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Does intuition or sensor effect level of experiencing things?

Sabbathhhank

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It’s just a complicated topic a little I’ve wondered if it’s my ancestry but I’ve always been a little sporty and really liked ethnic and colourful/vibrantly coloured things and always liked looking and touching feeling things. Like I loved paintings and they were a big deal to me before and found colours and things mesmerizing and I’d stare at paintings in wonder and wanted to be on because of this, for similar reasons I liked comic books as well. I think with music I just enjoyed it as this weird abstract outlet that is beyond personally subjective.

I think since I was young my senses were too keen and strong and it made everyone angry at me and I’ve wondered if at times the N/S divide can sometimes be a case of experiencing your surroundings so much that you have to repress them? And does this somehow felt type theory?

I think this photo of my stuff I a perfect example of what my problem is. I never realized it but...that’s kind of me.
35A0D639-5149-4FA9-89B7-6B23811753AF.jpg
 

whateverr

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It’s just a complicated topic a little I’ve wondered if it’s my ancestry but I’ve always been a little sporty and really liked ethnic and colourful/vibrantly coloured things and always liked looking and touching feeling things. Like I loved paintings and they were a big deal to me before and found colours and things mesmerizing and I’d stare at paintings in wonder and wanted to be on because of this, for similar reasons I liked comic books as well. I think with music I just enjoyed it as this weird abstract outlet that is beyond personally subjective.

I think since I was young my senses were too keen and strong and it made everyone angry at me and I’ve wondered if at times the N/S divide can sometimes be a case of experiencing your surroundings so much that you have to repress them? And does this somehow felt type theory?

I think this photo of my stuff I a perfect example of what my problem is. I never realized it but...that’s kind of me.
View attachment 22088

In terms of cognitive function, anything that is physical and concrete (colors, images, objects, numbers, etc) is S. Anything that requires imagination (patterns, concepts, ideas, representations, interpretation, etc) is N. So the way that you mainly perceive the world, most definitely change the way you experience it. Because if you choose to perceive less of the sensory and more of the intuition, you will pay more attention to everything that is "beyond" the sensory. So, it's likely, that if you are, let's say, dominantly a sensor, you will experience the world in a much more grounded manner. If you watched friends, you will get when i say that Phoebe is most definitely an intuitor and that Monica is, without a shadow of a doubt, a sensor. Their world views are very different.

And about the repressing, i believe that your personality is mostly defined by what you choose to repress or, in some cases, what you refuse to repress, by means of declining it's opposite.

The basic definition of the inferior function, in my view, is that it behaves like a "demon" to you. Your demons are mostly defined by your inferior functions. The demon of an ENFJ, is having to pay attention to their basic needs (Fe-Ti). Most likely, that is a person that, at an early age, was "taught" that their needs are hurtful and that they aren't as important as what it's valuable to others. So they grow up thinking that, when paying attention to their needs (Ti), they are neglecting the feelings of the external world (Fe), and that's a very difficult thing to process to someone who runs away from paying attention to that side of themselves. So it's common to see that it's developed this "martyr complex" in which they'd live for the well-being of the collective and neglecting themselves. So most of their personality will be defined by that.
So it's fair to say that your dominant perceiving function has it's dominance due to what you chose to repress. However, you could go through the same process of "being taught that your needs are bad" and rebel to this, which would end up being a Ti dom - Fe inf person. So their personality would be develop according to their rebellion to what was taught to them in the first place.

But in both ways, the dominant function only exists because you choose to decline it's opposite. So yeah, i think that the divide you experience is probably due to that. You are unwilling to recognize one of your sides unconsciously and that usually happens due to repression. But, in my completely baseless and unscientific opinion, i'd guess you're an Ne dom by the looks of the picture lol. I have the impression that most ExxP's would empathize with this post. But for some reason i'd guess ENxP, probably ENFP but idk why. Intuitive guess lmao
 

Sabbathhhank

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In terms of cognitive function, anything that is physical and concrete (colors, images, objects, numbers, etc) is S. Anything that requires imagination (patterns, concepts, ideas, representations, interpretation, etc) is N. So the way that you mainly perceive the world, most definitely change the way you experience it. Because if you choose to perceive less of the sensory and more of the intuition, you will pay more attention to everything that is "beyond" the sensory. So, it's likely, that if you are, let's say, dominantly a sensor, you will experience the world in a much more grounded manner. If you watched friends, you will get when i say that Phoebe is most definitely an intuitor and that Monica is, without a shadow of a doubt, a sensor. Their world views are very different.

And about the repressing, i believe that your personality is mostly defined by what you choose to repress or, in some cases, what you refuse to repress, by means of declining it's opposite.

The basic definition of the inferior function, in my view, is that it behaves like a "demon" to you. Your demons are mostly defined by your inferior functions. The demon of an ENFJ, is having to pay attention to their basic needs (Fe-Ti). Most likely, that is a person that, at an early age, was "taught" that their needs are hurtful and that they aren't as important as what it's valuable to others. So they grow up thinking that, when paying attention to their needs (Ti), they are neglecting the feelings of the external world (Fe), and that's a very difficult thing to process to someone who runs away from paying attention to that side of themselves. So it's common to see that it's developed this "martyr complex" in which they'd live for the well-being of the collective and neglecting themselves. So most of their personality will be defined by that.
So it's fair to say that your dominant perceiving function has it's dominance due to what you chose to repress. However, you could go through the same process of "being taught that your needs are bad" and rebel to this, which would end up being a Ti dom - Fe inf person. So their personality would be develop according to their rebellion to what was taught to them in the first place.

But in both ways, the dominant function only exists because you choose to decline it's opposite. So yeah, i think that the divide you experience is probably due to that. You are unwilling to recognize one of your sides unconsciously and that usually happens due to repression. But, in my completely baseless and unscientific opinion, i'd guess you're an Ne dom by the looks of the picture lol. I have the impression that most ExxP's would empathize with this post. But for some reason i'd guess ENxP, probably ENFP but idk why. Intuitive guess lmao

You’re not as smart as you think you are, ahahahahahhahahaha.

Nonetheless I value your important and time, good post. Honestly though I just wonder exactly what the difference and how exactly the N/S divide work like they a lot of intuitive’s senses are too strong so they have to repress them to some degree which makes them react and behave in the manner that is termed by the MBTI as being “intuitive” it’s hard to explain exactly but I think about myself like I said I almost was too happy and enjoyed the present too much, that I think I ended up having to repress and ignore a lot of my feelings and sensation to where I felt like I become more withdrawn and detached and then I become what stereotypically represented as an “N” it’s actually hard for me to really say for sure lol what I am.

Basically I just wonder how the idea of intuition as a facet of personality, how much of it is really real, you know?
 

whateverr

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You’re not as smart as you think you are, ahahahahahhahahaha.
It's difficult to tell the tone of what people say by written text, but that sounded a little bit disrespectful. What did you mean by this?

Nonetheless I value your important and time, good post. Honestly though I just wonder exactly what the difference and how exactly the N/S divide work like they a lot of intuitive’s senses are too strong so they have to repress them to some degree which makes them react and behave in the manner that is termed by the MBTI as being “intuitive” it’s hard to explain exactly but I think about myself like I said I almost was too happy and enjoyed the present too much, that I think I ended up having to repress and ignore a lot of my feelings and sensation to where I felt like I become more withdrawn and detached and then I become what stereotypically represented as an “N” it’s actually hard for me to really say for sure lol what I am.

Basically I just wonder how the idea of intuition as a facet of personality, how much of it is really real, you know?

