User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 68

  1. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with potentially being a J. I'm one the messiest people I know, and yet I'm a J.
    That might have something to do with the strength of your preference (i.e J-ness) as well..

  2. #12
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cacaia View Post
    So you mean it's Se. I have inferior Se which probably is why I freak out about my husband having to do it instead of rolling up my sleeves and doing it myself???? My mom, who is an ESTJ, just tells me, "why don't you do it all, then?" And I go, "pppft". Nope. We strive to be equal he and I, even when it comes to the chores. I end up doing way more than he does, and I resent it.TBH, I'm not that keen on doing dishes either, but it's just something that needs to be done. It could be a cultural thing, too. In my culture, it's gross and disrespectful to leave dishes piled up. It does not please the gods!
    Nowhere did I "mean it's Se". I know you suggest you have "inferior Se" and this is an easy way for supposed N dominants on the internet to justify their Sensation clearly being preferred above Intuition, you can do all the S stuff and just say "it's my inferior function so that's why". I don't know many N types that even notice the mess around the house yet alone feel like they're forced into actually doing something about it. I don't know what your culture is and I don't believe in "gods" so this point is lost on me.

    Of course you resent doing more than he does, it's not fair, the relationship feels uneven from your perspective because you're putting all the focus into what you think is important (S) and he isn't (not an S), so he's in a sense disrespecting what you think is important (needs to be done). To him, it probably doesn't need to be done when you do it, or as often as you'd like it done etc because it's not a priority (because again, not S). He probably feels the same way, when you're trying to go all SJ on him and trying to get things done that you think is important, he's probably thinking this is disrespecting and treading on his NP preferences to some extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I always score J on tests, and I am, in fact, a J. I just don't organize things unless there's actually a reason to do so. There usually isn't.
    Oh okay, can you please link me to a dichotomy test where I can select all of the disorderly, disorganised and untidy options and still return a "J"? I've got to see this. I'm going to be so J it'll blow your mind. Wait until you see how J I am, with my strong P preference.

  3. #13
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    451 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp Ni
    Posts
    1,940

    Default

    From the Myers and Briggs Foundation, on Judging:
    The following statements generally apply to me:
    I like to have things decided.
    I appear to be task oriented.
    I like to make lists of things to do.
    I like to get my work done before playing.
    I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
    Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.
    Nowhere in that list does it say anything about Judging types being driven to tidy their environment.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]
    Likes Jaguar liked this post

  4. #14
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    From the Myers and Briggs Foundation, on Judging:
    Nowhere in that list does it say anything about Judging types being driven to tidy their environment.
    It's probably all implied, ie the 'Work before Play' statement.
    -----------------------------------------------

    But yeah. Speaking of my own experience, my two SJ parents were /are very keen on keeping on top of all of that, I grew up with them having a nightly ritual of dish washing and all of that. At least in previous generations, I'd say SJ would in fact be the J's who were most driven and preoccupied to keep on top of this stuff. However I have serious doubts that new generations of SJ's will hold the same values or will even necessarily pay as much attention to it. Just a theory though.

    Compared to my two parents, I'm significantly messier and don't rigidly keep on top of things. Using dishes as an example, sometimes I'll allow dishes to pile up in the sink for a few days, sometimes I do them right away; it just depends. My brother otoh could live in a vat of filth and probably wouldn't care. To me it all falls on a sliding scale and this stuff can get lost in the convo --- one persons' 'organized' will fall far short from another persons' idea of that, yet the same two people may be speaking as if they are both organized and then assume the other is referring to it in the exact same way; one persons' cleanliness will fall short of another person who's obsessed with it. etc. That stuff can be lost in the shuffle in convos like this.

    I'd say stereotypically it would fall SJ -> NJ -> SP -> NP as far as most keen awareness/concern of these sorts of practical things to utter obliviousness/lack of care. But, there are certainly NP's who can be quite fastidious. (Re SJ's, I'm speaking again of previous generations - I know no young SJ's at this point). There are plenty of NJ's here on the forum - I'm thinking comments I've seen of NTJ's in particular -- who can't abide messiness and want all of the house stuff kept clean, but they'll hire out other people to do these things for them. I think there's a distinction between awareness and how keyed-into doing things right away one is, too - or in what manner.

    Isn't that funny, I'm writing a novel on the sliding-scale/ potential subjectiveness of dish washing and other practical matters.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    Likes cacaia liked this post

  5. #15
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    From the Myers and Briggs Foundation, on Judging:
    Nowhere in that list does it say anything about Judging types being driven to tidy their environment.
    Let's not pretend that list has anything to do with anything and look directly at the questions you have to answer on the MBTI relating to P/J, shall we?
    Because, you have to answer these to actually get that J result in the first place. I have to note - I do just love how you focused exclusively on the "tidy" aspect, and not on the disorganized or disorderly aspects I mentioned. Very curious.



