User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 50

  1. #1
    Junior Member Logitechu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    7

    Default Feeling types big gender difference

    All sources I've found of the mbti-population shows that women are over-represented by the feelings types. Especially the NF and SF.

    How come?

    Is it because women are naturally more caring due to their natural maternal instinct? gender-roles are planted into their DNA through thousand years of history?




    My thoughts / why I mention nature:
    Such as myself believe personality is something you are born with, highly genetic with a random factor (probably not 100 %). I mean, gender is random, why can't personality also be. Intelligence is another topic for another day. Human nature and birth is so complex saying it is based on the environment would in my opinion be a big underestimation to the power and complexity of nature and genes. The environment shapes you based on your foundation, not necessarily the foundation itself. However people do mature with age and get influenced in various ways.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    MBTI
    SINE
    Posts
    274

    Default

    Hormones have a major influence....If estrogen is too (high) or too (low) for a male, then emotional outbursts/irrationality tends to follow. You'll notice the pattern when females undergo menopause.... They start to become less nurturing and more logical/cold following hormone dissipation. Feelings and anxiety are interconnected. That is, the most logical/stoic tend to be the most calm whereas the most emotional tend to be highly anxious. Estrogen is connected with anxiety, so it's likely estrogen increases empathy/feeling.....Having high empathy indirectly leads to a higher propensity to worry. Now, females also have to bear children and nuture them, so it makes sense that empathy/feeling would be magnified in the earlier stages of life. Males on the other hand, have to protect the offspring...So, the ability to logically solve problems is key here. Of course, both Males and Females can use sound logic and it doesn't necessarily follow that if you're a feeler, then your ability to use logic is less sound. We adapt over time to our modes of thinking as a function of the environment. Thus, if females are now starting to translate to a more independent domain (working upper level jobs, independence), then the mind will adapt to new incoming stimulus. Now, suppose all males decided to be dependent and stay at home...Then over time, their minds too would adapt to a new scenario of environmental outcomes/situations/stimulus. I've noticed that females (on avg) tends to be better communicators most likely because energy was invested over time for this purpose....Suppose you take a subset of the population and expose them to physical labor for extended period and not permit any communication...It will then follow that their communication skills would dim over time and translate to new generations if the conditions were imposed for long period....The benefit would be that the new generations would be more physically fit/robust given that nourishment was supplied. Now, if females have to invest more time to take care of child, then it should follow that empathy will become more natural or the skills necessary to nuture.

  3. #3
    Senior Member notmyapples's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    386

    Default

    Truthfully, I'm not sure I believe the gap is that large. I think a lot of men and women mistype one way or the other because of unconscious bias, especially if relying solely on dichotomy which is where the data for the most common stats come from. I don't think I've ever met a feeler male who typed themselves as a feeler at first and similarly I see thinker females typed as feelers disproportionately often online when a thinker typing would be much more readily accepted if they were male.

    The idea that women are biologically more caring or empathetic than men in any significant way is itself a concept that is heavily debated upon. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that anxiety is linked with either feeling functions either. For example, the inferior Ne in an ISTJ is a very primary cause for anxiety yet that coexists with them preferring a thinking function. And even if anxiety was a cause for erratic emotion, it would then make sense for most women to have a thinker preference since that would mean their feeling function is less likely to be developed and more likely to exhibit dysfunctional behavior linked to that function.

  4. #4
    A Moment of Madness Ixaerus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/so
    Posts
    2,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hurl3y4456 View Post
    Hormones have a major influence....If estrogen is too (high) or too (low) for a male, then emotional outbursts/irrationality tends to follow. You'll notice the pattern when females undergo menopause.... They start to become less nurturing and more logical/cold following hormone dissipation. Feelings and anxiety are interconnected. That is, the most logical/stoic tend to be the most calm whereas the most emotional tend to be highly anxious. Estrogen is connected with anxiety, so it's likely estrogen increases empathy/feeling.....Having high empathy indirectly leads to a higher propensity to worry. Now, females also have to bear children and nuture them, so it makes sense that empathy/feeling would be magnified in the earlier stages of life. Males on the other hand, have to protect the offspring...So, the ability to logically solve problems is key here. Of course, both Males and Females can use sound logic and it doesn't necessarily follow that if you're a feeler, then your ability to use logic is less sound. We adapt over time to our modes of thinking as a function of the environment. Thus, if females are now starting to translate to a more independent domain (working upper level jobs, independence), then the mind will adapt to new incoming stimulus. Now, suppose all males decided to be dependent and stay at home...Then over time, their minds too would adapt to a new scenario of environmental outcomes/situations/stimulus. I've noticed that females (on avg) tends to be better communicators most likely because energy was invested over time for this purpose....Suppose you take a subset of the population and expose them to physical labor for extended period and not permit any communication...It will then follow that their communication skills would dim over time and translate to new generations if the conditions were imposed for long period....The benefit would be that the new generations would be more physically fit/robust given that nourishment was supplied. Now, if females have to invest more time to take care of child, then it should follow that empathy will become more natural or the skills necessary to nuture.
    I wonder though, does low emotionality automatically correlate to being a thinker? For example, one can recognize their own biases and still pick Thinking over Feeling. There's also the bit about Feeling in general being a values system, positively correlated to but not necessarily meaning a high degree of emotionality. For one, caring for your fellow man is not exclusive to Feelers. High Thinkers break their backs and build careers for their family, for example. Women can pick Thinking over Feeling just as easily even if they were mothers, the ultimate manifestation is the same- care, but in their own ways (Fe, Te, Fi, Ti). I have this impression that your post alludes to empathy and feeling being Feeler, when they are just motivations carried out by whatever functions and do come out in different ways, but at the core is still 'caring' and 'empathy'.