But anyway, using the benefit of the doubt, that last statement sounded very intuition-based to me. And what you wrote is pretty much de definition of the repression of x functions. So it's very likely that you're unconsciously not seeing what you really do, because you, unconsciously, don't want to face it. That's what Jung says about it, at least. And that "withdrawn" aspect isn't associated to N/S as far as i'am concerned. As far as i know, it's usually associated with Fi and Ti. Ni/Si doesn't really make someone withdrawn. It doesn't affect that type of behavior.
N/S is how you look at things. That's it. If you withdraw to do that, that's a separate issue. The action you take on that is more correlated to judgers then to perceivers, as far as i know. And even then, it still's unclear.
I.E:
An INFP Fi-Ne, MIGHT withdraw because he doesn't want to explain to people (Te) the things that they value and why they do the things the do (Fi). And instead of paying attention to the sensory (facts,data) (S) they prefer to focus on the underlying patterns and the concept surrounding it (N), by gathering new concepts and ideas (Ne), rather than organizing and revisiting known facts (Si). Then, you have an Fi-Ne-Si-Te INFP. But even still, an Fi doesn't necessarily withdraw. What i think you should look at is WHY do you withdraw. The next time you're feeling that you're about to detach, think "why am i doing this?". If your most honest answer is, "because i want to take a good look to understand why", it's probably N. If you think "because i want to take a good look at the facts and see what's happening", it's probably S. And, what i actually think it is (but it might not be, it's just more likely), "because i don't want to engage", it's probably due to dom Ti or Fi and inferior Te/Fe.

And just a clarification, it's better to look at functions/typing like this:

Fi: Self values
Fe: Collective values
Ti: Self reasons
Te: Collective reasons

Ni: Organizing ideas/concepts
Ne: Gathering ideas/concepts
Si: Organizing data/facts
Se: Gathering data/facts

Try not to associate behavior with function. Associate the WHY of the behavior to the functions. It might be easier for you to reach a conclusion.
And watch this. It might help you to take a better view at yourself. It helped me a lot, at least.
EDIT:
This might also help.
 

Sabbathhhank

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It's difficult to tell the tone of what people say by written text, but that sounded a little bit disrespectful. What did you mean by this?



But anyway, using the benefit of the doubt, that last statement sounded very intuition-based to me. And what you wrote is pretty much de definition of the repression of x functions. So it's very likely that you're unconsciously not seeing what you really do, because you, unconsciously, don't want to face it. That's what Jung says about it, at least. And that "withdrawn" aspect isn't associated to N/S as far as i'am concerned. As far as i know, it's usually associated with Fi and Ti. Ni/Si doesn't really make someone withdrawn. It doesn't affect that type of behavior.
N/S is how you look at things. That's it. If you withdraw to do that, that's a separate issue. The action you take on that is more correlated to judgers then to perceivers, as far as i know. And even then, it still's unclear.
I.E:
An INFP Fi-Ne, MIGHT withdraw because he doesn't want to explain to people (Te) the things that they value and why they do the things the do (Fi). And instead of paying attention to the sensory (facts,data) (S) they prefer to focus on the underlying patterns and the concept surrounding it (N), by gathering new concepts and ideas (Ne), rather than organizing and revisiting known facts (Si). Then, you have an Fi-Ne-Si-Te INFP. But even still, an Fi doesn't necessarily withdraw. What i think you should look at is WHY do you withdraw. The next time you're feeling that you're about to detach, think "why am i doing this?". If your most honest answer is, "because i want to take a good look to understand why", it's probably N. If you think "because i want to take a good look at the facts and see what's happening", it's probably S. And, what i actually think it is (but it might not be, it's just more likely), "because i don't want to engage", it's probably due to dom Ti or Fi and inferior Te/Fe.

And just a clarification, it's better to look at functions/typing like this:

Fi: Self values
Fe: Collective values
Ti: Self reasons
Te: Collective reasons

Ni: Organizing ideas/concepts
Ne: Gathering ideas/concepts
Si: Organizing data/facts
Se: Gathering data/facts

Try not to associate behavior with function. Associate the WHY of the behavior to the functions. It might be easier for you to reach a conclusion.
And watch this. It might help you to take a better view at yourself. It helped me a lot, at least.
EDIT:
This might also help.

You don’t get what I’m subtly insinuating and I just think it’s funny, I don’t mean it as an insult I was trying to just have fun with you...
 

whateverr

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You don’t get what I’m subtly insinuating and I just think it’s funny, I don’t mean it as an insult I was trying to just have fun with you...

I figured it. It's just that it's hard to tell what people mean sometimes by text. I could've sounded way more agressive than i actually am atm for instance. But it's fine, don't worry. But check out the things that i listed below. It might really help you out. They helped me, at least.
 

Sabbathhhank

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It's difficult to tell the tone of what people say by written text, but that sounded a little bit disrespectful. What did you mean by this?



But anyway, using the benefit of the doubt, that last statement sounded very intuition-based to me. And what you wrote is pretty much de definition of the repression of x functions. So it's very likely that you're unconsciously not seeing what you really do, because you, unconsciously, don't want to face it. That's what Jung says about it, at least. And that "withdrawn" aspect isn't associated to N/S as far as i'am concerned. As far as i know, it's usually associated with Fi and Ti. Ni/Si doesn't really make someone withdrawn. It doesn't affect that type of behavior.
N/S is how you look at things. That's it. If you withdraw to do that, that's a separate issue. The action you take on that is more correlated to judgers then to perceivers, as far as i know. And even then, it still's unclear.
I.E:
An INFP Fi-Ne, MIGHT withdraw because he doesn't want to explain to people (Te) the things that they value and why they do the things the do (Fi). And instead of paying attention to the sensory (facts,data) (S) they prefer to focus on the underlying patterns and the concept surrounding it (N), by gathering new concepts and ideas (Ne), rather than organizing and revisiting known facts (Si). Then, you have an Fi-Ne-Si-Te INFP. But even still, an Fi doesn't necessarily withdraw. What i think you should look at is WHY do you withdraw. The next time you're feeling that you're about to detach, think "why am i doing this?". If your most honest answer is, "because i want to take a good look to understand why", it's probably N. If you think "because i want to take a good look at the facts and see what's happening", it's probably S. And, what i actually think it is (but it might not be, it's just more likely), "because i don't want to engage", it's probably due to dom Ti or Fi and inferior Te/Fe.

And just a clarification, it's better to look at functions/typing like this:

Fi: Self values
Fe: Collective values
Ti: Self reasons
Te: Collective reasons

Ni: Organizing ideas/concepts
Ne: Gathering ideas/concepts
Si: Organizing data/facts
Se: Gathering data/facts

Try not to associate behavior with function. Associate the WHY of the behavior to the functions. It might be easier for you to reach a conclusion.
And watch this. It might help you to take a better view at yourself. It helped me a lot, at least.
EDIT:
This might also help.

But how can you see patterns without facts? What’s the difference.
 

Red Memories

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But how can you see patterns without facts? What’s the difference.

This is where MBTI gets complicated, sit down for a bumpy ride. :p

So, technically, you are correct. You aren't going to see a pattern without data. But that is why none of our cognitive functions just function alone. Everything with MBTI works upon an axis. This axis goes either I-E-I-E or E-I-E-I. Introvert - extravert, extravert - introvert. Why?

When you have inward data, you will need to look outward to gather data or things related. If you gain outward data, you will have to digest it inward to find how you think or feel about it.
So say me, who normally types as an ENFP actually, I would have this function set:
Ne
Fi
Te
Si

So I gather ideas and concepts, then I digest them with Fi to see if they fit within my worldview of ethics and etc. And with my view I will then use Te to collect reasons this is so, and my Si works as a filter organizing this big mess of a brain I have. All the functions work together, that is why if you're merely studying the function alone, you may struggle to figure out which function you are. It is good for understanding the function itself, but they never work alone. Always keep that in mind with cognitive functions.
 

whateverr

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This is where MBTI gets complicated, sit down for a bumpy ride. :p

So, technically, you are correct. You aren't going to see a pattern without data. But that is why none of our cognitive functions just function alone. Everything with MBTI works upon an axis. This axis goes either I-E-I-E or E-I-E-I. Introvert - extravert, extravert - introvert. Why?