    So to get that J letter in your type, you've gotta love schedules, planning, being organised, be systematic and orderly (literally one of the options verbatim). No, it doesn't specify being "tidy", this slipped in because the MBTI applies an extroversion to the judging process in J types, they use it to denote Te/Fe. Which of course is intended to mean, they love to organised their external world/environment, tidiness kind of goes hand in hand one would imagine, with someone that supposedly prefers J - but this argument is invalid as this application of functions-in-attitudes is after-the-fact and therefore completely invalid and not supported by any credible research.

    I think I've made my point. You have to select J options to get a J result.

    EDIT: For full transparency, my official MBTI results state INFJ, with J as "Very Likely" (the furthest the P/J spectrum goes in Js favour). I simply recognise that this is complete crap in hindsight and is likely due to some kind of subconscious biasing of the results, as I took the official test after I had knowledge of MBTI. I am saying this because I fell for the same "trick" essentially, I knew I was an introverted intuitive type, and for some reason despite intuition being Perceiving, in introverted types you have to choose J options to reflect a preference for introverted intuition. So it kind of gets warped when you know what your type is but you can't actually get it "right", because the MBTI is all kinds of messed up with it's after-the-fact application of functions-in-attitudes.

    I've since determined that INxP is the best way to indicate preferences for someone that prefers first and foremost, introversion and intuition supported by what I've changed from Feeling to Thinking because I think it's a slightly better fit for me after mulling it all over. I think INTP is the most accurate fit for me, and I intend it to be INTP in dichotomy and to also reflect an introverted intuitive type supported with Thinking. I think some of us get kind of duped into knowing what type we are but struggling with how to properly communicate that, and this creeps into messing with results. I think you might be one of those people. To get a J result you literally have to select the J options. These are not the P options.

  6. #16
    Insane Visionary Kanra13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    xNTP
    Enneagram
    3w4 sx/so
    Socionics
    LIE Ni
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Yeah. The fact you need that external control over things pretty much qualifies. I need control as well, but it is more internal. External is far less important.

    Lol your comment reminds me it's probably like this on the outside.
    "A life that lives without doing anything is the same as a slow death." - Lelouch Vi Britannia

    Alignment: True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral (Rational Neutral - Rebel Neutral)
    House: Slytherin
    ENTP-Ti / Logical

    9w8, 5w4, 3w4 sx/so

    In theory: the wings create a strong 4ish imprint

    How fascinating the mind is.


  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    From the Myers and Briggs Foundation, on Judging: Nowhere in that list does it say anything about Judging types being driven to tidy their environment.
    It's implied. You can infer from the 'task-orientedness' and 'work before play' nature etc that Js will generally be self-driven to complete their work, which might include cleaning the home, washing dishes, before relaxing, unlike Ps- who might prioritize other things before completing tasks within a certain timeline.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    16,630

    Default

    Get a job.
    It wasn't just a puppy.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Get a job.
    Thanks, dude from the Offspring.

  10. #20
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    451 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp Ni
    Posts
    1,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Turi
    Because, you have to answer these to actually get that J result in the first place. I have to note - I do just love how you focused exclusively on the "tidy" aspect, and not on the disorganized or disorderly aspects I mentioned. Very curious.
    I'm slightly at a loss to understand why you quoted those questions. Only one of them could even slightly be construed as having anything to do with messiness (orderly vs. easygoing--which, however, is more about general orderliness than whether you keep your bedroom neat). Remember that "messy" was my original self-descriptor that you responded to by questioning my Jness. "Disorganized" and "disorderly" are your words, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caribelle
    You can infer from the 'task-orientedness' and 'work before play' nature etc that Js will generally be self-driven to complete their work, which might include cleaning the home, washing dishes, before relaxing, unlike Ps- who might prioritize other things before completing tasks within a certain timeline.
    Key word being "might." Not every J puts arranging their belongings in an orderly fashion on their list of work to complete. There are often more important things to be engaged in at a particular moment.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

Similar Threads

  1. [Enne] Type this quote
    By reckaro in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-08-2019, 11:26 PM
  2. [E9] Do you relate to this quote?
    By lue in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-15-2014, 07:34 AM
  3. This quote encapsulates Ne!!!!
    By SillySapienne in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-03-2010, 07:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO