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INFP struggling with ESFJ family member

wildmoon

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I’m an INFP. My youngest sister is an ESFJ and has fully entered her entitled teenage phase – I’m talking shoplifting, graffiti, alcohol, truanting, trying to pierce her own ears and all that kind of stuff. Up until recently I used to be her confidant because I don’t take most of her misbehaviour too seriously. I find it kind of funny, but simultaneously am able to give helpful advice.

But recently she’s started giving me the silent treatment for days at a time and starting fights over literally nothing. Seriously, she started a fight with me because I hesitated for a moment before agreeing to buy her something that she asked me to buy. I agreed without any hassle, I bought the thing, but she didn’t talk to me for two days afterwards. And she kept storming out of rooms whenever I entered them. Like, because I hesitated. Today when I tried to confront her about the silent treatment she launched into denial and accusations that I was making it all up.

Also, most of the fights with her seem to be about food. That's the weirdest thing about it. She constantly expects me to buy her junk food, even when we have plenty of food available. (Just for the record, I do agree to buy it for her 85% of the time. Even though I'm not her caregiver or anything like that.) She often asks me how much food I've eaten. She accuses me of taking more than my fair share, which I don't. (It’s generally her that does that. I actually eat very little. Of course, I wouldn’t bother pointing those things out to her, because live and let live, yo.) And when she believes there's been some sort of unfairness in the distribution of food, it becomes a huge drama.

It’s obviously kind of confusing. So I’m wondering – is it all just a teenage thing? Is it an ESFJ thing? I’ve read that they’re manipulative and like to have control over people, and my sister even verbally confirmed that when she took the MBTI. Are SJ types more sensitive about material needs? Maybe that would explain the food thing.

So what should I do? Withdraw from trying with her for a while, and just wait it out until she gets more mature? Try to repair the friendship, even though I know that she’ll still be like this and that I can’t keep dishing out unwarranted apologies? Or just leave it up to her to make amends, which I know she won’t do? What would you do? I’m so tired, man, people can be so blah. I don’t want to go along with the whole silent treatment thing and just respond in kind. It feels so contrived, and it's also just an awful thing to do. I don't want to stoop to that level. So I have to speak up about it. But people hate that.

Edit: Thanks everyone for the information and advice! Things are still a bit weird and I ended up 'apologising' yesterday lol, but I'll take this stuff on board in the future. I'd like to close this thread now!
 
Last edited:

Yama

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omg if that's the entitled teenage phase i don't think i ever had one i never did any of those things lol!

deffffinitely not an esfj thing.

at all.

if she's acting like a brat then treat her the way she earns it. if she acts like a brat then don't enable her. if she's being 'good' then use positive reinforcement.

and i'm not typing her because i don't know her but i think what you've said about her sounds more stereotypically 'immature sp' than esfj
 

Forever

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sounds like an ESFP :laugh:

Have you considered being an Fe user yourself?

i would imagine a typical ESFJ teenager as either someone who is a super popular girl who never has time for you, or is overly bossy/controlling in the family especially the family morals of what goes on.


haha my parents had it easy with me. I hardly left home unless it was school related and my problem was just playing video games way too much and being emotional once in a great while.

I think ixfj’s tend to be the good and/or easy children of the family
 

wildmoon

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I submitted this thread yesterday but I kind of want to close it now because I'm having doubts that it's type-related at all, lol.

@yama Yeah, she's the first one in my family to have that phase to that extent! It's a bit extreme, ha. And thanks, I'll take those tips on board. It's become a habit for me to just enable people LOL. I feel guilty when I try to stand my ground...?
She actually tested as an ESFP a while ago but related more to the descriptions of Fe and Si, so idk.

@Forever Haha, that's awesome for your parents. And yeah, about the Fe thing, I've wondered if I'm actually an INTP. But I don't have the usual temperament of an INTP. They seem to really not give a heck about things, lol.
What makes you ask, though?
 

Norrsken

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PMS transcends MBTI. :shrug:

Serious answer: Just do your own thing and let her be. She's going through changes and life is becoming scary for her because she's in that awkward in-between realm of childhood and adulthood. It's murky waters and she's walking with hooded demons dubbed body shame and sexual confusion and of course, acne.

...

That still wasn't a really serious answer, wasn't it? My bad. But yeah, teenagers be going through things.
 
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I pierced my own ear when I was a teenager. With a giant sewing needle. Punk rock forever!