When you have inward data, you will need to look outward to gather data or things related. If you gain outward data, you will have to digest it inward to find how you think or feel about it.
So say me, who normally types as an ENFP actually, I would have this function set:
Ne
Fi
Te
Si

So I gather ideas and concepts, then I digest them with Fi to see if they fit within my worldview of ethics and etc. And with my view I will then use Te to collect reasons this is so, and my Si works as a filter organizing this big mess of a brain I have. All the functions work together, that is why if you're merely studying the function alone, you may struggle to figure out which function you are. It is good for understanding the function itself, but they never work alone. Always keep that in mind with cognitive functions.

That's a very good explanation. And, also, bear in mind that everyone uses all the functions. It's just a matter of what you pay attention to the most and what you don't pay attention to a lot. And also, as it was written above, how YOUR cognitive process work. And there are people that refuse to gather data, or are reluctant to, and just "guess" or imagine the way around things. And there are also people that refuse to look past anything that goes beyond the concrete.
Jordan Peterson once said that a lot of his peers remember the exact quotes and the pages of the specific book that they read to extract their information, but he doesn't. He kinda remember what he read, not necessarily where, but what really mattered to him wasn't the information per se. It was what it meant. It was the concept behind it. So he really remembers the concepts and the ideas and is also able to connect those and elaborate on those with way more ease in contrast to their peers, that do that through facts. That's a good picture of someone who pays more attention to N than to S.
 
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whateverr said:
And, also, bear in mind that everyone uses all the functions.
Following Isabel Briggs Myers, Every MBTI type only has a unique Jungian psychological functions arrangement: Primary, auxiliary, tertiary, inferior and Some functions available in a type are not available in some type, making the type won't get naturally conscious of what specific functions can naturally and habitually be conscious of. Let's take an example, Of the 8 psychological functions, MBTItype: ENTP has only four functions at their stack: Ne primary paired with Ti auxiliary, and Fe tertiary paired with Si auxiliary, which is frequently written as Ne-Ti,Fe-Si, another four: Fi, Se, Te, Ni for any extroverted judging function and introverted perceptive function, vice versa pairing arrangement are not available at their stack.
 

Sabbathhhank

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I feel like I’m being given a straw man all the time here, I’ll think of more detailed responses later, I just think/surmise intuitive repress their emotional responses and it’s widely known they’re often more spacey or out of touch with the moment and their senses, why is that?

Comes down to what you define as fact/verses patterns and possibilities but that being said, what does “noticing patterns” mean? Damn that’s vague and strange usage of phrases, like wtf?
 

whateverr

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I feel like I’m being given a straw man all the time here, I’ll think of more detailed responses later, I just think/surmise intuitive repress their emotional responses and it’s widely known they’re often more spacey or out of touch with the moment and their senses, why is that?

Comes down to what you define as fact/verses patterns and possibilities but that being said, what does “noticing patterns” mean? Damn that’s vague and strange usage of phrases, like wtf?
It is, but when you actually get it, you'll see that it is the best way to phrase it.
If you imagine that you have some seeds in you're hand, your Se is the function responsible to recognize that there are, in fact, seeds in your hand. Si makes you register what seeds are. They have x color, x amount of weight, they're usually small and they are good for planting stuff. Your Ne will then imagine the possibilities you'll have with that. You could plant a tree, you could eat them right now, you could throw them at your friend's face to piss him off, you could shove them up your ass or whatever. Then your Ni, will prioritize those possibilities to see what best meets your possible future needs, it's like: "your going through quarantine right now, maybe the best way to go is to plant those. Schools are closing, malls are closing... Maybe supermarkets close to. Where will you get your food? You should plant them right now because in the future, if you starve, you'll have that covered".
Again, you have access to all of them. You can recognize it. If you didn't have Si, let's say, then you'd never know why you shouldn't put your hand in the fire. You know it burns, so don't do that again. If you didn't have Ne, you'd never be able to see any sort of possibilities whatsoever. But what changes the game is, where do you put your attention to most of the time and, which do you recognize it exists, but it annoys you, so you choose to not pay attention to a lot, cuz it drains you. My dom perceiver is Ni, meaning, i like to funnel down possibilities and i like to pay attention to my funneled down possibilities. I like to trace imaginary paths and plans and i feel safe and comfortable doing that. However, if i love doing that, having to pay attention that RIGHT NOW there is a sensory thing happening that takes me away from these singular future possibilities, pisses me off. Because if i love organizing imaginary concepts, having to gather sensory data annoys me. That's pretty much it.
EDIT: this just reminded me of the "do i look like a guy with a plan" scene from the Dark Knight. Joker says "i'm like a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with it if i caught it. I just do things." That's classical Ne dom. He doesn't want to have to plan and organize what's happening right now. After all, who gives a sh*t about order? What's cool is exploring possibilities. Ne dom over Si. He knows how to organize S things. But he wouldn't really like to do it.

Following Isabel Briggs Myers, Every MBTI type only has a unique Jungian psychological functions arrangement: Primary, auxiliary, tertiary, inferior and Some functions available in a type are not available in some type, making the type won't get naturally conscious of what specific functions can naturally and habitually be conscious of. Let's take an example, Of the 8 psychological functions, MBTItype: ENTP has only four functions at their stack: Ne primary paired with Ti auxiliary, and Fe tertiary paired with Si auxiliary, which is frequently written as Ne-Ti,Fe-Si, another four: Fi, Se, Te, Ni for any extroverted judging function and introverted perceptive function, vice versa pairing arrangement are not available at their stack.
That's actually a misconception. If you actually take a look at Jung, cognitive functions have actually little to do with personality on their own. Jung just tracked what is the system that people use to process the world around us. And then, he realized, that some people used some more than the others. And that, to some extent, influenced behavior and personality. So if you don't use one of them, you wouldn't really recognize the world at all. That's why mental health professionals refer to some neurological disabilities as "cognitive disorders". If you don't really use one of the functions, in theory, you'd fail to recognize an important part of the world. If an ENTP, following your example, didn't use Se, they wouldn't be able to gather no sensory information at all (that's the definition of Se according to Jung). So there would be nothing to compare to (Si) therefore nothing to imagine based on it (Ne) and nothing to plan with it (Ni). Not having Se "on a stack" means that the neurological functions of a human being are compromised. If you're a NT (neuro-typical, not Intuitive Thinker) you most definitely have all the functions working perfectly fine. The deal is, where do you want to pay attention to and where do you don't want to, but you have to. Because again, you're a human being, you will process everything, you just don't really want to. INTPs don't want to have to care about people's values and opinions (lower Fe), they hate it in fact. But they have to, because they recognize it's existence. If they didn't, they'd either be sociopaths or they'd die. You need people to accept you. The human being is a pack animal, if you wonder alone into the woods, you die. That's one of your primal animal instincts. So if you didn't recognize that, that means that you probably have an anti-social disorder or that, eventually, you'll get your self killed.
 
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That's actually a misconception.
You sound not to agree with Myers by stating so.

If you actually take a look at Jung, cognitive functions have actually little to do with personality on their own. Jung just tracked what is the system that people use to process the world around us. And then, he realized, that some people used some more than the others. And that, to some extent, influenced behavior and personality.
I would just comment that that is perhaps how you yourself understand what Jung has written. You should read or re read Ch X Psychological Type
So if you don't use one of them, you wouldn't really recognize the world at all.
Nope. That is not what I understand. What I understand is that with different psychological function, what each personality can be conscious of is different. It largely depends on each functions consciousness nature.
That's why mental health professionals refer to some neurological disabilities as "cognitive disorders".

