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  1. #1
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    Default Belief in Free Will and Type Correlation?

    People's belief (or lack thereof) in free will is something which fascinates me. From my own observations, there seems a correlation between someone's level of sociability and the strength of their belief in free will - indeed very social people are often strongly attached to the idea, and can get highly defensive when questioned on how much control they have over their actions. Those who vigorously defend the notion of free will can also struggle to understand depression ("cant you just think happy thoughts?"), and can be highly resistant to the idea of genetic differences.

    To the point - Im curious if theres a correlation between MBTI type and a belief in free will. I am not arguing for or against free will itself - my views arent fully thought through. But Im interested to see your opinions on it, and then if any patterns emerge. My feelings are that EXXPs very much hate the notion that their actions can be predicted, and that there is no genuine "choice" being made. IXXJs may be more relaxed about the notion. Perhaps its as simple as Extravert vs Introvert, and Judger vs Perceiver.
    Last edited by tommyc; 02-16-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyc View Post
    Those who defend the notion of free will the most also tend not to understand others' depression ("cant you just think happy thoughts?")
    And your evidence for that silly claim is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    And your evidence for that silly claim is?
    Why is it silly? Its based on observation.

    Taking it to the extreme - if you 100% believed you were the author of all your thoughts, depression would not make sense to you. Depression in the sense of unavoidable, oppressive, incessant negative thoughts.

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    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyc View Post
    Why is it silly? Its based on observation.
    Observation of . . . ?

    Taking it to the extreme - if you 100% believed you were the author of all your thoughts, depression would not make sense to you.
    Thank you for that non sequitur. On a side note: The causes of depression are myriad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Observation of . . . ?



    Thank you for that non sequitur. On a side note: The causes of depression are myriad.
    Ok... this wasnt really the point of my post. Anyone can have insight into depression. Thats why I said "tend to".

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Explain nothing. Fine. I'm moving on.

  7. #7
    Senior Member raskol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyc View Post
    To the point - Im curious if theres a correlation between MBTI type and a belief in free will. I am not arguing for or against free will itself - my views arent fully thought through. But Im interested to see how you guys feel about it, and if any patterns emerge. My feelings are that EXXPs very much hate the notion that their actions can be predicted, and that there is no genuine "choice" being made. IXXJs may be more relaxed about the notion. Perhaps its as simple as Extravert vs Introvert, and Judger vs Perceiver.
    The concept of free will is inseparable from our Christian imprimatur, which means that the question ultimately comes down to acceptance of tradition and social norms in Western society at large. As such, it will correlate with Si and Fe users. But the very moment you change the cultural context, it will involve other factors. In other words, it is unrelated to E/I and P/J.

  8. #8
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyc View Post
    Taking it to the extreme - if you 100% believed you were the author of all your thoughts, depression would not make sense to you. Depression in the sense of unavoidable, oppressive, incessant negative thoughts.
    No one can believe things are 100% free because clearly your perception of the colour red of a red object in front of you is not something that you decide, it is just something that happens.

    So people who believe in free will also believe that things can be determined, but people who believe in determinism believe nothing can be free.

    Quote Originally Posted by raskol
    The concept of free will is inseparable from our Christian imprimatur, which means that the question ultimately comes down to acceptance of tradition and social norms in Western society at large. As such, it will correlate with Si and Fe users. But the very moment you change the cultural context, it will involve other factors. In other words, it is unrelated to E/I and P/J.
    What makes you think that free will is a strictly Christian notion? I thought it to be a dilemma arising in any (not literally any) philosophical inquiry.

    --

    What I think about the question:

    I asked the question of whether free will existed once my Ti had activated, so I feel that there may be a correlation between asking the question and having conscious Ti, but as for believing one way or the other I know not.

  9. #9

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    Look into the theory of Locus of Control.

    Locus of control - Wikipedia

  10. #10
    Senior Member raskol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    What makes you think that free will is a strictly Christian notion? I thought it to be a dilemma arising in any (not literally any) philosophical inquiry.
    It is a thoroughly theological concept that loses its meaning once sin is removed from the equation. It had no place in antiquity and is irrelevant outside of a Christian or secular Western context. Free will =/= rational choice.

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