Random MBTI and JCF Thoughts

[rav3n]

Pet peeve. The conflation of F or Feelings functions, and emotions. It's just assumed that there's a relationship even though Jung clearly stated that 'Feeling' is also a rational decision maker.

Emotions and F or Fi/Fe are distinct issues. The reason why there appears to be a significant correlation is because T or Ti/Te are dismissive of emotions since they're not logical, especially Ti since it's logical framework premised. F or Fi/Fe are values oriented so there's no need to be dismissive of emotions.

IMO, this distinction is integral to typing.

 

[Pionart]

No, I do think there is definitely a relationship between Feeling (especially Fi) and emotions. Emotions and values are linked.

When a person smiles, are they not demonstrating emotion, and are they not demonstrating the Feeling function?

When someone speaks about their emotional response to something, are they not drawing on Fi in the majority of cases?

I mention those examples, because they hold true in my own view of typology. Yes Feeling involves emotion. (Not all kinds of emotion, and not just emotion)

 

[rav3n]

No, I do think there is definitely a relationship between Feeling (especially Fi) and emotions. Emotions and values are linked.

When a person smiles, are they not demonstrating emotion, and are they not demonstrating the Feeling function?

When someone speaks about their emotional response to something, are they not drawing on Fi in the majority of cases?

I mention those examples, because they hold true in my own view of typology. Yes Feeling involves emotion. (Not all kinds of emotion, and not just emotion)

You missed my point. Thinkers are dismissive of emotions. Feelers don't dismiss their emotions since their orientation is values focused. If you want to take my conclusion to its maximum, I'm saying that thinkers are somewhat crippled.

 

[Vendrah]

The official MBTI states that it is different:
The Myers & Briggs Foundation - Thinking or Feeling
"Don't confuse Feeling with emotion. Everyone has emotions about the decisions they make. Also do not confuse Thinking with intelligence."

I had found out in my own search (its on my typoc blog) that Big 5 facet emotion did not correlate with any of these cognitive functions in a significant way but had a weak correlation for feeling:
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...ies-stats-studies-possibly-4.html#post3226317

I think there is a connection, but it is indeed not the same.
But I did already knew that for months, its weird, although, I admit that I confuse it sometimes.

 

[Pionart]

You missed my point. Thinkers are dismissive of emotions. Feelers don't dismiss their emotions since their orientation is values focused. If you want to take my conclusion to its maximum, I'm saying that thinkers are somewhat crippled.

And I'm saying that the connection between Feeling and emotion is more than just them not dismissing them. The very core of Feeling overlaps with emotion.

(Oh, and calling one group of types crippled usually implies that the other group(s) is(/are) crippled in a different way)

 

[rav3n]

And I'm saying that the connection between Feeling and emotion is more than just them not dismissing them. The very core of Feeling overlaps with emotion.

If that's the case, I guess we thinkers have no emotions, right?

(Oh, and calling one group of types crippled usually implies that the other group(s) is(/are) crippled in a different way)

Only if you're actively seeking to be offended.

 

[Pionart]

If that's the case, I guess we thinkers have no emotions, right?

Obviously not, because Thinkers have a Feeling function still. In the sense that Feeling overlaps with emotion though, yes Thinkers will tend to be more neutral in that regard.

Only if you're actively seeking to be offended.

All I'm saying is that if Thinkers are crippled for not having strong Feeling use, then Feelers are crippled for not having strong Thinking use. It's just individual differences.

 

[rav3n]

Obviously not, because Thinkers have a Feeling function still. In the sense that Feeling overlaps with emotion though, yes Thinkers will tend to be more neutral in that regard.



All I'm saying is that if Thinkers are crippled for not having strong Feeling use, then Feelers are crippled for not having strong Thinking use. It's just individual differences.

Can you explain why Feelers have problems controlling their emotions if emotions are a component of their Feeling function? One would think that if any function that's a component of conscious mind can easily be controlled and immediately understood, right?