I would comment you need to elaborate on this. Neurological disabilities and cognitive disorder should be explained. Sometimes i feel that you use too many concepts that you expect others are familiar with also as you may be, whereas they should be clarified, at the very least: giving a definition.

If you don't really use one of the functions, in theory, you'd fail to recognize an important part of the world.
You should clearly explain what "the important part of the world" that you referred to.
If an ENTP, following your example, didn't use Se, they wouldn't be able to gather no sensory information at all (that's the definition of Se according to Jung).

Nope. This is not what I understand nor what Jung did. Type with Si pairing with one of the extroverted judging psychological functions can still gather sensory information but get conscious of and respond differently with type with Se at their stack.
Si with ENTP is paired with Fe, would behave naturally judgmental; they judged things and make decision and take actions based on feeling, if balanced (since Fe-Si is available at tertiary and inferior function at their stack). ENTP could even be like a soldier or a warrior that is naturally performed by ESFJ, if well balanced. What ESFJ do could be what ENTP do also, when they behaved like ESFJ using their Fe-Si pair.
Se with one of introverted judging function will naturally behave perceivingly; they observably behave like a perception maker.

I have an example for Se and Si. it happened when a sun eclipse happened couple of years ago. I wanted to capture the moment with my camera so I brought my camera outside when the eclipse was happening. I passed a bistro and overheard that a waiter mumbled that the eclipse was just like a sickle and continued to serve customers
Do you notice the similarities and difference? I was preparing to capture the moment by photographing it and actually I did, while she only judged the eclipse. I wanted to capture the moment since it is a rare happenings. I cannot expect that sun eclipse happens every day. So when that rare moment happened, I took a picture for it. My behavior and her were different as a response to a similar event: a sun eclipse. The factual even may have been the same: the sun eclipse, but the response was tremendously different. Why we had a different response to similar event? if you tried to explain it by MBTI, it is explainable. My observable behavior is identified as sensory perceiving one that is making a photograph, while her is judgmental with by mumbling" the eclipse is just like a sickle." and continued to work. Behaviorally, Mine was to make a perception: a photograph itself, her was only to judge and ignored. That behavior gives some clue to the underlying cognitive functions, further. Still Referring to Myers, introverted perceptive functions, paired with any extroverted judging function, a behavior resulted will be like XXXJ, an introverted judging function paired with extroverted perceiving function will result with a perceptive behavior XXXP. Since both of us did a practical action, our behavior is associated with sensory functions, not the intuitive one. I acted like XXSP and she acted like XXSJ.
That was not the first time. In 1996, a sun eclipse happened. I was just a kid. I wanted to observe the sun eclipse but direct staring with naked eye could blind our eye. So i decided to watch it through a very black negative film. Our family maid knew that eclipse happening but she seemed not to pay much attention to it. She is judger and by observing the eclipse through a very black negative film, I was acting like a perceiver, in MBTI terms.
So there would be nothing to compare to (Si) therefore nothing to imagine based on it (Ne) and nothing to plan with it (Ni).
Saying this, You have associated comparison to Si, imagination to Ne and planning with Ni.
Not having Se "on a stack" means that the neurological functions of a human being are compromised.

Sounds like a non sequitur fallacy.

Not to have Se( extroverted sensation) function in your stack means everything that psychological function :Se can get conscious of can never be conscious to the psyche.


If you're a NT (neuro-typical, not Intuitive Thinker) you most definitely have all the functions working perfectly fine.
Would you imply only a psychopathic man could get all the functions working? Four functions work at your stack would be possible, if we were balanced. But even if we got successfully get conscious of feeling and thinking, intuition and sensation, some functions that are not available at our stack can never be balanced by the person himself.
I would say you could be psychopathic, if you thought that you had all 8 psychological functions at your stack although they might not work perfectly fine.

The deal is, where do you want to pay attention to and where do you don't want to, but you have to.
I don't have any comment for this.
Because again, you're a human being, you will process everything, you just don't really want to.
My comment for this would be: I wish I could process everything and got conscious of everything, but what I learnt in typology, that is not possible, even if I wanted to so much.
INTPs don't want to have to care about people's values and opinions (lower Fe), they hate it in fact. But they have to, because they recognize it's existence. If they didn't, they'd either be sociopaths or they'd die. You need people to accept you.
If they successfully gets balanced with Fe, they will.
The human being is a pack animal, if you wonder alone into the woods, you die. That's one of your primal animal instincts. So if you didn't recognize that, that means that you probably have an anti-social disorder or that, eventually, you'll get your self killed.
I actually do not want to have any comment for this one and I am not familiar with antisocial disorder concept nor i want to study it.

But, on the second thought I'd say:
Would you imply that I have an antisocial disorder and an antisocial one can get themselves killed?
Getting ourselves killed: suicide can happen if we get depression.

You could be projecting this, which means that could be you who want to commit suicide but tell it was me who wanted to do so. If it happened that you wanted to commit it, you probably are in depressed mental state and probably had the same warrior soul like Japanese samurai who commit seppuku in order to restore honor as a part of their Bushido way of life .
However, If it happened that you get depressed, and experience a suicidal thought, you should visit a psychiatrist. If you are sure that you have a warrior soul, you should join the military if still possible.
But Even if you get depressed and wanted to commit suicide, but you hold a religious teaching that forbids it, you probably won't. I remember that My mother (ESFJ) once said that if she was not afraid of die as a "kafir" , she would commit suicide. Looks like She had felt an urge to but she didn't do it, since she must hold that suicide is forbidden that one could die" kaifr "if committed that she doesn't want to.
 

whateverr

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You sound not to agree with Myers by stating so.
I'm not sure, since i have no specific references to something she said specifically. If there are any books or articles written by her, i'm not familiar with it.

I would just comment that that is perhaps how you yourself understand what Jung has written. You should read or re read Ch X Psychological Type

Nope. That is not what I understand. What I understand is that with different psychological function, what each personality can be conscious of is different. It largely depends on each functions consciousness nature.
Yes, sure, it might be different interpretations. Not going to argue about that. By the end of the day, we see the world from different points of views.
I could re-read it, however, i'm not sure if i would actually reach to your understanding. I agree with the conscious aspect of it, i actually pointed that out in of the posts you quoted in the thread, but it's still this. That's why typing is very tricky (if you want to do it accurately, or objectively), because you have to take a real look inside in why you avoid certain things or situations. Why the things that "trigger" you, really trigger you and how that influences behavior. But you do use all the functions, it's impossible to stat that you don't. You do use them. If i didn't use Si, i wouldn't be able to know that, as i stated before, i have to avoid putting my hand in the fire. I know it burns, so i won't do that. That's pretty much Si. I wouldn't know that fire is called "fire". I wouldn't know what "burning" is. And i wouldn't even know what "burning" feels like or what is heat, or actually perceive any sensory information if i didn't have Se in the first place. But i am an Ni dom, so how's that? It's because i just hate to pay attention to it. I hate having to actually look at the time to see what time it is. I hate to have to actually go look for facts and books if i could just figure the thing that i want to figure out by myself. I perceive it, i realize that it exists. It just annoys me. Because overtime, i developed an affinity for the Ni function. I could explore different possibilities of things that might be good for me (Ne), how would i know what's good for me if i don't go after it? Because i don't want to, because i have something that i envision and that i dedicate my attention to and i don't want to diverge from that (Ni). I recognize that the other parts exist, i just don't want to pay as much attention to them. And i really avoid one in specific, Se, because it is the one that takes me away from my Ni most of the times. You can't really "Ni" if your "Se'ing". And if you really want to "Ni your way through life", having to "Se" sometimes will be annoying as hell. But all of that isn't 100% conscious. I had to really work on this to be able to notice it.

