ISFJ and INFP : bitter sweet to the very end

[dog]

Our I/F commonalities kept our marriage alive for 25 years. Her S/J conflicting with my N/P tortured us for 25 years. . she left last year. Since then, i learned mbti (sorta); she did not. And finally, after a whole year of atoning for my failures, found the crux... .Neither of us knew personality psychology; So we were never able to identify why we had so much pain, failure, drama, conflict etc....i now believe it was the s/j and n/p conflict that we never identified. . in english, i'd say it was about her being hyper-REALTY focused and me being hyper-IDEALISTIC focused. . . we failed to communicate; she was speaking greek, i was speaking german. . of course there were those natural I/F moments together that kept this dysfunctional (codependent?) relationship together so long.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Our I/F commonalities kept our marriage alive for 25 years. Her S/J conflicting with my N/P tortured us for 25 years. . she left last year. Since then, i learned mbti (sorta); she did not. And finally, after a whole year of atoning for my failures, found the crux... .Neither of us knew personality psychology; So we were never able to identify why we had so much pain, failure, drama, conflict etc....i now believe it was the s/j and n/p conflict that we never identified. . in english, i'd say it was about her being hyper-REALTY focused and me being hyper-IDEALISTIC focused. . . we failed to communicate; she was speaking greek, i was speaking german. . of course there were those natural I/F moments together that kept this dysfunctional (codependent?) relationship together so long.

I relate too well to what you wrote. My 20 year marriage is in dangerous waters and communication is our biggest problem, rather our inability to truly understand each other and communicate is the problem.

Hopefully you can find peace now that you have knowledge.

 

[dog]

yes. its so easy to relate NOW..why didnt we find about this stuff earlier? .....so now what? what do i do with her SJ? i know the things that bug her, like my messiness. . do i fight my personality and become organized? or do i build a little cottage on the "back 40"....and that's just one tiny little example....and then there's the possibility that she simply dont want me anymore. . and that's fine too. ugh. so complicated. maybe i just need to find another infp. im tired of conflicts. and then we'll just live happily ever after- in our infp messes. lol

 

[SearchingforPeace]

yes. its so easy to relate NOW..why didnt we find about this stuff earlier? .....so now what? what do i do with her SJ? i know the things that bug her, like my messiness. . do i fight my personality and become organized? or do i build a little cottage on the "back 40"....and that's just one tiny little example....and then there's the possibility that she simply dont want me anymore. . and that's fine too. ugh. so complicated. maybe i just need to find another infp. im tired of conflicts. and then we'll just live happily ever after- in our infp messes. lol

I encountered MBTI in college but didn't look into it more. I had firmly adopted a silly belief that I didn't need to study my mind and that psychology was valid, without ever looking much into it. In truth, I avoided it because I knew down deep I was flawed and needed help, but couldn't accept that.

All we can do is grow and hope for the best, be the best version of ourselves we can be and hope to find someone we can love and live with. We get married before we really know ourselves and pay a step price later on.

 

[RosieJones]

One of my oldest friends is an ISFJ. We grew up next door to each other so saw each other almost every day as kids. We are the sort of friends that do stuff together rather than sit around chatting to each other a lot. We do talk obviously but communication is hard sometimes - remarks are often misunderstood, witty comments missed or just the underlying meaning of what I'm saying she doesn't catch on to as she hears what I say in a different way - a more concrete S way.

She also doesn't always get my Ne humour. I often find humour in the absurdities of a situation or in wordplay whereas she tends to find more slapstick humour funny - humour for example that is about someone embarrassing themselves...can't think how to describe her sense of humour really but it tends to be more obvious humour (sorry this sounds kind of patronising but can't think how else to put it)...it is more about the concrete physicality of a situation...whereas I find humour in the hidden meanings...reading between the lines etc. This leads to a lot of miscommunication - it takes a lot of effort to understand what the other meant so most of the time we don't really bother. We often laugh at one situation but find we are actually laughing for different reasons.

