INTP and ESTJ Relationships

[highlander]

What do you think about relationships between INTPs and ESTJs? The focus of this is really on romantic relationships but it also makes sense to discuss your experience in situations where these two types interact in a significant way – such as friendship, at work, etc.

When it’s working – What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships?
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
- Why are they attracted to each other?
- How to they compliment each other?
- How well do they understand each other and why?
- What are they like together raising children?

When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
- What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
- How can they take each other for granted?
- What happens with things “go wrong” between these two types?

Advice for couples – What recommendations do you have?
- What things should each type do to facilitate better communication?
- What advice do you have for each of the two types?
- If you are an INTP, what advice do you have for the ESTJs?
- If you are an ESTJ, what advice would you have for the INTPs?

 

[BluRoses]

What do you think about relationships between INTPs and ESTJs? The focus of this is really on romantic relationships...

I wanted to say something about this pairing because although I am not either type, two of my close friends are married and are these types (and no one has touched this one).

To sum up what I see after watching these 2 go through a relationship for 5 years: very stable pairing once it gets going. My friends are: ESTJ female and INTP male, in case gender roles are evident.

They both seem to be quite happy overall and I would bet that they will stay married. Main issues I see are that the ESTJ is a little conservative at times for the INTP and that the ESTJ is the dominant one in the relationship. The ESTJ being more dominant is not always a bad thing, in fact, I would say my INTP friend often prefers that, but sometimes he does get walked on a little.

 

[EJCC]

Based on my experience with several INTP friends and (primarily) my INTP dad:

When it's working:

INTPs and ESTJs working together can make for an amazingly effective and efficient team.

Long version: they balance strategy (INTP) and tactics (ESTJ), vision (INTP) and execution (ESTJ). The INTP keeps the ESTJ from barreling into a situation without enough background information, and the ESTJ keeps the INTP on-task, funneling their more spread-out Ti/Ne brainstorming into something more concentrated and direct.

Short version: They're pretty much the nerd/non-nerd shopping team.

(I specify this "teamwork" thing primarily because firstly, it ends up being the way that ESTJs and INTPs end up doing anything together -- planning trips, going shopping, picking a movie to watch, etc. -- and secondly, both ESTJs and INTPs really enjoy that process, when it goes well.)

INTPs and ESTJs can make for fast friends, in my experience, as long as the INTP respects the Te process and the ESTJ respects the Ti process. Besides that, the litmus test is if the ESTJ can loosen up enough around the INTP to show off their tertiary Ne. Otherwise they might be too "uptight" to have a lot of tolerance for the INTP's sense of humor.

When it's not working:

INTPs can be frustrated with ESTJs' tendency to "handle" people, especially when that implies (intentionally or otherwise) a power dynamic in which the ESTJ is perpetually in control. INTPs can feel condescended to in some situations with ESTJs, as if the ESTJ sees them as incapable of doing even the smallest of everyday tasks -- which is a pretty major sore spot for competency-focused INTPs.

ESTJs can be frustrated by the slower and more methodical pace at which INTPs operate -- kind of a "tortoise and the hare" situation -- as well as the "sensotard" tendencies of many INTPs. The ESTJ may end up feeling a lot of resentment towards the INTP, for "making them do all the work" and "not appreciating them for it".

Suggestions:

INTPs, don't take ESTJs personally -- if they say they're doing something for a particular reason, but your instinct tells you that it's a reflection on you somehow, it is very likely not. And if you have concerns, ask them! 99% of the time they are an open book, and are totally fine answering any friendship or relationship questions directly and honestly. Also, let them know every once and a while that you notice all the work they do and appreciate them for it. As was mentioned in the INFP-ESTJ relationship thread, ESTJs are always planning with their friends and loved ones in mind -- whether those plans seem personalized or not.

ESTJs, recognize what you can learn from INTPs. Their pace is slower because they want to be more accurate and deliberate -- not to mention because they actually know how to relax, unlike you. Recognize the things they take personally and the things they don't, and accommodate that. Don't assume that they are immune to being offended, just because they are so slow to anger.

 

[great_bay]

When it’s working – What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships?
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
I think they're compatible partners because their Te lines up with Ti.
- Why are they attracted to each other?
ESFJ and INTP might attractive each other because of their cognitive functions. ESTJ are attractive to Ti and INTP likes Te.
- How to they compliment each other?
They both contrast with a perceive and judging function
- How well do they understand each other and why?
ESTJ and INTP's are straight foward to each other. There's nothing complicated I understand stand about ESTJ's functions.
- What are they like together raising children?
I have no idea. Typical J and P role
When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
I have no idea what challenges they might face.
-What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
Unknown
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
ESTJ's doesn't want to talk about abstract and theoretical problems. INTP might not care about details all that much
- How can they take each other for granted?
INTP doesn't really appreciate Si and ESTJ doesn't want to talk about theory stuff.
- What happens with things “go wrong” between these two types?
I have no idea. Since this is a Supervisor+ Supervise relation, ESTJ might resent INTP for Supervising them. The best thing to get a long is not to point out the Supervise weaknesses.