I would comment you need to elaborate on this. Neurological disabilities and cognitive disorder should be explained. Sometimes i feel that you use too many concepts that you expect others are familiar with also as you may be, whereas they should be clarified, at the very least: giving a definition.
My inf-Se is getting triggered right now, but let's go look for references lol
"Cognitive disorders are a category of mental health disorders that primarily affect learning, memory, perception, and problem solving, and include amnesia, dementia, and delirium." I got it from here. It's not a scientific paper, but i'm to lazy to go through one right now. If you're willing to find anything more in-depth please let me know, but anyway.
I think that sums it up. I don't think that a lack of se,si,ni,ne can CAUSE dementia. But i think that it's fair to say that if you were to analyze the psychological/behavioral patterns of someone with impaired neurological systems, you'd see a WILD difference in perceiving functions in them in contrast to a neuro-typical human. I think it's safe to say that someone with impaired problem solving doesn't really recognize Ne. Someone with a pathological reckless behavior might not really recognize Ni.
Now let's take a look at delirium.

"Delirium develops rapidly over a short period of time and is characterized by a disturbance in cognition, manifested by confusion, excitement, disorientation, and a clouding of consciousness. Hallucinations and illusions are common, and some individuals may experience acute onset change of consciousness. It is a disorder that makes situational awareness and processing new information very difficult for those diagnosed. It usually has a high rate of onset ranging from minutes to hours and sometimes days, but it does not last for very long, only a few hours to weeks. Delirium can also be accompanied by a shift in attention, mood swings, violent or unordinary behaviors, and hallucinations. It can be caused by a preexisting medical condition. Delirium during a hospital stay can result in a longer stay and more risk of complications and long terms stays" - got it here. You can check for their actual references in the "references" part of the page.
We gotta admit that this sounds like someone who has a lot of trouble recognizing S. But that doesn't mean that every N dom in the world has delirium episodes. Most of them don't. But we can all agree that all of people that actually have pathological delirium episodes have very little access to their sensory functions.
Let me clarify that the absence of use in these functions cause this type of things. I'm just saying that people that suffer from this, most likely don't have any sort of grasp in some of their perceiving functions at all, if you were to look at it through an Jungian lens. Their cure and treatment lies in the neurological field, of course, but i'm just entertaining what would theoretically happen if you didn't have access to a cognitive function. Meaning that, if someone doesn't really have access to those functions, you might have neurological conditions.

Nope. This is not what I understand nor what Jung did. Type with Si pairing with one of the extroverted judging psychological functions can still gather sensory information but get conscious of and respond differently with type with Se at their stack.
Si with ENTP is paired with Fe, would behave naturally judgmental; they judged things and make decision and take actions based on feeling, if balanced (since Fe-Si is available at tertiary and inferior function at their stack). ENTP could even be like a soldier or a warrior that is naturally performed by ESFJ, if well balanced. What ESFJ do could be what ENTP do also, when they behaved like ESFJ using their Fe-Si pair.
Se with one of introverted judging function will naturally behave perceivingly; they observably behave like a perception maker.

I have an example for Se and Si. it happened when a sun eclipse happened couple of years ago. I wanted to capture the moment with my camera so I brought my camera outside when the eclipse was happening. I passed a bistro and overheard that a waiter mumbled that the eclipse was just like a sickle and continued to serve customers
Do you notice the similarities and difference? I was preparing to capture the moment by photographing it and actually I did, while she only judged the eclipse. I wanted to capture the moment since it is a rare happenings. I cannot expect that sun eclipse happens every day. So when that rare moment happened, I took a picture for it. My behavior and her were different as a response to a similar event: a sun eclipse. The factual even may have been the same: the sun eclipse, but the response was tremendously different. Why we had a different response to similar event? if you tried to explain it by MBTI, it is explainable. My observable behavior is identified as sensory perceiving one that is making a photograph, while her is judgmental with by mumbling" the eclipse is just like a sickle." and continued to work. Behaviorally, Mine was to make a perception: a photograph itself, her was only to judge and ignored. That behavior gives some clue to the underlying cognitive functions, further. Still Referring to Myers, introverted perceptive functions, paired with any extroverted judging function, a behavior resulted will be like XXXJ, an introverted judging function paired with extroverted perceiving function will result with a perceptive behavior XXXP. Since both of us did a practical action, our behavior is associated with sensory functions, not the intuitive one. I acted like XXSP and she acted like XXSJ.
That was not the first time. In 1996, a sun eclipse happened. I was just a kid. I wanted to observe the sun eclipse but direct staring with naked eye could blind our eye. So i decided to watch it through a very black negative film. Our family maid knew that eclipse happening but she seemed not to pay much attention to it. She is judger and by observing the eclipse through a very black negative film, I was acting like a perceiver, in MBTI terms.
[/SPOILER]
Yes, i see your point. It's pretty much what i see, in different words. What i was arguing is that ENTPs do have and use Se. But when using their S functions, they'd probably be more in touch or more aware of their Si. Or at least it would influence their behavior or respond to their unconscious traumas or whatever, more than Se. Because when they want to gather information (or look at it in a objective way, whatever you prefer) they'd use their intuition way more than their senses, due to unconscious preferences. But they do perceive the objective sensory, otherwise they'd probably have the delirium episodes i mentioned above. If they don't, it probably means that they're se users, just not as much as si users probably and, not neeeeear as much as Ne and Ni.

Not to have Se( extroverted sensation) function in your stack means everything that psychological function :Se can get conscious of can never be conscious to the psyche.
I apologize, but i'm not sure if i got this.
What you mean is that, the Se function works, however it will never be as psychologically conscious as Si. Did i get this wrong?

Would you imply only a psychopathic man could get all the functions working? Four functions work at your stack would be possible, if we were balanced. But even if we got successfully get conscious of feeling and thinking, intuition and sensation, some functions that are not available at our stack can never be balanced by the person himself.
I would say you could be psychopathic, if you thought that you had all 8 psychological functions at your stack although they might not work perfectly fine.

I'm not sure. I don't think so. I think that the psychopathic man would use some functions into a "perverse" agenda. And he'd recognize that, he just wouldn't care. That's my opinion at least. I think that psychopaths, for instance, use Fe way better than most people. They identify and play by your values, your feelings and etc so that they can manipulate you. You have to recognize Fe and use it extensively when manipulating someone. Psychopaths do this all the time. So i think that psychopaths, might have a better access to their judging functions maybe, or at least to Fe and Te. But i'm not sure about all 8. I'm not a connoisseur of psychopathic behavior, so it's difficult for me to say.

My comment for this would be: I wish I could process everything and got conscious of everything, but what I learnt in typology, that is not possible, even if I wanted to so much.

Oh, i agree with that. You can't. When going through this post, i'm using all my 4 functions. I'm aware of only Ni and maaaybe Si right now. I know what i want to say, and how i should say it, what i should reference, etc etc (Ni+Si). But even then, it's not totally conscious. I'm in auto pilot, as everyone is, 90% of the time. That's why it's difficult to type yourself. You're only aware of what you're doing and thinking about very few times. Most of the times, you're not aware of what you're doing. So usually, the perception you have of yourself is all mixed up.
I used to think that i was either an ISTP or an ENFP when in actuality, i'm probably an INTJ and maybe an ENTJ. Because if i were to describe myself, i would describe the smaller part of me that i really wanted to come out, or that i really want to be because i identify with it, but it only comes out like 10% of the time. The rest of the time i'm being this arrogant, loner, bossy, know-it -all asshole that get's angry when people don't do things according to the way i think they should, because after all, i know better (Ni), i know what best works for everyone and screw you individuality (Te) and shut up about it. Of course i don't really see myself that way, but this is who i am when i'm in auto-pilot. Which is, most of the time.
Just to clarify, i know i'm not this asshole i just described above, but that would be the closest description to my actual behavior than to the one i thought i had lol

But, on the second thought I'd say:
Would you imply that I have an antisocial disorder and an antisocial one can get themselves killed?
Getting ourselves killed: suicide can happen if we get depression.
Oh, not in a suicidal way. What i meant was, that if you want to be by yourself, and i mean, literally, without anyone else, you'll get yourself killed because the human being needs outside help. If you lived in a jungle by yourself, it's way more likely for you to die sooner than someone that lives with a pack of other humans. And that kinda applies to todays life as well. If someone really didn't wanted help from anyone. Friends, family, uber drivers, teachers, doctors, etc. how long do you think that person would last?