Another thing that is difficult is her underdeveloped Ne making her very wary of new situations or change. My auxiliary Ne means I want to try something new a lot and I don't have much problem with changing the way I do things occasionally if a better method comes along. However as hers is inferior and she has dominant Si she is very stubborn to do anything outside of her comfort zone and can be a little stuck in her ways which does frustrate me occasionally. Say I recommend some new place to visit or a slightly different routine to the one we have originally planned because I found out about something better she is very reluctant to give it a go which is annoying because it feels like she won't compromise.

There is a bit of Ti/Te and Fi/Fe conflict too. Last week both our families went on holiday with each other in a beautiful seaside town. Most of the week she just wanted to sit inside and lounge around on her phone while I wanted to go to the beach. We had all planned to go to the beach (because that was the point of the holiday!) and it nagged at my Te a bit when she wouldn't get a move on and do something with the day. The holiday was pretty expensive and it felt like the days were just slipping away from us. The Fi/Fe can also be a struggle. She is very expressive with her emotions whereas I am not really. She gets very upset and very cross when she is tired or stressed and takes it out on other people. And she places a lot more importance on the group rather than the individual. Like the other day I had a really important exam I had to study for as it was the next day and so did she. It was my last chance to study that night and I really needed all the time I could get. However I had forgot we had planned a barbecue that night with their family. I assumed they would come round at about 7 for dinner (as they live next door) but they came round at 4 while I was studying. I told my ISFJ friend that I was sorry but I couldn't really hang out right now but I would see her later at dinner and she got very upset saying she had an exam the next day and she wasn't studying so I should compromise and not study too and hang out with her. I'm not sure if this is Fe but it seemed like it was as she was saying that if she has compromised by not studying I should too. This really irritated me as this exam was very very important to me and I needed to do well and this time was precious and she was effectively placing her needs to hang out over mine to do well in my exam and her logic was that if she stopped studying to hang out, she was sacrificing something and so I should too. We are both quite conflict avoidant though so I didn't confront her with this but apologised and said I had to work.

Sorry that turned into a huge rant! I haven't really vented this to anyone so I guess it just all came out here. Hmm there was other stuff too but I can't be bothered to write about it. Oh wait one last thing! Her Fe also means she is a lot more self conscious about what others think of her and she is very insecure. She feels inferior to me I think for some reason and so she gets upset when I look nicer than her. The other day she cried because I was wearing a cute dress and she didn't like her outfit and she thought people would think she looked bad when her outfit was totally fine! Oh and I'm also a very private person and I can't trust her with my secrets. I once told her something really embarrassing and told her not to tell anyone and literally five minutes later she told her mum and so I was really upset with her. We were sitting on the sofa and I could see through the corner of my eye she was staring at me and she kept asking 'Are you mad at me, Rosie? Rosie! Are you mad at me??' And I was mad. But I needed a little time to get over the embarrassment and stew for a bit so I just said 'No I'm fine' then she said 'Oh! You're angry with me aren't you!?' And burst into tears and ran away past her mum. I was a guest on their holiday and it looked like I had made her cry so it looked really bad. Then I had to comfort her and falsely tell her I wasn't mad to make her stop crying. I was so annoyed because why should I have to comfort her?? She is the one who betrayed me here! She has this way of appearing like the victim a lot and it does get on my nerves.

However there have been good times. We gossip a lot because we both like doing that - her more. And we find it quite comfortable being around each other - in the way that we like sitting around watching TV and drinking hot chocolates kinda way. We like doing fun things together that we both like like surfing or shopping though communication is hard and there have been a lot of conflicts! This massive comment probably doesn't reflect all ISFJs - just the one I know.

 

[Eluded_One]

One of my oldest friends is an ISFJ. We grew up next door to each other so saw each other almost every day as kids. We are the sort of friends that do stuff together rather than sit around chatting to each other a lot. We do talk obviously but communication is hard sometimes - remarks are often misunderstood, witty comments missed or just the underlying meaning of what I'm saying she doesn't catch on to as she hears what I say in a different way - a more concrete S way.

