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  1. #1
    Senior Member cacaia's Avatar
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    Default ...Is this "J-ness"?

    Hi, all you forum Js!
    So, I am wondering this about myself....I'm not sure whether I am P or J, and this question might (or might not) help me figure things out a bit more.
    I am disorganized...to a certain extent. But I absolutely HATE seeing clothes, paper, etc on the floor, and the sink piled up with dishes.
    My husband is DEFINITELY a P. He doesn't mind living in a pigsty. He can never find his things, and when he gets things for a project, he rarely puts them back where they belong.
    I can never find my things either, but I have a system (I leave things in a certain spot, and if it's not in that certain spot, I freak out).
    But back to the dishes for a minute. My husband is in charge of the dishes. I gently nudge him to load the dishwasher, and to clear the table after diner. He walks away from the table, leaving everything there, claiming he needs a little break. This drives me nuts.
    He also leaves a mountain of dishes all over the sink, and I nudge and nudge, then I beg, then I downright nag him about cleaning the damn dishes until it drives HIM crazy.
    If I ask or tell my kids or husband to do chores, and if they ignore me, it makes me livid. I never thought of this as J- ness before, and maybe it isn't? Not sure.
    One thing I just realized, though. If I can't somehow control the outcome of something, it makes me depressed or angry....so.
    Are these J traits????? or does this have nothing to do with MBTI?
    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacaia View Post
    Hi, all you forum Js!
    So, I am wondering this about myself....I'm not sure whether I am P or J, and this question might (or might not) help me figure things out a bit more.
    I am disorganized...to a certain extent. But I absolutely HATE seeing clothes, paper, etc on the floor, and the sink piled up with dishes.
    My husband is DEFINITELY a P. He doesn't mind living in a pigsty. He can never find his things, and when he gets things for a project, he rarely puts them back where they belong.
    I can never find my things either, but I have a system (I leave things in a certain spot, and if it's not in that certain spot, I freak out).
    But back to the dishes for a minute. My husband is in charge of the dishes. I gently nudge him to load the dishwasher, and to clear the table after diner. He walks away from the table, leaving everything there, claiming he needs a little break. This drives me nuts.
    He also leaves a mountain of dishes all over the sink, and I nudge and nudge, then I beg, then I downright nag him about cleaning the damn dishes until it drives HIM crazy.
    If I ask or tell my kids or husband to do chores, and if they ignore me, it makes me livid. I never thought of this as J- ness before, and maybe it isn't? Not sure.
    One thing I just realized, though. If I can't somehow control the outcome of something, it makes me depressed or angry....so.
    Are these J traits????? or does this have nothing to do with MBTI?
    Thanks in advance!
    I mean...stereotypically I do think it aligns with J tendencies (I identify more as J than P). However there are obviously P's who find cleanliness/organization important, so will put forth effort to do that.

    I would say beyond the dishes thing, your statement of 'if I can't control the outcome......' is FAR more J-like. (J is more comfortable with a defined route/outcome, knowing what's going on, things being more clear, and P is more comfortable crafting something as they go and the process itself being what is illuminating). That's more cognition vs behavior. Behavior can get a little gray when it comes to mbti - though like I said, the trend will be that J's will be more interested and attuned to caring about that stuff.

    Your husband clearly doesn't care/prioritize.

    It might be a losing battle, as in, if he truly doesn't care, he's never going to naturally do it. I lived with my brother for a time, who is also definitely P, and I knew going into it that I found cleanliness/dishes/things like that more important than he did. As such, I struck a bargain early on with him, just basically acknowledging that I understood this difference (meaning: if he lived on his own, he'd do it when he felt like it), and since it mattered more to me I'd do the dishes most of the time, but that when I didn't feel like doing it, and told him point-blank it was his turn, that I expected him to do it. And he was fine with this bargain. I'd say I asked him to do it once a week, on average. (Edit: this paragraph is just a musing/aside - I don't mean to come across rudely or as if I'm trying to give advice - it just reminded me of my past experience).
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #3
    Senior Member cacaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I mean...stereotypically I do think it aligns with J tendencies (I identify more as J than P). However there are obviously P's who find cleanliness/organization important, so will put forth effort to do that.

    I would say beyond the dishes thing, your statement of 'if I can't control the outcome......' is FAR more J-like. (J is more comfortable with a defined route/outcome, knowing what's going on, things being more clear, and P is more comfortable crafting something as they go and the process itself being what is illuminating). That's more cognition vs behavior. Behavior can get a little gray when it comes to mbti - though like I said, the trend will be that J's will be more interested and attuned to caring about that stuff.

