miss deceit
Permabanned
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Messages
- 843
- MBTI Type
- ENTJ
- Enneagram
- 3w2
- Instinctual Variant
- so/sx
So I decided to write this up, constructing an argument that takes everything into consideration in order to solidify my type once and for all.
Why I, Talia, am an INTJ/ILI/INTp/Balzac whatever you want to call it
Firstly, we must take a look at quadra values. ILI is a Gamma type, so here are the core aspects of the Gamma Quadra:
Te blocked with Ni
Gamma types take a longer-term view regarding efficiency and profitability, giving lower priority to the short term. Likewise, they tend to aim at the broader benefits of decisions, rather than only at those affecting themselves, giving them an inclination for self-sacrifice.
Gamma types like to talk about where present trends are leading in terms of potentially profitable events and undertakings.
Gamma types tend to give more value to ideas and concepts that are firmly connected to factual information.
Fi blocked with Se
Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance.
These values very much align with my own. I absolutely am one for long term efficiency preferring not to get bogged down in the minor details - very quickly finding relevant information and discarding unneeded information. Profit (better referred to as benefit imo) is important for me, I want to maximize my benefit from situations and am good at finding effective ways to do so. While I can certainly be idealistic, I do prefer concepts that are factually backed up and am likely to cross reference these when explaining a point. I definitely have a vengeful streak when people fuck with me and try to take advantage of me - and it is hard for me to forget what they did to me. I also do place value on personal loyalty and will cut ties if that is broken. It is hard for me to truly believe assholes can become better people as I always make the connection between person and behaviour in my mind.
Now, let’s take a look at the other half of the Gamma values, their unvalued functions:
Fe blocked with Si
Gamma types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive activity or discuss serious topics.
Gamma types reject the idea that it's best to avoid confrontations so as not to spoil the mood of those present, they prefer directness in settling or at least discussing disagreements.
Gamma types have difficulty relating to emotional atmospheres connected to "special dates" such as public holidays.
Ti blocked with Ne
Gamma types do not see much point in deeply analyzing ideas that they see as having little practical application or connection to reality.
Gamma types are more inclined to speculate and discuss possible developments of present circumstances, or how these came about, than to speculate or analyze alternative scenarios or possibilities
I have a tendency to view groups built on fun interactions as shallow, so that part rings true. I get frustrated with people who are conflict-avoidant in order to promote harmony as it just produces passive aggressiveness. I find “special dates†kind of pointless, often shallow. While I do enjoy analysing ideas, I like there to be a reason to it and I like it to be useful as I do not like to waste my time. Speculation of how circumstances can develop is very important to me, although I often end up doing that and not taking any direct action.
Now, the Gamma values fit like a glove which would leave 4 types: LIE, ILI, SEE, ESI. To get into why I am specifically an ILI we need to look at things specific to the type.
Firstly, ILIs are the only Gamma types to have a Dialectic-Algorithmic cognitive style. This style is the most fitting of me due to how quick I am to pick up on and “rat out†contradictions and paradoxes. I naturally see the negatives, what doesn’t fit. Naturally in a debate, I immediately go to what doesn't line up about the opposing argument.
ILIs also have 4D Ni and 1D Se with both being valued which I believe is a good fit for me. I clearly value this axis, but Se force and pressure is something I have a lot of difficulty producing myself and as such I look for others to do that for me so I can take care of the long term planning (Se dual seeking). Not only this, but I am always focused on the future and when the right time to do something is and it is extremely hard for me to live in the moment. This reflects well the clear imbalance between the two functions. Se dual seeking also works in the sense that I lack physical presence/aggression and typically work from behind the scenes. A lot of the things I do go unnoticed.
As for the judging axis, I believe Te/Fi to be a better fit. Efficiency and benefit are things I absolutely value and while it is sometimes off, I am usually fine with assessing the motivations of others and the psychological distance between two of us in a one on one situation. Regarding that, I definitely prefer one on ones over large groups, I am always extremely hesitant to join large group voice chats (online) and discussions (IRL) because it gives me more time to think through what I want to say and is less stressful. Also, while Fi isn’t just “identity†I do believe there is an aspect of it very present in me spending 3 years on typology with the main focus being on my type. Because of this and the above mentioned point about psychological distance, Fi fits very nicely as the hidden agenda function in my stack.
Ne ignoring is apparent, I grow frustrated when people switch topics too much in conversation when what I usually want is a real in depth discussion about a single topic. The topics I discuss are abstract in nature - conspiracy theories, the paranormal, typology for that matter. In a similar vein, I enjoy those “documentary†videos on YouTube about some reddit mystery where it dives deep into that one overarching theme.
Fe PoLR fits me rather well also. I am typically uncomfortable with emotional displays and the like. That being said I do recognise it is sometimes the more efficient option to appeal to emotions so I will do so if it benefits my long term vision, seeing it as a “necessary evil†of sorts. Make no mistake, this doesn’t mean I have no empathy, though that is a common misconception people have about me. It simply means I prefer discussions to remain level headed and logical rather than overly sentimental and “mushyâ€. People often say I come off cold and reserved, this being backed up by cold being one of the most voted words on my Nohari grid.
4D Ti works in my case. I am able to come up with my own overall logical system quite easily, using both this unvalued but strong Ti and my lead Ni to get an overall impression of things. However, it being unvalued leads me to be more willing to bend these systems to be more efficient in going towards my long term goals (Ni-Te valuing).