    It is also due to social expectations and how society validates gender expression and presentation, I think. A meek, gentle woman is generally more 'acceptable' than a brash, loud, 'bossy' one. I can see women having to over-explain themselves to be taken more seriously, and likewise I can see Feeler men (especially Fe) adapting to expectations and trying to be tougher and T-like.




    Quote Originally Posted by Logitechu View Post
    Is it because women are naturally more caring due to their natural maternal instinct? gender-roles are planted into their DNA through thousand years of history?
    Because they are (generally) not given shit or told to change for crying or caring.
    Johari ⬥ Nohari | MBTI : iNFi-NiTe | Collage Type Me: 123
    全世界共通の快楽
    Likes notmyapples, Yuu, Luminous liked this post

  5. #5
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Socionics
    Duno None
    Posts
    2,983

    Default

    Ugh. I’ve never been a very emotional person and everyone’s insistence that I needed to be was quit...frustrating to say the least
    Especially since they’d just bitch at me if I ever actully did express anything.
    “ they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

  6. #6

    Default

    People are born and then processed through the social gender grinder.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logitechu View Post
    All sources I've found of the mbti-population shows that women are over-represented by the feelings types. Especially the NF and SF.

    How come?

    Is it because women are naturally more caring due to their natural maternal instinct? gender-roles are planted into their DNA through thousand years of history?




    My thoughts / why I mention nature:
    Such as myself believe personality is something you are born with, highly genetic with a random factor (probably not 100 %). I mean, gender is random, why can't personality also be. Intelligence is another topic for another day. Human nature and birth is so complex saying it is based on the environment would in my opinion be a big underestimation to the power and complexity of nature and genes. The environment shapes you based on your foundation, not necessarily the foundation itself. However people do mature with age and get influenced in various ways.
    Various answers/ways to answer this... One way is that women are, by nature, more social than men. As a survivial strategy, if nothing else; safety in numbers. Isolation was in early times (and still is in certain instances) dangerous for women. Social networks, built and maintained using emotional intelligence, were vital for all early humans but women in particular, and those instincts and survival tactics remain. F types are primarly concerned with the realm of emotion, people, connections... so its no suprise women would type F more. There's probably natural selection at play, with the most social, feeling women living longer happier lives with more offspring.

    [Edit] There may be a social conditioning aspect too, some little girls being encouraged to use their feeling more than is natural... but the reasoning is the same. To enjoy the safety of a social network.
    Last edited by tommyc; 02-25-2019 at 09:58 AM.

  8. #8
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    478 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,331

    Default

    Because the statistics are wrong.
    dead·pan
    /ˈded,pan/
    adjective: deliberately impassive or expressionless.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





  9. #9
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Socionics
    Duno None
    Posts
    2,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    People are born and then processed through the social gender grinder.
    I'd say that I managed to slip through the middle-mostly unscathed.
    “ they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

  10. #10
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    23,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logitechu View Post
    All sources I've found of the mbti-population shows that women are over-represented by the feelings types. Especially the NF and SF.

    How come?

    Is it because women are naturally more caring due to their natural maternal instinct? gender-roles are planted into their DNA through thousand years of history?

    My thoughts / why I mention nature:
    Such as myself believe personality is something you are born with, highly genetic with a random factor (probably not 100 %). I mean, gender is random, why can't personality also be. Intelligence is another topic for another day. Human nature and birth is so complex saying it is based on the environment would in my opinion be a big underestimation to the power and complexity of nature and genes. The environment shapes you based on your foundation, not necessarily the foundation itself. However people do mature with age and get influenced in various ways.
    Most statistics on gender and the T/F dichotomy show significant percentages of each gender - often 40% or more - holding the "opposite" preference. That is a large minority for something that is biologically hard wired. MBTI data are also based on self-reporting, which has been consistently demonstrated to reflect gender bias, especially when preceded by any reference to gender. Even being asked to check a box to indicate whether one is male or female has influenced outcomes, both on self-reported preferences and behavior and also skills tests like math exams. (See Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine for many examples.) Explaining that "women usually do this way on this test and men that way" will further bias results. I wonder, then, how close the self-reported T/F difference is to the margin of error of the survey.