    Your husband clearly doesn't care/prioritize.

    It might be a losing battle, as in, if he truly doesn't care, he's never going to naturally do it. I lived with my brother for a time, who is also definitely P, and I knew going into it that I found cleanliness/dishes/things like that more important than he did. As such, I struck a bargain early on with him, just basically acknowledging that I understood this difference (meaning: if he lived on his own, he'd do it when he felt like it), and since it mattered more to me I'd do the dishes most of the time, but that when I didn't feel like doing it, and told him point-blank it was his turn, that I expected him to do it. And he was fine with this bargain. I'd say I asked him to do it once a week, on average. (Edit: this paragraph is just a musing/aside - I don't mean to come across rudely or as if I'm trying to give advice - it just reminded me of my past experience).
    Not rude at all.. I would do the same in your place
    Thanks- I will try this resolution- I always kick myself when I lose it with him, because now I know he won't do the dishes out of spite LOL too bad, because he has a very precise way of putting the dishes into the machine- now he's going to have to deal with my putting plates wherever just so it can be done faster (Ire- I cram things in there, and he, out of logic but also respect for the actual machine, places things as they were designed to fit). Lol, we're hilarious together!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacaia View Post
    Hi, all you forum Js! So, I am wondering this about myself....I'm not sure whether I am P or J, and this question might (or might not) help me figure things out a bit more. I am disorganized...to a certain extent. But I absolutely HATE seeing clothes, paper, etc on the floor, and the sink piled up with dishes. My husband is DEFINITELY a P. He doesn't mind living in a pigsty. He can never find his things, and when he gets things for a project, he rarely puts them back where they belong. I can never find my things either, but I have a system (I leave things in a certain spot, and if it's not in that certain spot, I freak out). But back to the dishes for a minute. My husband is in charge of the dishes. I gently nudge him to load the dishwasher, and to clear the table after diner. He walks away from the table, leaving everything there, claiming he needs a little break. This drives me nuts. He also leaves a mountain of dishes all over the sink, and I nudge and nudge, then I beg, then I downright nag him about cleaning the damn dishes until it drives HIM crazy. If I ask or tell my kids or husband to do chores, and if they ignore me, it makes me livid. I never thought of this as J- ness before, and maybe it isn't? Not sure. One thing I just realized, though. If I can't somehow control the outcome of something, it makes me depressed or angry....so. Are these J traits????? or does this have nothing to do with MBTI? Thanks in advance!
    Or OCD/unhappy INTP...so either J or INTP

    If you think they are too lazy its J, if you think they are to stupid its P.

  5. #5
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I don't think it has anything to do with potentially being a J. I'm one the messiest people I know, and yet I'm a J.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  6. #6
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacaia View Post
    Hi, all you forum Js!
    So, I am wondering this about myself....I'm not sure whether I am P or J, and this question might (or might not) help me figure things out a bit more.
    I am disorganized...to a certain extent. But I absolutely HATE seeing clothes, paper, etc on the floor, and the sink piled up with dishes.
    My husband is DEFINITELY a P. He doesn't mind living in a pigsty. He can never find his things, and when he gets things for a project, he rarely puts them back where they belong.
    I can never find my things either, but I have a system (I leave things in a certain spot, and if it's not in that certain spot, I freak out).
    But back to the dishes for a minute. My husband is in charge of the dishes. I gently nudge him to load the dishwasher, and to clear the table after diner. He walks away from the table, leaving everything there, claiming he needs a little break. This drives me nuts.
    He also leaves a mountain of dishes all over the sink, and I nudge and nudge, then I beg, then I downright nag him about cleaning the damn dishes until it drives HIM crazy.
    If I ask or tell my kids or husband to do chores, and if they ignore me, it makes me livid. I never thought of this as J- ness before, and maybe it isn't? Not sure.
    One thing I just realized, though. If I can't somehow control the outcome of something, it makes me depressed or angry....so.
    Are these J traits????? or does this have nothing to do with MBTI?
    Thanks in advance!
    It's both S and J. NJs I believe are more oriented towards organizing (J) what their intuition is perceiving (N). SJs on the other hand are more oriented towards organizing (J) what their senses (S) are perceiving.

    Needing to have clothes sorted out and paper sorted out etc and cleaning the dishes so they don't pile up etc is S+J all the way.
    Having a little system ie certain places you put things etc is J, freaking out over this is J. But this is a system for S things, your stuff, it's J but not N.

