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View Poll Results: What type are you?

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  1. #21
    幽霊||๏ ɪɴᴀᴄᴛɪᴠᴇ
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Objective in the sense that what each dichotomy represents in the mbti test is very black and white. J is defined as x, y, and z aspects, P is a different set of aspects, it is fairly unambiguous by the definitions themselves what each dichotomy IS.

    Like I said, opinions will vary as to whether these attributes are 'accurate' or truly speak for J or P or whatnot, but if referring to how the majority of the world knows about mbti/type, it's by these very straightforward dichotomies and what traits are associated with each.

    You highly prefer having direction/an established endpoint and don't have any issues completing something you start? OK, by definition that's J. etc.
    Ah okay, I see, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, that is true, people are more synchronized with them. Unfortunately, that does not always imply that people will be clearly one or the other. I'm INP in dichotomies, one E Facet in Step II, borderline on that F/T, and with some J Facets on Step II, but still more T and P overall. I always throw myself off through because I'm definitely not your standard run of the mill INTP stereotype. I'm very emotionally intense (probably due to a bipolar/bpd though), I love emotionally expressing myself artistically and creatively to the point where it's involved in the work I do for a living, I have no problem talking about my feelings (though I don't like experiencing them), I'm an open book, I enjoy analyzing my emotions. I'm still a meme in the sense that I am blind as hell to and struggle to predict or foresee others' emotions, don't like dealing with emotions, etc. but at the end of the day I like exploring a lot of subjective symbolism, abstract symbolic expression, etc. as much as I enjoy researching science and empirical studies on psychology or whatever issues I have going on in my life which leads to personal growth. Online I wear my emotions externally...though that's very opposite of in person. I crave understanding people on a deeper, intimate core level, and I enjoy being understood in the same way. These are more INFP stereotypes...but then I do not base my decisions on peoples' feelings, I do not match the INFP descriptions of being the idealistic romantic, I do not primarily follow a code or value system (I struggle to form any values of my own at all to the point where that is actually something I am attempting to resolve via therapy), I do not understand people or their emotions very easily at all and my approach to doing so is generally more objective, analytical, and blind to their emotions, I prioritize what makes the most logical sense (which generally involves a lot of foresight, examination of trajectory, cause and effect) over everything (and am guilty of even invalidating the emotions of myself and others if they fail to make logical sense)...etc. etc. and I really fit (the more serious) ENTP stereotypes better: challenge the status quo, challenge norms, self-employed, headstrong, etc. So at the end of the day nothing is even a very strong fit in my case. The only thing 10000000000% unquestionable is IN--, and even with as I as I am I'd still sooner by E than S. I relate to N dominance but not the types that offer N Dominance as an option function wise, and on top of that I am fuid in both Ne and Ni but overall more Ne--the only thing available with that is ENTP and I am not an E and do not prioritize Ne over Ti...it's just that I'm more strongly N than T. Lmao. That's the other flaw I see in functions, they arrange things according to strengths, I'd be N Dom probably, while dichotomies allow you to be an INTP with stronger N than T instead of some super-duper T-Dom robot virgin nerd that walks around processing life in binary.

    Also, where I see myself on the T/F spectrum varies, but when I read those type descriptions is where I nope out and go "there's no fucking way I'm an INFP" the most.

  2. #22
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Excellent OP and this discussion seems productive.

    I care about inner and outer harmony, but tend to use avoidance rather than conflict. I don't feel a need to connect with people in general, but value one most meaningful connection and then perhaps a handful of close friends. I've let go of every external system I was raised to value. I find it difficult to evaluate Fi and Fe in myself and others because I find people who seem to have a Fi perspective that is especially personalized and individual, and who don't tend to look at the broad system, that they tend to be more invested in acting on external systems to change other people which seems more extroverted to me. I have an almost complete lack of connection to group value systems (religion, politics, etc.). I do feel I can see the world from the perspective of other individuals, so my perspective is not as individual ego based on self as other people I know. I have discussions with one family member who relates every topic directly to her experience to the point that she sees my mother from the framework of her own mother, if I talk about my relationship values, she needs to argue until they are compatible with hers, etc. Yet, her inability to see it from my perspective implies a lack of that broader perspective. I see she has different values and I have zero desire to change her mind about her mother, her relationships, etc.

    I have a very strong sense of the inner and outer boundary. There is an outer boundary that requires negotiation for people to live in society, so that we have to agree to not steal each other's belongings, or rape and maime each other. Then there is an inner boundary that has nothing to do with anyone else and that is sacred. Trying to control how a person feels about their sense of self, their sense of relationships, etc. seems like a gross violation to me. I will push back hard when people start crossing that boundary. If I'm too intimidated to push back then I get sick when around people like that (and yet most people do it to some degree). For example, I was at a sandwich shop and a couple that were from a different race/culture from the server asked for all the spices. Then when it was my turn I asked for some they had mentioned because it sounded good. The server said how he thought they had used too many spices. This is a perfect example of the absurdity of infringing on others. People get to fix their sandwich any damn way they choose because they are the only one eating it. It is irrelevant to my choice or the server's choice. I didn't say anything to him, but that is why I don't like being around people. They infringe like that so often. I have a mentor who won't call me by the name I use and she has no right to try to control my name or disparage my choice. She has too much power in my life to speak up, but this sort of thing upsets me a great deal about people. There is so much ego entitlement to infringe inside the inner boundary where no one has any business infringing, unless it affect them in some manner.

    So, I tend to lack the ability to speak up, which may be interpreted as seeking harmony. It's true I don't like hassles from people and will analyze a lot before acting because I don't want to have to be harassed by someone by drawing their attention. I was in a dance class with an elderly instructor who had a couple of moments of confusion and direction. There was a snotty woman in the class that kept interrupting to correct the teacher in a way that seemed very disrespectful and made it impossible for me to see which way was what. I saw it as happening in the outer boundary that affects others and not a personal choice. I scolded the snotty woman saying, "that was very distracting!" and I wouldn't back down my glare. The teacher ended up asking me to not attend the Friday classes again when that woman was there. It was a rare moment because I don't usually speak up, but my hesitation is never because I care for people to like me, but it is because I care not to end up in a hassle with people. The snotty woman was a big shot in town, but I don't regret putting her in her place because probably no one ever does, but I've never gone back to that class on any day, and I hope I never see any of the people again.

    Not sure if it relates to Fe or Fi because I think most of what I've said could be framed in either direction.
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  3. #23
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    Ah okay, I see, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, that is true, people are more synchronized with them. Unfortunately, that does not always imply that people will be clearly one or the other. I'm INP in dichotomies, one E Facet in Step II, borderline on that F/T, and with some J Facets on Step II, but still more T and P overall. I always throw myself off through because I'm definitely not your standard run of the mill INTP stereotype. I'm very emotionally intense (probably due to a bipolar/bpd though), I love emotionally expressing myself artistically and creatively to the point where it's involved in the work I do for a living, I have no problem talking about my feelings (though I don't like experiencing them), I'm an open book, I enjoy analyzing my emotions. I'm still a meme in the sense that I am blind as hell to and struggle to predict or foresee others' emotions, don't like dealing with emotions, etc. but at the end of the day I like exploring a lot of subjective symbolism, abstract symbolic expression, etc. as much as I enjoy researching science and empirical studies on psychology or whatever issues I have going on in my life which leads to personal growth. Online I wear my emotions externally...though that's very opposite of in person. I crave understanding people on a deeper, intimate core level, and I enjoy being understood in the same way. These are more INFP stereotypes...but then I do not base my decisions on peoples' feelings, I do not match the INFP descriptions of being the idealistic romantic, I do not primarily follow a code or value system (I struggle to form any values of my own at all to the point where that is actually something I am attempting to resolve via therapy), I do not understand people or their emotions very easily at all and my approach to doing so is generally more objective and blind to their emotions...etc. etc. and I really fit (the more serious) ENTP stereotypes better: challenge the status quo, challenge norms, self-employed, headstrong, etc. So at the end of the day nothing is even a very strong fit in my case. The only thing 10000000000% unquestionable is IN--, and even with as I as I am I'd still sooner by E than S. I relate to N dominance but not the types that offer N Dominance as an option function wise. That's the other flaw I see in functions, they arrange things according to strengths, I'd be N Dom probably, while dichotomies allow you to be an INTP with stronger N than T instead of some super-duper T robot virgin nerd that walks around processing life in binary.
    Well, the nifty thing about dichotomies is that they *should* be used as preferences. We all know of insanely strong P's who have like zero J aspects, and vice versa, and strong N's with zero S, strong S's with zero N, and the same with E/I and T/F. Many of us are probably acquainted with 'strong' versions of every one of the 16 types, such that they are almost a cliche of the description. And I think that is what most people who want to find a type or type others are inevitably trying to follow - but imo there are more 'moderates' out there in one or more aspect than strong. (also I don't know why it isn't emphasized more often that Jung was studying those who were more 'extreme' anyway). In my view too, it is far easier to quantify those I work with as 'super J', 'so S it hurts', 'so N it's painful', 'so P nothing is going to get done', etc. Then there are much more moderate or weak versions of each dichotomy as well - with this, you can have painfully rigid and no-dot-connecting ESFJ's or more flexible intuitive ESFJ's; you can have completely cerebral and almost delusional INJ's and INJ's who take into account reality; ridiculously flighty emo ExFP's or more grounded intellectual ones. IxTJ's who are more generally clueless about emotions or scoff at even factoring them in in the first place, or ones that find value in factoring them in. I think most complaints about various types usually tie to ones with more pronounced preferences.