 

[Pionart]

Can you explain why Feelers have problems controlling their emotions if emotions are a component of their Feeling function? One would think that if any function that's a component of conscious mind can easily be controlled and immediately understood, right?

Do Feelers really have a harder time controlling their emotions?

Thinkers have emotions that are generally less strong, and also often react to them by neutralising with the Thinking function. I guess you could consider neutralising something to be controlling it.

Emotions for a Feeler are stronger and more nuanced. They are used with greater effect.

 

[rav3n]

Do Feelers really have a harder time controlling their emotions?

Thinkers have emotions that are generally less strong, and also often react to them by neutralising with the Thinking function. I guess you could consider neutralising something to be controlling it.

Emotions for a Feeler are stronger and more nuanced. They are used with greater effect.

So Feelers can't control their conscious functions?

 

[Pionart]

So Feelers can't control their conscious functions?

You're the one that seems to be saying that?

One of the roles of Fi is to bring the psyche into emotional harmony. It does things to restore balance. Fe uses emotion to move the environment, often in a social sense. That sounds like emotional control to me.

 

[rav3n]

You're the one that seems to be saying that?

One of the roles of Fi is to bring the psyche into emotional harmony. It does things to restore balance. Fe uses emotion to move the environment, often in a social sense. That sounds like emotional control to me.

When a feeler hates someone, since they have super-duper strong emotions, what stops them from harming the other person?

 

[Schrödinger's Name]

When a feeler hates someone, since they have super-duper strong emotions, what stops them from harming the other person?

I ask myself this question too. I blame it on my social awkwardness.

 

[rav3n]

I ask myself this question too. I blame it on my social awkwardness.

lol, objectively speaking, it's not as if the rate of incarceration for feelers is super-duper higher levels than thinkers. According to Jung, both thinking and feeling are rational functions where emotions aren't rational. With this in mind, emotions are distinct from the F and T functions.

 

[Pionart]

When a feeler hates someone, since they have super-duper strong emotions, what stops them from harming the other person?

Moral understanding and self-control, but I don't see what this has to do with anything?

 

[rav3n]

Moral understanding and self-control, but I don't see what this has to do with anything?

You're conflating emotions with Feeling functions because Feelers aren't dismissive of emotions. Every type has emotions where some people, whether thinkers or feelers, have stronger emotions than others. There are people who struggle with mental health problems who experience emotional dysregulation where some are thinkers and others are feelers.

 

[Pionart]

You're conflating emotions with Feeling functions because Feelers aren't dismissive of emotions. Every type has emotions where some people, whether thinkers or feelers, have stronger emotions than others. There are people who struggle with mental health problems who experience emotional dysregulation where some are thinkers and others are feelers.

No, that's not why I'm associating them.

 

[Pionart]

I think you're asking how a Feeler can have a disorder of the emotions if emotions relate to Feeling.

First of all: I said they overlap. Anxiety, for instance, would not necessarily be correlated with type, although specific kinds of anxiety likely would be.

Depression can occur in all types, however Fi is more likely to relate to feeling sadness.


Think of an NTJ. They naturally have high drives and ambitions. Are they in control of what these ambitions are, or whether or not they have them? Not necessarily, but they're good at working towards the visions they have in mind as to what they want to achieve. They know how to make use of these drives and ambitions. They get used to working with them and are more adept at altering them. But at the same time, you could say of some NTJ that they are controlled by their ambitions, rather than being control of their ambitions themself.

You should be able to see the parallel in that as to what I'm saying.

 

[rav3n]

I think you're asking how a Feeler can have a disorder of the emotions if emotions relate to Feeling.

No, that's not what I'm saying or asking. This is your erroneous interpretation.

 

[Pionart]

No, that's not what I'm saying or asking. This is your erroneous interpretation.

Ok then, I really don't know what point you're trying to make then.