You could be projecting this, which means that could be you who want to commit suicide but tell it was me who wanted to do so. If it happened that you wanted to commit it, you probably are in depressed mental state and probably had the same warrior soul like Japanese samurai who commit seppuku in order to restore honor as a part of their Bushido way of life .
However, If it happened that you get depressed, and experience a suicidal thought, you should visit a psychiatrist. If you are sure that you have a warrior soul, you should join the military if still possible.
But Even if you get depressed and wanted to commit suicide, but you hold a religious teaching that forbids it, you probably won't. I remember that My mother (ESFJ) once said that if she was not afraid of die as a "kafir" , she would commit suicide. Looks like She had felt an urge to but she didn't do it, since she must hold that suicide is forbidden that one could die" kaifr "if committed that she doesn't want to.
Get your point. I don't think suicide and mental state in this front has anything to do with cognitive functions per se. I'm sorry about your mother. I had friends that went through similar periods. I had a deep depression a couple years back, didn't consider suicide, but i know how it is.
And maybe, if i were to analyze in jungian terms, the belief in external codes (Te/Fe) can actually save you from a depressed state, in some cases. It's an interesting point.
But again, i'm sorry about your mother and this story. Don't want to be insensitive.
 
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I'm not sure, since i have no specific references to something she said specifically. If there are any books or articles written by her, i'm not familiar with it.
Then, How could you say that it was a misconception? .
Perhaps, You should have elaborated/Explain more at which point you think four psychological function stack was wrong (e.g May be you want to explain what you think is wrong with ENTP stack i.e Ne primary paired with Ti auxiliary, Fe tertiary paired with Si inferior is. You stated that we [regardless of personality type] use all of the 8 psychological functions right?, So, the 4 psychological functions stack that constitute personality type of MBTI is wrong, since All of 8 Jungian psychological functions is available at every personality stack in your opinion.


Yes, sure, it might be different interpretations. Not going to argue about that. By the end of the day, we see the world from different points of views.
I could re-read it, however, i'm not sure if i would actually reach to your understanding.
I agree with the conscious aspect of it, i actually pointed that out in of the posts you quoted in the thread, but it's still this. That's why typing is very tricky (if you want to do it accurately, or objectively), because you have to take a real look inside in why you avoid certain things or situations. Why the things that "trigger" you, really trigger you and how that influences behavior.

You may have developed your own understanding by stating this.
But you do use all the functions,
Really?

it's impossible to stat that you don't.
Possible.
To identify that you have to understand the nature of each functions and When you realize you are never conscious of anything that a spesific function can be conscious of habitually, you can say that this function is unconscious to you or probably not even available. The problem of unsconscious functions is that they are not always unsconscious, sometimes, they can be conscious. We probably do not recognize how particular function is manifested.
However to do so, we have to familiarize ourselves with the nature of each functions. We won't be able to identify which consciousness belongs to a function, if Our comprehension about them is questionable. Although Jung has written what he has understood about the functions nature consciousness and unconsciousness, it is not impossible that he may have something undiscovered about it. He himself only experience four functions to learn the functions from himself. Jung description of extroverted feeler in particular may be the best among the others, probably because it is one of the functions that he has at his stack. He must have learnt other functions from others, probably from his patients. I don't think this is an easy task even for him. I think I can learn more about the function on my own, if the function is available at my stack. But for functions that are not available, If I am interested, I can only learn from others. Other psychologist may have discovered more of the nature of each functions than Jung's.

You do use them.
Oh really How could you be so sure?
If i didn't use Si, i wouldn't be able to know that, as i stated before, i have to avoid putting my hand in the fire. I know it burns, so i won't do that. That's pretty much Si. I wouldn't know that fire is called "fire". I wouldn't know what "burning" is. And i wouldn't even know what "burning" feels like or what is heat, or actually perceive any sensory information if i didn't have Se in the first place.

That is very Si:learning from past experience, observation, scientific, experimentation, and probably engineering, only carry out the tried and tested. Se -Ti may be behaviorally manifested in spontaneous reactions to a certain sensory stimulus.A reflex movement would a good example of Se primary paired with Ti. An example would be a martial artist who is sparring with another martial artist. He can't possibly know how and from where or aiming at which part his body e.g head, chest, feet, etc, his sparring opponent will attack them, and How: punching, kicking, throwing, but when his opponent does, he will have to respond it spontaneously. Se psyche gather sensory data at the present moment, not from the past, Ti subjectively and adjustedly response it with his own personal movement, which could be a dodge or a parry.

Scientific research is a natural example of Si primary pairing with Te. A good example for this moment would be the confirmed cases of corona virus infection. The data are tallied from past data. However, The data will never reflect the very moment confirmed cases, even though the government keep updating it. The data collector needs time to gather data from hospital, which may cause a lag. Probably they have unreported 1 day ago confirmed cases that hasn't yet collected and presented and published.The data that is stored in memory of news reader may be no longer update as they are reading the report. From the data, statistician can plot the number and can tell whether confirmed cases are increasing or decreasing or reaching plateau.

Presented statistic will be a basis of policy maker to formulate a policy. Now since the number is exponentially increasing in some countries, except China, they want to suppress it making it reach some plateau because of overwhelming concern. How do they do this? They have been implementing and in some countries military has been deployed for enforcing social distancing. In UK, Boris Johnson has announced that they will dispersed crowd. How? I suppose by military force. In Indonesia, Police has been inspecting internet cafes, playstation rental and may probably disperse the crowd. In typology, I identify this as Fe-Si type of policy, since It is instructive and more action oriented like citizen must stay at home, avoid large crowd, gathering, etc and has a health concerning goal to achieve and further could be even militeristically enforcing. There has been a debate of whether a country should lock down or not lock down. On the one hand, the government wants to surpress corona spread among people, slow down the rate of infections, but on the other the economy would get impact if they did. I identify Policy maker that has a natural consideration with Economic impact of Locking Down are Type with Te-Si or Si-Te.


.
But i am an Ni dom, so how's that? It's because i just hate to pay attention to it. I hate having to actually look at the time to see what time it is. I hate to have to actually go look for facts and books if i could just figure the thing that i want to figure out by myself. I perceive it, i realize that it exists. It just annoys me. Because overtime, i developed an affinity for the Ni function. I could explore different possibilities of things that might be good for me (Ne), how would i know what's good for me if i don't go after it? Because i don't want to, because i have something that i envision and that i dedicate my attention to and i don't want to diverge from that (Ni). I recognize that the other parts exist, i just don't want to pay as much attention to them. And i really avoid one in specific, Se, because it is the one that takes me away from my Ni most of the times. You can't really "Ni" if your "Se'ing". And if you really want to "Ni your way through life", having to "Se" sometimes will be annoying as hell. But all of that isn't 100% conscious. I had to really work on this to be able to notice it.
Yeah. This sounds more like an NT argument with Ti.
My inf-Se is getting triggered right now, but let's go look for references lol
"Cognitive disorders are a category of mental health disorders that primarily affect learning, memory, perception, and problem solving, and include amnesia, dementia, and delirium." I got it from here. It's not a scientific paper, but i'm to lazy to go through one right now. If you're willing to find anything more in-depth please let me know, but anyway.
I think that sums it up. I don't think that a lack of se,si,ni,ne can CAUSE dementia. But i think that it's fair to say that if you were to analyze the psychological/behavioral patterns of someone with impaired neurological systems, you'd see a WILD difference in perceiving functions in them in contrast to a neuro-typical human. I think it's safe to say that someone with impaired problem solving doesn't really recognize Ne. Someone with a pathological reckless behavior might not really recognize Ni.
Now let's take a look at delirium.
"Delirium develops rapidly over a short period of time and is characterized by a disturbance in cognition, manifested by confusion, excitement, disorientation, and a clouding of consciousness. Hallucinations and illusions are common, and some individuals may experience acute onset change of consciousness. It is a disorder that makes situational awareness and processing new information very difficult for those diagnosed. It usually has a high rate of onset ranging from minutes to hours and sometimes days, but it does not last for very long, only a few hours to weeks. Delirium can also be accompanied by a shift in attention, mood swings, violent or unordinary behaviors, and hallucinations. It can be caused by a preexisting medical condition. Delirium during a hospital stay can result in a longer stay and more risk of complications and long terms stays" - got it here. You can check for their actual references in the "references" part of the page.
We gotta admit that this sounds like someone who has a lot of trouble recognizing S. But that doesn't mean that every N dom in the world has delirium episodes. Most of them don't. But we can all agree that all of people that actually have pathological delirium episodes have very little access to their sensory functions.