She also doesn't always get my Ne humour. I often find humour in the absurdities of a situation or in wordplay whereas she tends to find more slapstick humour funny - humour for example that is about someone embarrassing themselves...can't think how to describe her sense of humour really but it tends to be more obvious humour (sorry this sounds kind of patronising but can't think how else to put it)...it is more about the concrete physicality of a situation...whereas I find humour in the hidden meanings...reading between the lines etc. This leads to a lot of miscommunication - it takes a lot of effort to understand what the other meant so most of the time we don't really bother. We often laugh at one situation but find we are actually laughing for different reasons.

Another thing that is difficult is her underdeveloped Ne making her very wary of new situations or change. My auxiliary Ne means I want to try something new a lot and I don't have much problem with changing the way I do things occasionally if a better method comes along. However as hers is inferior and she has dominant Si she is very stubborn to do anything outside of her comfort zone and can be a little stuck in her ways which does frustrate me occasionally. Say I recommend some new place to visit or a slightly different routine to the one we have originally planned because I found out about something better she is very reluctant to give it a go which is annoying because it feels like she won't compromise.

There is a bit of Ti/Te and Fi/Fe conflict too. Last week both our families went on holiday with each other in a beautiful seaside town. Most of the week she just wanted to sit inside and lounge around on her phone while I wanted to go to the beach. We had all planned to go to the beach (because that was the point of the holiday!) and it nagged at my Te a bit when she wouldn't get a move on and do something with the day. The holiday was pretty expensive and it felt like the days were just slipping away from us. The Fi/Fe can also be a struggle. She is very expressive with her emotions whereas I am not really. She gets very upset and very cross when she is tired or stressed and takes it out on other people. And she places a lot more importance on the group rather than the individual. Like the other day I had a really important exam I had to study for as it was the next day and so did she. It was my last chance to study that night and I really needed all the time I could get. However I had forgot we had planned a barbecue that night with their family. I assumed they would come round at about 7 for dinner (as they live next door) but they came round at 4 while I was studying. I told my ISFJ friend that I was sorry but I couldn't really hang out right now but I would see her later at dinner and she got very upset saying she had an exam the next day and she wasn't studying so I should compromise and not study too and hang out with her. I'm not sure if this is Fe but it seemed like it was as she was saying that if she has compromised by not studying I should too. This really irritated me as this exam was very very important to me and I needed to do well and this time was precious and she was effectively placing her needs to hang out over mine to do well in my exam and her logic was that if she stopped studying to hang out, she was sacrificing something and so I should too. We are both quite conflict avoidant though so I didn't confront her with this but apologised and said I had to work.

Sorry that turned into a huge rant! I haven't really vented this to anyone so I guess it just all came out here. Hmm there was other stuff too but I can't be bothered to write about it. Oh wait one last thing! Her Fe also means she is a lot more self conscious about what others think of her and she is very insecure. She feels inferior to me I think for some reason and so she gets upset when I look nicer than her. The other day she cried because I was wearing a cute dress and she didn't like her outfit and she thought people would think she looked bad when her outfit was totally fine! Oh and I'm also a very private person and I can't trust her with my secrets. I once told her something really embarrassing and told her not to tell anyone and literally five minutes later she told her mum and so I was really upset with her. We were sitting on the sofa and I could see through the corner of my eye she was staring at me and she kept asking 'Are you mad at me, Rosie? Rosie! Are you mad at me??' And I was mad. But I needed a little time to get over the embarrassment and stew for a bit so I just said 'No I'm fine' then she said 'Oh! You're angry with me aren't you!?' And burst into tears and ran away past her mum. I was a guest on their holiday and it looked like I had made her cry so it looked really bad. Then I had to comfort her and falsely tell her I wasn't mad to make her stop crying. I was so annoyed because why should I have to comfort her?? She is the one who betrayed me here! She has this way of appearing like the victim a lot and it does get on my nerves.