I also think the biggest downfall is that INTP might not get desired Conversations they can get with ESTJ's. I was at the park sitting down down and the sun was setting. I immediately thought about the the native-american migration 10,000 years ago into North America. How did these people live and what were their lives like? I might not be able to get discussions anything that doesn't go into their introverted sensing.

 

[RandomINTP]

I, as an INTP, that actually has experiences with ESTJs, will state my opinion.
ESTJs are very prejudging and planning.
They are really superficial to the point that I think they have no souls, just a facade.
They're very factual, and laugh at theories, because they think I'm crary, but they're just too stupid to understand them.
They plan their entire life, and are closed to new experiences.
They don't care about deep feelings or thoughts. However: If someone shows their emotions, they care.

In my opinion, the ESTJ is this one guy that bullies you, get the hot chick and earns slightly more money than you.
Unless there are exceptions, I downright hate ESTJs.

 

[great_bay]

ESTJ's, can you indulge in Ne and think of the possibilities and partake in imaginary scenarios?

"What would happened if we decided to incorporate FOXP2 gene into dogs so they can talk?"

 

[Frosty]

I greatly admire ESTJs, I think that they have the practicality and follow through that I really lack and I really am in awe of their anility to manage their time.

I think that ESTJs can help INTPs focus some of their ideas into the real world and help them implement or want to implement them into reality. The ESTJs Ne really does help them understand INTPs to an extent and they are able to think along similarish lines if they try to.

INTPs can be good for ESTJs because they can provide them with new ideas that the ESTJ can take into fruition. The INTP can solve any implicit problems the ESTJ might have and can, as said by others before, help the ESTJ relax.

INTPs are attracted to the finality of Te, while ESTJs might be attracted to the openness of Ti.

it is also a good match because neither type is overly sensitive so no one really has to worry about stepling on any toes.

 

[Qlip]

I greatly admire ESTJs, I think that they have the practicality and follow through that I really lack and I really am in awe of their anility to manage their time.

I think that ESTJs can help INTPs focus some of their ideas into the real world and help them implement or want to implement them into reality. The ESTJs Ne really does help them understand INTPs to an extent and they are able to think along similarish lines if they try to.

INTPs can be good for ESTJs because they can provide them with new ideas that the ESTJ can take into fruition. The INTP can solve any implicit problems the ESTJ might have and can, as said by others before, help the ESTJ relax.

INTPs are attracted to the finality of Te, while ESTJs might be attracted to the openness of Ti.

it is also a good match because neither type is overly sensitive so no one really has to worry about stepling on any toes.

I just can't let the Freudian slip/portmanteau go unheralded.

 

[Frosty]

I just can't let the Freudian slip/portmanteau go unheralded.

Typing is hard...

 

[Qlip]

Typing is hard...

I am not reading that as a mistype at all, but the unconsciously intended combination of the words anal and ability. I can think of many uses for anility.

 

[Frosty]

I deny it ALL!

 

[great_bay]

Based on my experience with several INTP friends and (primarily) my INTP dad:

When it's working:

INTPs and ESTJs working together can make for an amazingly effective and efficient team.

Long version: they balance strategy (INTP) and tactics (ESTJ), vision (INTP) and execution (ESTJ). The INTP keeps the ESTJ from barreling into a situation without enough background information, and the ESTJ keeps the INTP on-task, funneling their more spread-out Ti/Ne brainstorming into something more concentrated and direct.

Short version: They're pretty much the nerd/non-nerd shopping team.

(I specify this "teamwork" thing primarily because firstly, it ends up being the way that ESTJs and INTPs end up doing anything together -- planning trips, going shopping, picking a movie to watch, etc. -- and secondly, both ESTJs and INTPs really enjoy that process, when it goes well.)

INTPs and ESTJs can make for fast friends, in my experience, as long as the INTP respects the Te process and the ESTJ respects the Ti process. Besides that, the litmus test is if the ESTJ can loosen up enough around the INTP to show off their tertiary Ne. Otherwise they might be too "uptight" to have a lot of tolerance for the INTP's sense of humor.

When it's not working:

INTPs can be frustrated with ESTJs' tendency to "handle" people, especially when that implies (intentionally or otherwise) a power dynamic in which the ESTJ is perpetually in control. INTPs can feel condescended to in some situations with ESTJs, as if the ESTJ sees them as incapable of doing even the smallest of everyday tasks -- which is a pretty major sore spot for competency-focused INTPs.