    Your husband opposes you on two fronts, both his N v your S and his P v your J so these kinds of things are bound to happen, leaving dishes everywhere etc is both N and P, it's disrespecting the sensory (S) and it's not-having-things-organised-as-a-priority (P).

    With the kids it's probably just the usual business parents deal with from kids, a lot of kids don't listen for whatever reason and regardless of your MBTI preferences, that'll irritate you eventually, no matter how cool-headed you are, might take minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, but there'll come a time when it'll get to you.

    Freaking out over not being able to control the outcome of things can be both S and J, S has lower N which in theory means S types aren't as comfortable with the unknown (N can be perceived as unknown, S can be perceived as known) and J types are orderly and organised etc all that so if you freak out about not being able to control the unknown, it says SJ to me in dichotomy.
    Compare this to your NP husband who is probably okay with not knowing everything (N - comfortable with unknowns) and P (won't freak out if he can't control everything). Husband is probably able to keep more cool, calm and collected than you as an SJ (from this post only and in my opinion only, I realise you don't type as an N atm) and we haven't even considered T/F.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with potentially being a J. I'm one the messiest people I know, and yet I'm a J.
    Could make sense if you're an N but you literally have to pick tidy/organised/orderly results to actually return a J in dichotomy so consider me sceptical for obvious reasons.

  7. #7
    Senior Member cacaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turi View Post
    It's both S and J. NJs I believe are more oriented towards organizing (J) what their intuition is perceiving (N). SJs on the other hand are more oriented towards organizing (J) what their senses (S) are perceiving.

    Needing to have clothes sorted out and paper sorted out etc and cleaning the dishes so they don't pile up etc is S+J all the way.
    Having a little system ie certain places you put things etc is J, freaking out over this is J. But this is a system for S things, your stuff, it's J but not N.

    Your husband opposes you on two fronts, both his N v your S and his P v your J so these kinds of things are bound to happen, leaving dishes everywhere etc is both N and P, it's disrespecting the sensory (S) and it's not-having-things-organised-as-a-priority (P).

    With the kids it's probably just the usual business parents deal with from kids, a lot of kids don't listen for whatever reason and regardless of your MBTI preferences, that'll irritate you eventually, no matter how cool-headed you are, might take minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, but there'll come a time when it'll get to you.

    Freaking out over not being able to control the outcome of things can be both S and J, S has lower N which in theory means S types aren't as comfortable with the unknown (N can be perceived as unknown, S can be perceived as known) and J types are orderly and organised etc all that so if you freak out about not being able to control the unknown, it says SJ to me in dichotomy.
    Compare this to your NP husband who is probably okay with not knowing everything (N - comfortable with unknowns) and P (won't freak out if he can't control everything). Husband is probably able to keep more cool, calm and collected than you as an SJ (from this post only and in my opinion only, I realise you don't type as an N atm) and we haven't even considered T/F.



    Could make sense if you're an N but you literally have to pick tidy/organised/orderly results to actually return a J in dichotomy so consider me sceptical for obvious reasons.
    So you mean it's Se. I have inferior Se which probably is why I freak out about my husband having to do it instead of rolling up my sleeves and doing it myself???? My mom, who is an ESTJ, just tells me, "why don't you do it all, then?" And I go, "pppft". Nope. We strive to be equal he and I, even when it comes to the chores. I end up doing way more than he does, and I resent it.TBH, I'm not that keen on doing dishes either, but it's just something that needs to be done. It could be a cultural thing, too. In my culture, it's gross and disrespectful to leave dishes piled up. It does not please the gods!

  8. #8
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turi
    Could make sense if you're an N but you literally have to pick tidy/organised/orderly results to actually return a J in dichotomy so consider me sceptical for obvious reasons.
    I always score J on tests, and I am, in fact, a J. I just don't organize things unless there's actually a reason to do so. There usually isn't.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #9
    Senior Member cacaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I always score J on tests, and I am, in fact, a J. I just don't organize things unless there's actually a reason to do so. There usually isn't.
    Ugh, the more I think about it, the more it makes me think that I just need to have some control of the indomitable. My house is organized in some rooms, and disorganized in others, and for some reason (ahem, mom's Jness rubbing on me, maybe?) the dishes are what bothers me the most.

  10. #10

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    Sounds like J to me... J's like order and structure and closure to things., and so hate to see things looking messy, chaotic and looking like they'll never get done.

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