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  1. #61
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrophagus View Post
    That doesn't mean that Te-doms are exempt from such an ordeal. In fact, I see that as simply the entrepreneur being a poor judge of character instead of it having anything to do with him being an Fe-dom.
    No, he lacks Te. I can't give more details, but he clearly fails on a Te test. And his failure to have Te is causing him to struggle.

    I have seen other Fe using managers fail similarly. It isn't unique.

    I manage people extremely well. I resolve problems, minimize conflict, and calm anger with ease. But I know my blind spots and weak points. Getting a strong ESTJ in support of a Fe using boss is key for Fe user management success.
    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

    “It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. It is clear also that thought is not free if all the arguments on one side of a controversy are perpetually presented as attractively as possible, while the arguments on the other side can only be discovered by diligent search.”

    ― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

  2. #62
    Mastermind Fieldmarshal Sacrophagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    No, he lacks Te. I can't give more details, but he clearly fails on a Te test. And his failure to have Te is causing him to struggle.

    I have seen other Fe using managers fail similarly. It isn't unique.

    I manage people extremely well. I resolve problems, minimize conflict, and calm anger with ease. But I know my blind spots and weak points. Getting a strong ESTJ in support of a Fe using boss is key for Fe user management success.
    As a whole, having different people with different skill sets is primordial. We take into account their input and use it in the decision-making process according to the result that needs to be achieved.

    Te will also fail if it took away the human element. I might try to mimic that at the best of my ability, but it's not compared to someone who's a natural.

    Overall, a complementary relationship in the hierarchy is key.
    الخَيلُ وَاللَيلُ وَالبَيداءُ تَعرِفُني *** وَالسَيفُ وَالرُمحُ وَالقِرطاسُ وَالقَلَمُ
    Swift steeds, dreary nights, and the desolate wasteland, all know me full well
    As do the sword, the spear, the paper and the pen.
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  3. #63
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrophagus View Post
    As a whole, having different people with different skill sets is primordial. We take into account their input and use it in the decision-making process according to the result that needs to be achieved.

    Te will also fail if it took away the human element. I might try to mimic that at the best of my ability, but it's not compared to someone who's a natural.

    Overall, a complementary relationship in the hierarchy is key.
    Exactly. Too Fe and everyone is happy but nothing gets done. Too Te and it is a prison work camp.

    I recently met person who works as a state investigator for discrimination matters. He said the line between a violation and huge fine and safety is short. It mainly comes down to phrases and activities and such that are Fe-ish. He called it simple human decency.
    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

    “It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. It is clear also that thought is not free if all the arguments on one side of a controversy are perpetually presented as attractively as possible, while the arguments on the other side can only be discovered by diligent search.”

    ― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

  4. #64
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    The black and white thinking in this thread is limiting, not productive.
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  5. #65
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Exactly. Too Fe and everyone is happy but nothing gets done. Too Te and it is a prison work camp.

    I recently met person who works as a state investigator for discrimination matters. He said the line between a violation and huge fine and safety is short. It mainly comes down to phrases and activities and such that are Fe-ish. He called it simple human decency.

    I am not sure I agree. Aux Te can evidently be like that, however dominant Te should be observant and physically present enough to realize that this approach may/will not work. If we say that Te is keeping a ship afloat we must compensate for all problems to do it and that includes interpersonal relationships as well. The difference is that Te will do it generally in a much firm and cold-blooded way just to get it done.
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  6. #66
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I would say F personal relationships, T is object relationship; with "social interactions" being looked at more impersonally. I generally go by F=personal; T=IMpersonal. Saying "social interact" might make one think "personal relationship", but people (and the "groups" they make up) are all "things" that can be looked at impersonally. "Hence, Te-Doms are the gods and goddesses of social leadership...no one can read a crowd of people better than them and take leadership of that crowd". That "crowd" is an object, and leading it is the [impersonal] goal.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  7. #67
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I would say F personal relationships, T is object relationship; with "social interactions" being looked at more impersonally. I generally go by F=personal; T=IMpersonal. Saying "social interact" might make one think "personal relationship", but people (and the "groups" they make up) are all "things" that can be looked at impersonally. "Hence, Te-Doms are the gods and goddesses of social leadership...no one can read a crowd of people better than them and take leadership of that crowd". That "crowd" is an object, and leading it is the [impersonal] goal.
    I think the word "relationship", even when we're talking about impersonal objects, suggests Feeling, perhaps Fe specifically.

    As an example, I decided a while ago to do whatever maths problem came to mind, so I could study how INFJs approach mathematics. I immediately wrote down an integral, where the solution was noticing a relationship between different elements of the integral, and hence applying a transformation. Noting the relationship was what I deduced to be the Fe approach to mathematics, whereas the transformation was the Ni (a perspective shift). The Ti came in through deductive logic, and the Se came in by plugging in the original variable - thus undoing the transformation - in order to obtain the final answer.
    the lone star flies alone
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  8. #68
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    While I'm on the subject, from looking into the maths, I would draw it up like this...

    Fe - relationships
    Fi - characteristics
    Ti - deductions
    Te - constructions

    Ni - transformations
    Si - known information
    Ne - projections
    Se - [unsure of a specific term]

    To explain what "projections" means... it's when you go "what if this is the case?" and your mind projects the scenario outwards to see where it will lead. It is related to brainstorming.

    I'm not sure of the term for Se, but it's things like direct applications, visualisations, observations.
    the lone star flies alone

  9. #69
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    When I say "relationships", I mean mechanical "cause and effect" (which doesn't 'care' about our feelings, likes desires, etc. at all). A mother might love, and thus never want to hurt her child, but the physical laws of nature determine that an accident can happen where it happens regardless. Think law of gravity, strong nuclear force and inertia, and how the body is subject to it, and is affected in a fall. All of this is physical matter and energy interacting with each other, and that's what I mean by "relationship". It's all "impersonal"

    I had just come up with single word terms here:
    Taking it again from the top: Root defintions of the functions

    Se: immediacy (objects [instantly] form sense impressions)

    Si: familiarity (sense impressions emanate from subject)

    Ne: implications (objects form their own “big picture”) It’s really an object that implies another object

    Ni: forebodance (big picture emanates from the subject). This carries more of a specific sense of the impression coming from within

    Te: authority (correctness determined by an object)

    Ti: expediency (correctness determined by subject). This has a strong “subjective” element to it, where “efficiency” can be either i or e

    Fe: Fellowship (Sense of “goodness” shared by a group; i.e. “object”)

    Fi: contentedness (Sense of “goodness” within the subject)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  10. #70
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    The Feeling function(s) can still deal with things in scientific terms, it doesn't have to be people/emotion based, it's just that the nature of Feeling is such that it tends to be better than Thinking at dealing with such things (i.e. people/emotions).

    So, the interactions of matter with matter can still be Feeling, if it is viewed in Feeling terms. Fe is useful in chemistry for instance, where there is a focus on attraction/repulsion and chemistry of particular bonds forming or not forming.

    I think of Feeling as more holistic in how it determines its judgements, and Thinking as more component based. As mentioned, this makes Feeling more apt for dealing with people, and Thinking more apt for dealing with objects, but there is crossover.
    the lone star flies alone
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