ESTJs can be frustrated by the slower and more methodical pace at which INTPs operate -- kind of a "tortoise and the hare" situation -- as well as the "sensotard" tendencies of many INTPs. The ESTJ may end up feeling a lot of resentment towards the INTP, for "making them do all the work" and "not appreciating them for it".

Suggestions:

INTPs, don't take ESTJs personally -- if they say they're doing something for a particular reason, but your instinct tells you that it's a reflection on you somehow, it is very likely not. And if you have concerns, ask them! 99% of the time they are an open book, and are totally fine answering any friendship or relationship questions directly and honestly. Also, let them know every once and a while that you notice all the work they do and appreciate them for it. As was mentioned in the INFP-ESTJ relationship thread, ESTJs are always planning with their friends and loved ones in mind -- whether those plans seem personalized or not.

ESTJs, recognize what you can learn from INTPs. Their pace is slower because they want to be more accurate and deliberate -- not to mention because they actually know how to relax, unlike you. Recognize the things they take personally and the things they don't, and accommodate that. Don't assume that they are immune to being offended, just because they are so slow to anger.

Thank you EJCC. That was insightful. I'm wondering how interested are you in the abstracts. Are you willing to discuss theoretical physics?

 

[EJCC]

Thank you EJCC. That was insightful. I'm wondering how interested are you in the abstracts. Are you willing to discuss theoretical physics?

No problem, and thank you!

Sometimes when I have conversations with INTPs -- and not every INTP, just the ones who are extroverted enough to feel comfortable taking the lead in intense discussions -- I get frustrated because I lose sight of 1) the point, and 2) the direction, of the conversation. I think that in order for me to enjoy having theoretical/philosophical discussions, I need to know those two things. Even if the topic of the discussion doesn't have a practical purpose, I need to feel like the discussion itself has one, and I need to be in touch with that purpose the entire time. INTPs and other types enjoy those sorts of conversations because they get to flex their intellectual muscle, not just in comprehending the topic -- which is my intellectual focus -- but in directing the conversation and shifting perspectives, taking it in new and interesting directions, and playing devil's advocate. Which is fine as long as I can follow along, and as long as I don't lose patience and interest.

(I should have mentioned this in my first post, but I only just remembered it now. Ah well!)

 

[great_bay]

No problem, and thank you!

Sometimes when I have conversations with INTPs -- and not every INTP, just the ones who are extroverted enough to feel comfortable taking the lead in intense discussions -- I get frustrated because I lose sight of 1) the point, and 2) the direction, of the conversation. I think that in order for me to enjoy having theoretical/philosophical discussions, I need to know those two things. Even if the topic of the discussion doesn't have a practical purpose, I need to feel like the discussion itself has one, and I need to be in touch with that purpose the entire time. INTPs and other types enjoy those sorts of conversations because they get to flex their intellectual muscle, not just in comprehending the topic -- which is my intellectual focus -- but in directing the conversation and shifting perspectives, taking it in new and interesting directions, and playing devil's advocate. Which is fine as long as I can follow along, and as long as I don't lose patience and interest.

(I should have mentioned this in my first post, but I only just remembered it now. Ah well!)

Ok... is that a yes or a no.

 

[EJCC]

Ok... is that a yes or a no.

I can't answer "do ESTJs like talking about theoretical physics" with a yes or no. Nor can I answer "do ESTJs like talking about theory" with a yes or no. It depends on too many things... like the factors I described above.

I will say that most ESTJs need the theory they talk about to have some kind of practical application. But the interpretation of "practical application" can depend heavily on the ESTJ -- making them much more or less likely to enjoy talking about topics like theoretical physics. Or the MBTI.

 

[great_bay]

I can't answer "do ESTJs like talking about theoretical physics" with a yes or no. Nor can I answer "do ESTJs like talking about theory" with a yes or no. It depends on too many things... like the factors I described above.

I will say that most ESTJs need the theory they talk about to have some kind of practical application. But the interpretation of "practical application" can depend heavily on the ESTJ -- making them much more or less likely to enjoy talking about topics like theoretical physics. Or the MBTI.

Not everything has to have a practical application. That doesn't stop many people from playing Call of Duty.

 

[EJCC]

Not everything has to have a practical application. That doesn't stop many people from playing Call of Duty.

Most things DO need to have a practical application, for ESTJs. But like I said, it depends on how you define "practical application". You have to have a leisure activity, or else you'd be working all day and would burn out. So leisure activities (such as Call of Duty) are absolutely necessary for your mental health. So I'd definitely call that "practical".