    I hear you though. I myself would say the only one I am really strong on is the I; then N, then J, then F/T - in terms of dichotomy strengths. (I mean, it's not a matter of my opinion on this; I originally tested as such. People agreeing/disagreeing is what falls to opinion on definitions, how a type is defined and how one goes about determining said type, and 'worth' of said metrics.)
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  4. #24
    幽霊||๏ ɪɴᴀᴄᴛɪᴠᴇ
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Well, the nifty thing about dichotomies is that they *should* be used as preferences. We all know of insanely strong P's who have like zero J aspects, and vice versa, and strong N's with zero S, strong S's with zero N, and the same with E/I and T/F. Many of us are probably acquainted with 'strong' versions of every one of the 16 types, such that they are almost a cliche of the description. And I think that is what most people who want to find a type or type others are inevitably trying to follow - but imo there are more 'moderates' out there in one or more aspect than strong. (also I don't know why it isn't emphasized more often that Jung was studying those who were more 'extreme' anyway). In my view too, it is far easier to quantify those I work with as 'super J', 'so S it hurts', 'so N it's painful', 'so P nothing is going to get done', etc. Then there are much more moderate or weak versions of each dichotomy as well - with this, you can have painfully rigid and no-dot-connecting ESFJ's or more flexible intuitive ESFJ's; you can have completely cerebral and almost delusional INJ's and INJ's who take into account reality; ridiculously flighty emo ExFP's or more grounded intellectual ones. IxTJ's who are more generally clueless about emotions or scoff at even factoring them in in the first place, or ones that find value in factoring them in. I think most complaints about various types usually tie to ones with more pronounced preferences.

    I hear you though. I myself would say the only one I am really strong on is the I; then N, then J, then F/T - in terms of dichotomy strengths.
    Oh...sorry, I edit a lot and sometimes people have already started replying before I finish adding all the final additional thoughts that trickle in. I should really learn to wait longer prior to hitting the submit reply button. Oh well. Anyway...

    Lmao @ So P nothing is going to get done...that's actually a stereotype, Ps in MBTI are described as Pressure Prompted. But I agree that there is more variance than stereotypes allow for.
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  5. #25
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post

    Lmao @ So P nothing is going to get done...that's actually a stereotype, Ps in MBTI are described as Pressure Prompted. But I agree that there is more variance than stereotypes allow for.
    Yeah, I was obviously stereotyping but you understood my point.

    (And I continue editing posts for maybe 5 minutes too! Ha)
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  6. #26
    ∂ιѕgяα¢є∂ ¢σѕмσηαυт Luminous's Avatar
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    I feel like a lot of the stuff being discussed could come down more to enneagram than cognitive function. For instance, valuing harmony. Withdrawing instead of engaging in conflict.

    Really isn't the distinction whether one looks outward or inward first and/or primarily when using the F function? I think part of the problem in discussing this is that we search for examples where the behavior could be the result of either.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    I feel like a lot of the stuff being discussed could come down more to enneagram than cognitive function. For instance, valuing harmony. Withdrawing instead of engaging in conflict.