However there have been good times. We gossip a lot because we both like doing that - her more. And we find it quite comfortable being around each other - in the way that we like sitting around watching TV and drinking hot chocolates kinda way. We like doing fun things together that we both like like surfing or shopping though communication is hard and there have been a lot of conflicts! This massive comment probably doesn't reflect all ISFJs - just the one I know.

Whoa, that's a whole lot of reply for a dead thread. I'm sure many others would love for you to share this story. Why not create a new thread? INFP/ISFJ communication usually ends up awfully and I have witnessed plenty of unusual reactions from them, and I'm sure as well for many other INFP's as well.

 

[RosieJones]

Whoa, that's a whole lot of reply for a dead thread. I'm sure many others would love for you to share this story. Why not create a new thread? INFP/ISFJ communication usually ends up awfully and I have witnessed plenty of unusual reactions from them, and I'm sure as well for many other INFP's as well.

Haha yeah I might do! Guess I've been bottling that up and it just all came out here whoops! Yep We are meant to be a good match but I find it very difficult to understand ISFJs!

 

[Eluded_One]

Haha yeah I might do! Guess I've been bottling that up and it just all came out here whoops! Yep We are meant to be a good match but I find it very difficult to understand ISFJs!

That's funny, I know ISFJ's too well. I have 3 sisters that are ISFJ's. They often call each other shallow. Luckily, I'm the exception and the black sheep, as I'm guilty of many things, but being shallow isn't one of them. I believe you have more insight on ISFJ's than you are admitting.

 

[RosieJones]

That's funny, I know ISFJ's too well. I have 3 sisters that are ISFJ's. They often call each other shallow. Luckily, I'm the exception and the black sheep, as I'm guilty of many things, but being shallow isn't one of them. I believe you have more insight on ISFJ's than you are admitting.

Do you relate to any of my problems in terms of communication? I know ISFJs pretty well - as I said my oldest friend who lives next door to me is one and so is my Granny, who we see often. I have had some communication issues with her too. Just things she says that to her are logical but to me are completely illogical - like the other day she wouldn't let me wear slightly mismatched socks because she thought people would think I was 'neglected'. Huh?? She worries a lot about what other people think of her and notices little details like that that I don't really care about.

 

[Eluded_One]

Do you relate to any of my problems in terms of communication? I know ISFJs pretty well - as I said my oldest friend who lives next door to me is one and so is my Granny, who we see often. I have had some communication issues with her too. Just things she says that to her are logical but to me are completely illogical - like the other day she wouldn't let me wear slightly mismatched socks because she thought people would think I was 'neglected'. Huh?? She worries a lot about what other people think of her and notices little details like that that I don't really care about.

In a way-- I can relate; in a way-- I don't. Outside of my family, the ISFJ's I have known have been generally quiet people and have put an odd moral stance on everything that doesn't concern them. Most of the conversations I have had with them have been more on what they believe is factual and concerning other people (yes, I'm a dude and gossip a little too!) than anything conceptual or involving a remote imagination. I can't speak about all ISFJ's, but all the ones I know, eventually drive the conversations revolving around their image and how people view them- despite them saying they don't care about what people think (such is a cliche for any type or overtly insecure person).

Strangely, I get along better with their "rational" counterpart, the ISTJ, because I don't have to listen to all the cliches that are masked in white lies. Not to mention many ISTJ's are e6's, like myself.

 

[RosieJones]

Yeah I relate to this. The ISFJs I know are very self conscious and obsessed with how others see them. It annoys me a bit sometimes because when we were on holiday recently my ISFJ friend made me take loads of pictures of her casually walking into the sea and then literally spent the whole day deciding which photo to post, editing it and awaiting likes. It annoyed me because we had walked all this way to visit this beautiful beach and she spent the whole time on her phone obsessing about herself. And she kept asking me to take more pictures of her when I just wanted to enjoy the experience we had come all this way for!

She is also quick to be defensive and get offended by things and m ISFJ Granny is very preoccupied making her opinions known about things that are really none of her business.