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  1. #1

    Default Is socionics INTp the MBTI INTJ?

    I kinda read a thread on Reddit about it and I'm a bit confused. I scored INTJ-T on every MBTI test I did and then I took the socionics test and got INTp, besides I'm pretty new to MBTI, etc.

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    Magus daemonic Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarandomperson View Post
    I kinda read a thread on Reddit about it and I'm a bit confused. I scored INTJ-T on every MBTI test I did and then I took the socionics test and got INTp, besides I'm pretty new to MBTI, etc.
    J and P are commonly swapped in Socionics, when comparing MBTI. They are totally different theories, both using Jungian cognitive functions iirc.
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    It's not a consistent swap. One way of gauging MBTI type between the two, is if you primarily engage in inductive or deductive logic. MBTI INTJs engage in inductive reasoning and INTPs, in deductive reasoning.

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    Senior Member Froody Blue Gem's Avatar
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    The main functions have the same names, but functions between the two systems are quite different. Type conversation is not an automatic thing. Yes, an ILI/INTp INTJ is very possible but it's not an automatic guarantee that an INTJ will be an ILI. Dichotomies, how you personally relate to the socio definitions of the functions, if you relate to the vulnerable functions, can potentially go into it, as well as the type dynamics.
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    There's a degree of subjectivity to these theories that makes it hard to answer. You'll find answers from "they have the same core theory, but different understanding" to "they are completely different" to "they are the same, but explain the core theory wrong".



    I guess to truly answer your question, I'd ask "What is your goal and motivation for knowing the answer?" Then maybe you can find the option that suits you best.

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    Senior Member Tengri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarandomperson View Post
    I kinda read a thread on Reddit about it and I'm a bit confused. I scored INTJ-T on every MBTI test I did and then I took the socionics test and got INTp, besides I'm pretty new to MBTI, etc.
    The judging/perceiving dichotomy only loosely correlates with Reinin's judicious/decisive dichotomy, and depends largely on quadras and other intertype relation. While type descriptions tend to be mostly meaningless in Kiersey and MBTI, they are fairly helpful with determining sociotypes. But like the latter two, your overall preference determines which type you value the most. For reference:

    Judicious
    Natural state is relaxed.
    Work best when they can relax beforehand, and are mobilized only for the duration necessary.
    Have an easy time going from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed', but not from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized'. Thus, they may need external stimuli to become mobilized.
    Tend to divide up matters into smaller stages during which they are mobilized, relaxing between each stage.
    Become aware of their own mobilization as soon as it manifests – i.e., as soon as they start considering an action. However, they are often poorly aware of the periods of maximal mobilization – i.e., the time of action.
    Focuses and places the most importance on the preparatory stage – the 'action' stages are considered implicit and given less attention.
    Consider their working conditions (e.g., comfort, freedom, and convenience) more important than the possible results and rewards (e.g., how much they are paid)
    This attitude is strengthened by introversion.
    More aware of when they are mobilized than when they are relaxed.
    "Consideration is very nice, that time during which you still don't have to make a decision. It's even better when it isn't necessary to do anything afterwards."
    Decisive
    Natural state is readiness.
    Work best if they are able to start mobilizing in preparation for what they must do.
    Easily go from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized', but not from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed'. Thus, they may need external stimuli (like a movie) to relax.
    Tend to perform an entire task at once, and to maintain their internal 'readiness' between tasks.
    Become of aware of their own mobilization at its maximals (e.g., when it is time for action). However, they are often poorly aware of when the mobilization firsts manifests; e.g., when they first start considering an action.
    Focuses and places the most importance on taking action “ preparation is considered implicit and given less attention.8
    Consider the possible results and rewards of their work (e.g., how much they are paid) more important than the working conditions (e.g., comfort, freedom, and convenience).
    This attitude is strengthened by extroversion
    More aware of when they are relaxed than when they are mobilized
    "I will not get stuck in the process of consideration; it always ends in a decision being made."

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    First, the concepts these two have of the 'functions' (socionics calls them information elements) are different, but related. Think of them as different takes on roughly the same ideas.

    But on another note, I'd distinguish MBTI's test from the functions theories surrounding -- I'd say socionists generally would call INTJ on the TEST closer to INTj in socionics, but INTJ in the functions sense (NiTe) closer to INTp.

    For what it's worth, I think the INTJ test being ~ INTj is closer to Jung's interpretation, in the sense that I'd say P on the test is more associated to ideas Jung used to characterize irrational types, and J more associated to ideas he used to characterize rational types. However, P~irrational and J~rational is also far from what I'd call a very neat identity or anything.

    It's just I think the J ~ Je and P ~ Ji is not a very good idea. Where it roughly starts off, as far as I can tell, is that P does, all things considered, tend to do their own thing at exclusion of some standardized rule-system, so it's not like it was totally not understandable an association, but still, ultimately where I think this goes wrong is that there's this idea that the IPs (in the dichotomies sense) pursue some internally determined highly structured approach due to Ji....just because they don't pursue an externally determined structure but that's just a fallacy: it's more accurate to say they are overall less structured and more spontaneous on every count.

    It's not that the idea of internally vs externally determined structure is necessarily not an interesting idea (that's separate a debate) -- rather, there's just no reason to think the MBTI test's measured dimensions really track that divide all that closely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarandomperson View Post
    I kinda read a thread on Reddit about it and I'm a bit confused. I scored INTJ-T on every MBTI test I did and then I took the socionics test and got INTp, besides I'm pretty new to MBTI, etc.
    Yes. It is. Socionics use p or j for what type of function thet are leading p for perception function or j for judging function. Myers briggs is straight tj fp uses te fi and tp fj uses fe ti
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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    The MBTI use of J/P as preferred extraverted function rather than dominant function es likely because what's exraverted is useful for interpersonal interaction (where we engage with the outer world, and not just our subjective ego experience), which Myers focused on. Hence, it also came in handy for denoting the Keirsey temperaments and also figure in the Interaction Styles.
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