    Really isn't the distinction whether one looks outward or inward first and/or primarily when using the F function? I think part of the problem in discussing this is that we search for examples where the behavior could be the result of either.
    Agreed. I am Fe dom who prefers the "triple hidden" tritype (359) so if you were to look at my surface behavior, a lot of it doesn't look stereotypically Fe.

    EDIT: Just from a superficial, dichotomous perspective, people often type me as an INTX type and I get compared to my INTJ co-worker the most in my company.

  8. #28
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't know if other fe users identify with this, but one of the things I really like about certain people is that they allow me to experience myself differently than I could without them in the mix. It's not only how they mirror me back to myself, but also that some people are able to put me enough at ease to take more social risks, try new foods, or new experiences. It's not that the core of who I am changes, but there's something about the combination of being with other people and their effect on me that makes it pleasant (or unpleasant) to experience myself in a new way. I suppose that's also why I avoid some people.

    Also, I find it interesting that most fe users do deal in social currency. There is an unspoken expectation of investment or of give and take. If they find themselves only giving, eventually they will become resentful, even though they wouldn't want to demand it. But they kind of expect both parties will try to keep things balanced a bit, unless there are extenuating circumstances.

    They are careful about taking up social room with someone without being invited to do so.

  9. #29
    Fe this! Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    Really isn't the distinction whether one looks outward or inward first and/or primarily when using the F function? I think part of the problem in discussing this is that we search for examples where the behavior could be the result of either.

    How do you mean, exactly?



    I would assume that "using the F function" basically means that the interpersonal world bears a sort of primordial priority in one's attention (regardless of whether it's happening on a conscious level or an unconscious level).

    I have seen explanations for the difference between Fe and Fi as the difference between (respectively) having one's attention primarily on the interpersonal vs. having one's attention lean towards the intrapersonal. And I've read someone state that they think Fe focuses on the space 'between' people, whereas Fi focuses on the space inside oneself. The issue I take with these things is that I don't think it's an either/or issue (or - because both must exist in each person for that person for function amongst others - a matter of 'primarily' one or the other) so much as which direction these two forms of (F oriented) attention moves in a person. Though I do think what's often most visible to others is the direction of movement (i.e. Fe gets perceived as being a focus on the space 'between' people because that's where attention - inasmuch as a thing is 'visible' to others - consistently lands).

    I have said before that I think, for FJs, attention starts in the space within oneself (introverted perception) and moves outward. I think a heightened awareness of the space between people is actually to systematically compensate for the fact that it's not where attention inherently goes. Unexpected happenings in the external interpersonal world are actually taxing to deal with, which is why we get so wound up about (relatively speaking) 'little' things that others are doing that throw a wrench in our day and why we need to know what to expect. Js just aren't very mercurial when it comes to interacting with the external world, because the attentional connection to the external world is actually more tenuous than it is for Ps.

    I've blathered about this before. At length.

    While I do think the rather hyperbolic emphasis that's put on these things has historically rubbed me (and many, many other FJs) the wrong way, so admittedly the whole Fe/Fi shtick is a prickly topic for me, I also know: (1) inasmuch as mbti is an even remotely accurate system to classify different human personality types, I am an INFJ; and (2) so, so many of the things that get said about Fe (don't even get me started about inculcating values from 'the group' ...) are either gross misunderstandings or just flat out not true.

    tl;dr is that I think the catch-all 'interpersonal vs. intrapersonal' distinction for Fe/Fi isn't really a fair or effective illustration of the difference.
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  10. #30
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Consilience View Post
    Agreed. I am Fe dom who prefers the "triple hidden" tritype (359) so if you were to look at my surface behavior, a lot of it doesn't look stereotypically Fe.

    EDIT: Just from a superficial, dichotomous perspective, people often type me as an INTX type and I get compared to my INTJ co-worker the most in my company.
    haha, this reminds me - an INTP acquaintance years ago just assumed I was his type.

    So for me - 'playing up' on certain aspects of myself depending on who I am with or what role/environment I am in -- not in a disingenous way but with the purpose of trying to find common ground with people / 'connect' with people in whatever way I might be able to. Find things in common. He speaks more in this manner or about these sorts of things/philosophical musings? I can totally 'go there' because that's a part of my personality. etc.

    (coworkers in my current job tend to lump me as IxTJ tbh - that's what people who knew about just bare-bones dichotomy came up with months ago when the subject arose)
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