    In my personal experience, which granted is only anecdotal, type has been a much more reliable indicator than gender of how someone will behave and interact. It is certainly the case for me. Gender based assumptions are mostly wrong, while assumptions based on knowing I am INTJ are mostly correct. Best case, of course, is that people don't assume, but approach each person as an individual and get to know who and how they really are.

    Quote Originally Posted by hurl3y4456 View Post
    Hormones have a major influence....If estrogen is too (high) or too (low) for a male, then emotional outbursts/irrationality tends to follow. You'll notice the pattern when females undergo menopause.... They start to become less nurturing and more logical/cold following hormone dissipation. Feelings and anxiety are interconnected. That is, the most logical/stoic tend to be the most calm whereas the most emotional tend to be highly anxious. Estrogen is connected with anxiety, so it's likely estrogen increases empathy/feeling.....Having high empathy indirectly leads to a higher propensity to worry. Now, females also have to bear children and nuture them, so it makes sense that empathy/feeling would be magnified in the earlier stages of life. Males on the other hand, have to protect the offspring...So, the ability to logically solve problems is key here. Of course, both Males and Females can use sound logic and it doesn't necessarily follow that if you're a feeler, then your ability to use logic is less sound. We adapt over time to our modes of thinking as a function of the environment. Thus, if females are now starting to translate to a more independent domain (working upper level jobs, independence), then the mind will adapt to new incoming stimulus. Now, suppose all males decided to be dependent and stay at home...Then over time, their minds too would adapt to a new scenario of environmental outcomes/situations/stimulus. I've noticed that females (on avg) tends to be better communicators most likely because energy was invested over time for this purpose....Suppose you take a subset of the population and expose them to physical labor for extended period and not permit any communication...It will then follow that their communication skills would dim over time and translate to new generations if the conditions were imposed for long period....The benefit would be that the new generations would be more physically fit/robust given that nourishment was supplied. Now, if females have to invest more time to take care of child, then it should follow that empathy will become more natural or the skills necessary to nuture.
    I would question any links between hormones and behavior, to the extent that is based on self-reporting, as described above. Those justifications based on speculations about primitive life cut both ways. A reliance on logic, for instance, would make just as much sense among a sub-population concerned about self-protection and raising the next generation, as it does among those concerned with protection and whatever else one is assigning to males of the species in such a society. Recall also that in most of nature, the fiercest protectors are mothers defending their young. Measured against that standard, the human stereotype is quite unnatural. In any case, learned abilities are not inherited. It takes many generations for genetics to reflect the kind of external pressures that might encourage such adaptation.

    Of course, that might indeed be the case, leading to a second hypothesis about the T/F difference, namely that over the centuries, women have been "bred" for F, and men for T. In a society that values women who exhibit more F-like qualities, F women will be more likely to find mates and reproduce, and similar for T men. That might account for why the difference is as small as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyapples View Post
    Truthfully, I'm not sure I believe the gap is that large. I think a lot of men and women mistype one way or the other because of unconscious bias, especially if relying solely on dichotomy which is where the data for the most common stats come from. I don't think I've ever met a feeler male who typed themselves as a feeler at first and similarly I see thinker females typed as feelers disproportionately often online when a thinker typing would be much more readily accepted if they were male.
    I agree, especially about the bias in self-reporting. You might enjoy the book I referenced above. Men and women are much more alike than they are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    Because the statistics are wrong.
    They certainly do reflect unconscious bias, the influence of which it is near impossible to eliminate. Yes, we know that hormonal distributions in males and females are different in a statistically significant way, but we cannot draw meaningful conclusions about actual behavior because of this bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixaerus View Post
    Because they are (generally) not given shit or told to change for crying or caring.
    Basically, yes. Even cited examples where parents have taken heroic measures to raise children without any gender bias are doing so within a society where such biases are still rampant. The only way to determine with any certainty what truly is hard-wired is to observe behavior and preference in an environment free of any biases or external constraint/coercion. We might be able to arrange such a scenario, but raising a statistically significant sample of children within it for the purposes of scientific study would probably not pass muster before modern research ethics panels, however instructive it would be.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 02-25-2019 at 09:10 AM.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Abcdenfp, notmyapples liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. What does your type and gender mean to you?
    By Vilku in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 07-20-2015, 09:50 PM
  2. What matters more - Type or Gender?
    By highlander in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 134
    Last Post: 12-21-2013, 03:25 AM
  3. Isn't everyone inherently a feeling type?
    By Such Irony in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-05-2011, 04:57 AM
  4. Gender Differences
    By wildcat in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 10-11-2008, 04:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO