Sensing (Si) ************** (33.7) good use

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************* (33.9) good use

introverted Intuiting (N)************ (41.8) excellent use

extraverted Thinking (Te)**************** (22.5) limited use

introverted Thinking (Ti) *************** (26.5) average use

extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************* (33) good use

introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************** (35.7) good use

INFJ

 

[wildcat]

Even the kinds of tests people are linking (about 'excellent use' etc) are about charts and numbers! Whether you get 'excellent use' or 'good use' is only subject to whether you answer 'definitely me' or 'mostly me' more, which I don't think a person is able to correctly choose because your own interpretation may be wrong, you could be exaggerating or diminishing your own traits via this little box of an answer you get, tests are bullcrap. I think the idea of this thread was supposed to be about answering the OP's questions, not putting yourself into an imaginary box.



I am the negation of my known opposites.

I don't get this question. Individuality is a tricky subject. We are all inherently individuals by genetics, nobody has the same sequence of genes, however, we are in essence all the same species as well. The quest for individuality in society is a hoax however, contradictory by nature, so I'd lean in the direction of saying that we arent individuals, just a population of the same species with our differences here and there.

When did I discover I was different than most? Well, I discovered that I was 'wierder' than my peers in middle school, and most recently I discovered that I'm much more of an intellectual than my peers, I've got a couple intellectual friends that I discuss 'the big questions' and 'big topics' with but most of them aren't prone to talk about these things. Why did I discover that I'm different? Well I think it is inevitable, I know that I'm pretty different than most but I'm also pretty similar to some so I still won't consider myself an Individual.

It matters little if your choice based on your interpretation is right or wrong in the mind of others.
MBTI is about your choice. It is an election. It is not meant to be objective in the first place.
Who I think I am is valid. Not who the others think I am.

Individuality does not exist? No, if you do not accept the choice is yours.

The good thing about the MBTI and the CP tests is that you are finally able to judge alone.

Who am I? Who made me?
The others made me?

I am my own creation.
What is at the basis of a specific development?
Choice.
Whose choice?
Whose can it be? Only the subject can choose.

 

[Thursday]

i discovered that i was " different " from telling people what i saw and thought vs their reaction
i would come up with different perspectives, as well as their perspective, but much sooner than they did

as for who i am
i am too powerful and too kind and too loving to be anything else but that

 

[wildcat]

Hmm.

I always thought that the functional order didn't have much to do with how much or how well somebody used a function, but how they used it.

Like, you know, it went like this:

1 - Automatic

2- Proactive

3, 4 - Reactive

5 - Distracting

6, 7 - Destructive

8 - Just Plain Baffling

Hmmm.. Yes.
Why do you choose a specific function?
Because you are good at it?
You are good at it because you choose it.
A choice is an automatic response to environment.

 

[wildcat]

There are two identical twins.
They are different.
Why they are different?
Because they choose to be different.
Why do they choose to be different?
Because they are faced with different challenge.
Why they are faced with different challenge?

What creates the challenge?
The environment.
Who I am?
I am an automatic response to environment.
Do I then choose?
I am chosen.

Does the choice precede I?
It is I.

 

[Thursday]

Does the choice precede I?
It is I.

Right
it always has
its the seeds of compassion and objectivity and wisdom

ironically
you have to have a self to give before you give yourself selflessly

 

[wildcat]

i discovered that i was " different " from telling people what i saw and thought vs their reaction
i would come up with different perspectives, as well as their perspective, but much sooner than they did

as for who i am
i am too powerful and too kind and too loving to be anything else but that

Differentiation of perspective is the basis of understanding.

 

[wildcat]

Right
it always has
its the seeds of compassion and objectivity and wisdom

ironically
you have to have a self to give before you give yourself selflessly

You can only give what you do not have.

 

[Thursday]

Differentiation of perspective is the basis of understanding.

right
but i was and am able to come up with perspectives that are not faithful to my own

i guess thats empathy for you

 

[wildcat]

right
but i was and am able to come up with perspectives that are not faithful to my own

i guess thats empathy for you

There is acceptance and understanding.
There is rejection and understanding.
There is acceptance without understanding.
There is rejection without understanding.

Two kinds of empathy.
Two kinds of lack of empathy.

 

[Thursday]

There is acceptance and understanding.
There is rejection and understanding.
There is acceptance without understanding.
There is rejection without understanding.

Two kinds of empathy.
Two kinds of lack of empathy.

yep

 

[wildcat]

I advise you to look into the mirror, wildcat.

Spieglein Spieglein an der Wand
Wer is der schonste im ganzen Land?

Uytuun ist.