Somewhat. some Those symptoms may have probably occured in me: Dementia if that means kind a memory loss. But I am not sure if I forget some memory, it has to be diagnosed as dementia symptoms.

Let me clarify that the absence of use in these functions cause this type of things. I'm just saying that people that suffer from this, most likely don't have any sort of grasp in some of their perceiving functions at all, if you were to look at it through an Jungian lens. Their cure and treatment lies in the neurological field, of course, but i'm just entertaining what would theoretically happen if you didn't have access to a cognitive function. Meaning that, if someone doesn't really have access to those functions, you might have neurological conditions.
Interesting theory. But I think you should support with example that identify first which sufferer of these psychological conditions do not possess one or some of those psychological function. However, as far as I know, Jung may not have taken a position like this: an absence of a or some of his 8 psychological functions could lead to those conditions. According to him it could lead to some kind of exhaustion, if they forced themselves to. If you do activities without any support from energy of the psychological function, you will get psychologically drained and might further lead to cessation or even quitting of the specific activities.
What i was arguing is that ENTPs do have and use Se.
But when using their S functions, they'd probably be more in touch or more aware of their Si.

I disagree with this. I would say they will never be able to use Se at all. If they try doing what Se types habitually do, for example physical exercise at the level and portion of meritorious athlete, that exercise for competition (mostly ESTP, or ESFP) they will get psychological exhaustion. They (ENTP)won't last in the training that ESFP and ESTP can endure nor that they will be able to response reflexively in sparring. But ENTP could be a good warrior like ESFJ, if balanced
Or at least it would influence their behavior or respond to their unconscious traumas or whatever, more than Se. Because when they want to gather information (or look at it in a objective way, whatever you prefer) they'd use their intuition way more than their senses, due to unconscious preferences. But they do perceive the objective sensory, otherwise they'd probably have the delirium episodes i mentioned above. If they don't, it probably means that they're se users, just not as much as si users probably and, not neeeeear as much as Ne and Ni.
I don't want to give some comment on this.

What you mean is that, the Se function works, however it will never be as psychologically conscious as Si. Did i get this wrong?
No. If you have Si available at your stack, you don't have Se. Vice versa.

I'm not sure. I don't think so. I think that the psychopathic man would use some functions into a "perverse" agenda. And he'd recognize that, he just wouldn't care. That's my opinion at least. I think that psychopaths, for instance, use Fe way better than most people. They identify and play by your values, your feelings and etc so that they can manipulate you. You have to recognize Fe and use it extensively when manipulating someone. Psychopaths do this all the time. So i think that psychopaths, might have a better access to their judging functions maybe, or at least to Fe and Te. But i'm not sure about all 8. I'm not a connoisseur of psychopathic behavior, so it's difficult for me to say.
Interesting opinion.
Oh, i agree with that. You can't.
Not only me.
No one can ever use all of the 8 psychological functions, since four of which are not available at every personality types. You won't be able too.
When going through this post, i'm using all my 4 functions.

Are you sure?. To be sure, You should probably Try pointing out each sentence and associate it with the nature of each functions and its pairing.

I'm aware of only Ni and maaaybe Si right now. I know what i want to say, and how i should say it, what i should reference, etc etc (Ni+Si). But even then, it's not totally conscious. I'm in auto pilot, as everyone is, 90% of the time. That's why it's difficult to type yourself. You're only aware of what you're doing and thinking about very few times. Most of the times, you're not aware of what you're doing. So usually, the perception you have of yourself is all mixed up.
I don't have any comment on this.
I used to think that i was either an ISTP or an ENFP when in actuality, i'm probably an INTJ and maybe an ENTJ. Because if i were to describe myself, i would describe the smaller part of me that i really wanted to come out, or that i really want to be because i identify with it, but it only comes out like 10% of the time. The rest of the time i'm being this arrogant, loner, bossy, know-it -all asshole that get's angry when people don't do things according to the way i think they should, because after all, i know better (Ni), i know what best works for everyone and screw you individuality (Te) and shut up about it. Of course i don't really see myself that way, but this is who i am when i'm in auto-pilot. Which is, most of the time.
Just to clarify, i know i'm not this asshole i just described above, but that would be the closest description to my actual behavior than to the one i thought i had lol
Whatever you may identify yourself as, people may identify you with the other type. However, People may mistype you and you yourself can also mistype yourself. When you and they do, it will be less useful. You may identify yourself as those type, but when you don't really have the energy, you don't utilize the energy anyway, it is like a self deception and may deceive others also. If I were you I'd make sure that identification is useful for at least to solve my own problem within the scope of psychic energy the typology theory mainly discuss .

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What i meant was, that if you want to be by yourself, and i mean, literally, without anyone else, you'll get yourself killed because the human being needs outside help. If you lived in a jungle by yourself, it's way more likely for you to die sooner than someone that lives with a pack of other humans. And that kinda applies to todays life as well. If someone really didn't wanted help from anyone. Friends, family, uber drivers, teachers, doctors, etc. how long do you think that person would last?
Yeah. I agree with this.
 
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whateverr said:
But again, i'm sorry about your mother and this story. Don't want to be insensitive.
Sorry wouldn't mean condolence because she is fine anyway, would it?.
 

whateverr

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Then, How could you say that it was a misconception? .
Perhaps, You should have elaborated/Explain more at which point you think four psychological function stack was wrong (e.g May be you want to explain what you think is wrong with ENTP stack i.e Ne primary paired with Ti auxiliary, Fe tertiary paired with Si inferior is. You stated that we [regardless of personality type] use all of the 8 psychological functions right?, So, the 4 psychological functions stack that constitute personality type of MBTI is wrong, since All of 8 Jungian psychological functions is available at every personality stack in your opinion.

1- I'm a little arrogant, so sometimes i screw up on these situations.
2- let me rephrase, i think that "the stack" is what you have easier access to. Or what you unconsciously prefer to use. Between Ne and Ni, between Si and Se, between Fi and Fe and between Te and Ti. In my case, it's probably Ni, Se, Fi and Te. Then what happens is that you usually have a strong preference between one perceiver and one judger. In my case, i think i'm obviously Ni and i'm not sure about the judger, but i think Te. And then, through out your life, there is always something that you love paying attention to, but it's always a little bit toxic. And i say that, because it's opposite will take you away from that. But it doesn't mean that it isn't important to you. That's why in everyone's lives, there's always something that comes to bite you in the ass without you even noticing it. You don't pay attention to it, because you don't want to abstain from paying attention to the other most comfortable function that makes you feel good. I read somewhere that we're addicted to things that saves us from the things that we don't really want to do. That's where dom and inf functions come in. What don't you want to pay attention to, but you still notice it because it annoys the hell out of you.