Anyway she’s a teenager you’re not too far removed from that time yourself. It’s a storm of emotions and chemicals and figuring out who the hell you are and if that’s who you want to be. Give her some time to try and sort that out. You may not know where she’s coming from right now because she doesn’t either. Keep an eye on her and just be ready to be there for her.
 

Hermit of the Forest

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And yeah, about the Fe thing, I've wondered if I'm actually an INTP. But I don't have the usual temperament of an INTP. They seem to really not give a heck about things, lol.

I'm a INTP 9w1. I assure you many hecks are given. Perhaps too many.
 

LucieCat

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I would call it an ESFJ thing specifically. Honestly, it sounds like behavior anyone could in theory emulate. It might have to do with how crazy puberty is.

I would make sure she has space and time to cool down when angry. That helps a lot of people.

When she is calm, be honest with her. Tell her how her behavior makes you feel and that you would really like a better relationship with her. Do this calmly at a good time. Let her know that you are there for her.

And ESFJs being manipulative is just a stereotype. You have manipulative ESFJs and plenty of non-manipulative ones.

I have noticed that unhealthy Fe can lead to absolute chaos though. I mean any function can when it is unhealthy. I guess I just tend to notice Fe induced chaos more because it's the kind of chaos I can't stand.
 

LucieCat

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omg if that's the entitled teenage phase i don't think i ever had one i never did any of those things lol! deffffinitely not an esfj thing. at all. if she's acting like a brat then treat her the way she earns it. if she acts like a brat then don't enable her. if she's being 'good' then use positive reinforcement. and i'm not typing her because i don't know her but i think what you've said about her sounds more stereotypically 'immature sp' than esfj
Thinking about it, I do agree with you that the description seems seem more stereotypically sp.
Of course, I do not think type is the root cause of the conflict here. That can be attributed to how frankly awful adolescence can be.
 

wildmoon

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Thanks guys! I'll take all that on board. Conflict just freaks me out so I was concerned about it, ha.
 

senza tema

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Don't buy her shit just beause she demands it and definitely stop apologizing for her bad behavior. The food thing is, however, weird and sounds like she feels threatened about not having enough. Do you know why that is? I don't believe type is a useful way of thinking about people but it seems like resource allocation is a psychologically painful area for her and it's worth investigating why that is.

To the extent possible I would recommend hanging out with her and doing fun things together but it's important that you break the pattern of her viewing you as a resource provider or a threat to her getting her fair share. The less your time together is about food, the better.
 
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We INFPs need to start a conversion program for esfjs. We could declare esfj to be a mental disorder and send them to a camp. It'd be like fat camp except for esfjs.....
I would seriously ignore her or tell her to fuck off. Since I'm not a parent or authority figure in her life, there'd be nothing wrong with that. I have my own problems to deal with without making extra
 

ceecee

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What would you do? I’m so tired, man, people can be so blah. I don’t want to go along with the whole silent treatment thing and just respond in kind. It feels so contrived, and it's also just an awful thing to do. I don't want to stoop to that level. So I have to speak up about it. But people hate that.

giphy.gif


Learn how to speak up. It will save you and everyone around you a whole lot of wasted time and pissed off-ness. Yeah yeah I know it's hard. Do it anyway.
 

Tilt

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I’m an INFP. My youngest sister is an ESFJ and has fully entered her entitled teenage phase – I’m talking shoplifting, graffiti, alcohol, truanting, trying to pierce her own ears and all that kind of stuff. Up until recently I used to be her confidant because I don’t take most of her misbehaviour too seriously. I find it kind of funny, but simultaneously am able to give helpful advice.

But recently she’s started giving me the silent treatment for days at a time and starting fights over literally nothing. Seriously, she started a fight with me because I hesitated for a moment before agreeing to buy her something that she asked me to buy. I agreed without any hassle, I bought the thing, but she didn’t talk to me for two days afterwards. And she kept storming out of rooms whenever I entered them. Like, because I hesitated. Today when I tried to confront her about the silent treatment she launched into denial and accusations that I was making it all up.

Also, most of the fights with her seem to be about food. That's the weirdest thing about it. She constantly expects me to buy her junk food, even when we have plenty of food available. (Just for the record, I do agree to buy it for her 85% of the time. Even though I'm not her caregiver or anything like that.) She often asks me how much food I've eaten. She accuses me of taking more than my fair share, which I don't. (It’s generally her that does that. I actually eat very little. Of course, I wouldn’t bother pointing those things out to her, because live and let live, yo.) And when she believes there's been some sort of unfairness in the distribution of food, it becomes a huge drama.

It’s obviously kind of confusing. So I’m wondering – is it all just a teenage thing? Is it an ESFJ thing? I’ve read that they’re manipulative and like to have control over people, and my sister even verbally confirmed that when she took the MBTI. Are SJ types more sensitive about material needs? Maybe that would explain the food thing.

So what should I do? Withdraw from trying with her for a while, and just wait it out until she gets more mature? Try to repair the friendship, even though I know that she’ll still be like this and that I can’t keep dishing out unwarranted apologies? Or just leave it up to her to make amends, which I know she won’t do? What would you do? I’m so tired, man, people can be so blah. I don’t want to go along with the whole silent treatment thing and just respond in kind. It feels so contrived, and it's also just an awful thing to do. I don't want to stoop to that level. So I have to speak up about it. But people hate that.

Was she traumatized or something? I remember when I was younger I used to have weirdness and anxiety around "not having enough food" and scarcity mentality because of early childhood trauma. Also, I subconsciously associated food with positive emotions and love because getting food and treats meant I got positive, undivided attention. Just was curious because we don't really know the background on your sister or family. Other than that, it sounds like she has issues beyond just being a typical teenager.
 

Lark

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This is interesting, I've been told those types are almost exact opposites.

Like I was talking to someone who typed me as ESTJ and they told me that my shadow would be INFP.
 

wildmoon

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Was she traumatized or something? I remember when I was younger I used to have weirdness and anxiety around "not having enough food" and scarcity mentality because of early childhood trauma. Also, I subconsciously associated food with positive emotions and love because getting food and treats meant I got positive, undivided attention. Just was curious because we don't really know the background on your sister or family. Other than that, it sounds like she has issues beyond just being a typical teenager.

Yeah, our mother used to be pretty abusive back in the day and there's a long, multi-generational history of dysfunction on both sides of the family. And I think that around the time she was born, there was a lot of financial uncertainty going on. But wow, after reading about your subconscious association thing I'm almost certain that that's what it is. Thank you for commenting because I would never have thought of it that way.
 

wildmoon

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Learn how to speak up. It will save you and everyone around you a whole lot of wasted time and pissed off-ness. Yeah yeah I know it's hard. Do it anyway.

Lol, yeah, I know.
 

Tilt

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Yeah, our mother used to be pretty abusive back in the day and there's a long, multi-generational history of dysfunction on both sides of the family. And I think that around the time she was born, there was a lot of financial uncertainty going on. But wow, after reading about your subconscious association thing I'm almost certain that that's what it is. Thank you for commenting because I would never have thought of it that way.

That genuinely sucks. I figured there was a compelling reason why you weren't more firm with your boundaries. First of all, it's awesome that you are trying to be there for your sister. A lot of your behaviors seemed like you were trying to make up for the needs that neither of you received by at least filling in some of the deficiencies for your sister. On one hand, you don't want to her feel that she is unsupported, unacknowledged but you also know her behavior is inappropriate. And depending on how much your sister was exposed to the dysfunction, she might revert back to "childlike behaviors" (the age she was most traumatized/affected) when she gets triggered (aka food) because she's not quite ready to process the emotions. Add puberty and hormones and it can create an even more unstable internal environment.

What really helped me was when people showed up when they said they would and being very consistent with me. Science says that you can't just kill off a bad habit but that you need to replace it with another habit because it is all about emotional associations. This means emotions will mostly win out over logic. For example, your sister might see "food with wildmoon" as a special bonding thing or it could be an automatic survival mechanism stemming from her childhood. You could try to replace that with a special activity with her on a consistent basis (weekly, biweekly, or monthly?).

[MENTION=31860]wildmoon[/MENTION]: my adoptive mom is INFP and I consider myself to be a quiet ENFJ. Let's just say it was quite a ride but I finally worked through things. LOL
 

wildmoon

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What really helped me was when people showed up when they said they would and being very consistent with me. Science says that you can't just kill off a bad habit but that you need to replace it with another habit because it is all about emotional associations. This means emotions will mostly win out over logic. For example, your sister might see "food with wildmoon" as a special bonding thing or it could be an automatic survival mechanism stemming from her childhood. You could try to replace that with a special activity with her on a consistent basis (weekly, biweekly, or monthly?).

[MENTION=26163]FutureInProgress[/MENTION] Thank you for understanding! That's a really good idea, I'll try that.
 
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