Now that this is done, on to Enneagram (this is gonna be interesting).
Why I, Talia, am an INTJ/ILI/INTp/Balzac whatever you want to call it
Firstly, we must take a look at quadra values. ILI is a Gamma type, so here are the core aspects of the Gamma Quadra:
Te blocked with Ni
Gamma types take a longer-term view regarding efficiency and profitability, giving lower priority to the short term. Likewise, they tend to aim at the broader benefits of decisions, rather than only at those affecting themselves, giving them an inclination for self-sacrifice.
Gamma types like to talk about where present trends are leading in terms of potentially profitable events and undertakings.
Gamma types tend to give more value to ideas and concepts that are firmly connected to factual information.
Fi blocked with Se
Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance.
These values very much align with my own. I absolutely am one for long term efficiency preferring not to get bogged down in the minor details - very quickly finding relevant information and discarding unneeded information. Profit (better referred to as benefit imo) is important for me, I want to maximize my benefit from situations and am good at finding effective ways to do so. While I can certainly be idealistic, I do prefer concepts that are factually backed up and am likely to cross reference these when explaining a point. I definitely have a vengeful streak when people fuck with me and try to take advantage of me - and it is hard for me to forget what they did to me. I also do place value on personal loyalty and will cut ties if that is broken. It is hard for me to truly believe assholes can become better people as I always make the connection between person and behaviour in my mind.
Now, let’s take a look at the other half of the Gamma values, their unvalued functions:
Fe blocked with Si
Gamma types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive activity or discuss serious topics.
Gamma types reject the idea that it's best to avoid confrontations so as not to spoil the mood of those present, they prefer directness in settling or at least discussing disagreements.
Gamma types have difficulty relating to emotional atmospheres connected to "special dates" such as public holidays.
Ti blocked with Ne
Gamma types do not see much point in deeply analyzing ideas that they see as having little practical application or connection to reality.
Gamma types are more inclined to speculate and discuss possible developments of present circumstances, or how these came about, than to speculate or analyze alternative scenarios or possibilities
I have a tendency to view groups built on fun interactions as shallow, so that part rings true. I get frustrated with people who are conflict-avoidant in order to promote harmony as it just produces passive aggressiveness. I find “special dates†kind of pointless, often shallow. While I do enjoy analysing ideas, I like there to be a reason to it and I like it to be useful as I do not like to waste my time. Speculation of how circumstances can develop is very important to me, although I often end up doing that and not taking any direct action.
Now, the Gamma values fit like a glove which would leave 4 types: LIE, ILI, SEE, ESI. To get into why I am specifically an ILI we need to look at things specific to the type.
Firstly, ILIs are the only Gamma types to have a Dialectic-Algorithmic cognitive style. This style is the most fitting of me due to how quick I am to pick up on and “rat out†contradictions and paradoxes. I naturally see the negatives, what doesn’t fit. Naturally in a debate, I immediately go to what doesn't line up about the opposing argument.
ILIs also have 4D Ni and 1D Se with both being valued which I believe is a good fit for me. I clearly value this axis, but Se force and pressure is something I have a lot of difficulty producing myself and as such I look for others to do that for me so I can take care of the long term planning (Se dual seeking). Not only this, but I am always focused on the future and when the right time to do something is and it is extremely hard for me to live in the moment. This reflects well the clear imbalance between the two functions. Se dual seeking also works in the sense that I lack physical presence/aggression and typically work from behind the scenes. A lot of the things I do go unnoticed.
As for the judging axis, I believe Te/Fi to be a better fit. Efficiency and benefit are things I absolutely value and while it is sometimes off, I am usually fine with assessing the motivations of others and the psychological distance between two of us in a one on one situation. Regarding that, I definitely prefer one on ones over large groups, I am always extremely hesitant to join large group voice chats (online) and discussions (IRL) because it gives me more time to think through what I want to say and is less stressful. Also, while Fi isn’t just “identity†I do believe there is an aspect of it very present in me spending 3 years on typology with the main focus being on my type. Because of this and the above mentioned point about psychological distance, Fi fits very nicely as the hidden agenda function in my stack.
Ne ignoring is apparent, I grow frustrated when people switch topics too much in conversation when what I usually want is a real in depth discussion about a single topic. The topics I discuss are abstract in nature - conspiracy theories, the paranormal, typology for that matter. In a similar vein, I enjoy those “documentary†videos on YouTube about some reddit mystery where it dives deep into that one overarching theme.
Fe PoLR fits me rather well also. I am typically uncomfortable with emotional displays and the like. That being said I do recognise it is sometimes the more efficient option to appeal to emotions so I will do so if it benefits my long term vision, seeing it as a “necessary evil†of sorts. Make no mistake, this doesn’t mean I have no empathy, though that is a common misconception people have about me. It simply means I prefer discussions to remain level headed and logical rather than overly sentimental and “mushyâ€. People often say I come off cold and reserved, this being backed up by cold being one of the most voted words on my Nohari grid.
4D Ti works in my case. I am able to come up with my own overall logical system quite easily, using both this unvalued but strong Ti and my lead Ni to get an overall impression of things. However, it being unvalued leads me to be more willing to bend these systems to be more efficient in going towards my long term goals (Ni-Te valuing).
Now that this is done, on to Enneagram (this is gonna be interesting).