Possible.
To identify that you have to understand the nature of each functions and When you realize you are never conscious of anything that a spesific function can be conscious of habitually, you can say that this function is unconscious to you or probably not even available. The problem of unsconscious functions is that they are not always unsconscious, sometimes, they can be conscious. We probably do not recognize how particular function is manifested.
However to do so, we have to familiarize ourselves with the nature of each functions. We won't be able to identify which consciousness belongs to a function, if Our comprehension about them is questionable. Although Jung has written what he has understood about the functions nature consciousness and unconsciousness, it is not impossible that he may have something undiscovered about it. He himself only experience four functions to learn the functions from himself. Jung description of extroverted feeler in particular may be the best among the others, probably because it is one of the functions that he has at his stack. He must have learnt other functions from others, probably from his patients. I don't think this is an easy task even for him. I think I can learn more about the function on my own, if the function is available at my stack. But for functions that are not available, If I am interested, I can only learn from others. Other psychologist may have discovered more of the nature of each functions than Jung's.
It makes sense. Not going to comment on this.

That is very Si:learning from past experience, observation, scientific, experimentation, and probably engineering, only carry out the tried and tested. Se -Ti may be behaviorally manifested in spontaneous reactions to a certain sensory stimulus.A reflex movement would a good example of Se primary paired with Ti. An example would be a martial artist who is sparring with another martial artist. He can't possibly know how and from where or aiming at which part his body e.g head, chest, feet, etc, his sparring opponent will attack them, and How: punching, kicking, throwing, but when his opponent does, he will have to respond it spontaneously. Se psyche gather sensory data at the present moment, not from the past, Ti subjectively and adjustedly response it with his own personal movement, which could be a dodge or a parry.
Yes. That's mainly why i believe that all 8 functions are important to the human being's survival and an overall awareness of being. There are always very important things that are associated with every function. It's not because i have more preference for Fi when it comes to F, that i'm incapable of Fe. I am. I just don't use it as often because when i have to think about the collective, i prefer T. If i'm forced to go by values and feelings, i go Fi. But i'm also not unaware of others emotions and states of being. I can be a little awkward sometimes, INTPs and ISTPs can be very awkward, but they'll never be outright cold. It's hard to see someone outright COLD. That's usually associated with being "mean", violent and 100% insensitive. That can be kinda pathological actually. And i think that 90% of everyone out there has no interest, at least unconsciously, to actually be mean and bad to other people. You can consciously try to be, but most people will end up not doing that.

Scientific research is a natural example of Si primary pairing with Te. A good example for this moment would be the confirmed cases of corona virus infection. The data are tallied from past data. However, The data will never reflect the very moment confirmed cases, even though the government keep updating it. The data collector needs time to gather data from hospital, which may cause a lag. Probably they have unreported 1 day ago confirmed cases that hasn't yet collected and presented and published.The data that is stored in memory of news reader may be no longer update as they are reading the report. From the data, statistician can plot the number and can tell whether confirmed cases are increasing or decreasing or reaching plateau.

Presented statistic will be a basis of policy maker to formulate a policy. Now since the number is exponentially increasing in some countries, except China, they want to suppress it making it reach some plateau because of overwhelming concern. How do they do this? They have been implementing and in some countries military has been deployed for enforcing social distancing. In UK, Boris Johnson has announced that they will dispersed crowd. How? I suppose by military force. In Indonesia, Police has been inspecting internet cafes, playstation rental and may probably disperse the crowd. In typology, I identify this as Fe-Si type of policy, since It is instructive and more action oriented like citizen must stay at home, avoid large crowd, gathering, etc and has a health concerning goal to achieve and further could be even militeristically enforcing. There has been a debate of whether a country should lock down or not lock down. On the one hand, the government wants to surpress corona spread among people, slow down the rate of infections, but on the other the economy would get impact if they did. I identify Policy maker that has a natural consideration with Economic impact of Locking Down are Type with Te-Si or Si-Te.
It makes sense. I do believe that Te-Si/Si-Te types might have an easier (or at least not as draining) time to go about these situations and scenarios.

Yeah. This sounds more like an NT argument with Ti.

Not really. I'm not going about it in a "this works for me" or "i have my own logical reasons". Of course i do have reasons, but it's not what i'm necessarily focused on. That's why i thought i was an ISTP. I always looked at in a Ti dom way. I could be a tert loop of ISTP or INFJ. However, i don't think it is. Because when i take a look at it, the reasons are a bullshit excuse for me to explain it to other people. Because deep down, i don't really want to do other stuff, because i don't feel like it (Fi). But you see, i don't really have a PROBLEM with that. It's just no the first mechanism i go to. Therefore i think i'm not a looper (or jumper, whatever you prefer). I think i'm a traditional INTJ. If i had inf. Fi (to be ENTJ), i'd have a much harder time figuring out my likes and dislikes and other subjective feely stuff. I don't really have that. I just don't jump to it first. So, since i don't have a real hard time with that, i'd guess Te over Fi in the middle. So dom Ni-Te-Fi-Se. Which would really make a lot of sense. But i'm not 100% sure about it yet, so i could be wrong. I don't think so, but i could be.

Somewhat. some Those symptoms may have probably occured in me: Dementia if that means kind a memory loss. But I am not sure if I forget some memory, it has to be diagnosed as dementia symptoms.
Dementia is like Alzheimer's, pal. I don't think you have dementia. Dementia, as far as i know, is defined as a increasing loss of neurological capabilities. A.k.a your neuro system is gradationally stopping to work.

Interesting theory. But I think you should support with example that identify first which sufferer of these psychological conditions do not possess one or some of those psychological function. However, as far as I know, Jung may not have taken a position like this: an absence of a or some of his 8 psychological functions could lead to those conditions. According to him it could lead to some kind of exhaustion, if they forced themselves to. If you do activities without any support from energy of the psychological function, you will get psychologically drained and might further lead to cessation or even quitting of the specific activities.
I don't have any actual evidence, but if you go and take a look at it, i think you'll see my point. But the exhaustion point, it make sense. I agree with that. I think it would be way more draining to use those, rather than the ones you have on the mbti stack. At least in most cases. Vendrah had some interesting research on that, actually. They'd probably disagree with you. But i don't have enough info on the subject so i'm not quite sure how to argue. But i don't think it would be like that in most cases. I think that i have a much easier time using Ti and Ne than Se for instance. I'd rather use Te than Ti, same for Ni to Ne. But it'd be complicated to generalize this point, so idk.

I disagree with this. I would say they will never be able to use Se at all. If they try doing what Se types habitually do, for example physical exercise at the level and portion of meritorious athlete, that exercise for competition (mostly ESTP, or ESFP) they will get psychological exhaustion. They (ENTP)won't last in the training that ESFP and ESTP can endure nor that they will be able to response reflexively in sparring. But ENTP could be a good warrior like ESFJ, if balanced
Yes, i agree with that. I wouldn't necessarily compare Se to physical exercise, but to constantly seek new sensory information all the time would be veeeeery draining to an INTP. As it would be very draining to an ESxP to keep following infinite tangents without actually stopping at one, so that they could go after their sensory information

Whatever you may identify yourself as, people may identify you with the other type. However, People may mistype you and you yourself can also mistype yourself. When you and they do, it will be less useful. You may identify yourself as those type, but when you don't really have the energy, you don't utilize the energy anyway, it is like a self deception and may deceive others also. If I were you I'd make sure that identification is useful for at least to solve my own problem within the scope of psychic energy the typology theory mainly discuss .

Totally agree with this.
 

whateverr

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Sorry wouldn't mean condolence because she is fine anyway, would it?.
I'm not sure. But we're out here discussing these "colder" topics and since i don't know how much you're in touch with this, i didn't want to be insensitive if it affected you, just in case.
 
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