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The Forehead Kiss

Coriolis

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Just out of curiosity, would you give your life for her if she were committing an act of atrocity such as going to work every day as a guard part of a gulag, to borrow a historical example? I'm curious if your statement is an open declaration with no definite end, like a for loop with no counter in programming, or a broken record that keeps repeating itself because it's scratched, or if on the other hand, it's contingent on your lover being morally sound in the first place.

Please don't tell me you wouldn't have been with them in the first place had they been capable of an atrocious act because human nature is unpredictable and there's no way to reach such a conclusion.
This is like those foolish trolley problems that are so divorced from reality that the forced choices someone makes say very little about them.
 
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Just out of curiosity, would you give your life for her if she were committing an act of atrocity such as going to work every day as a guard part of a gulag, to borrow a historical example? I'm curious if your statement is an open declaration with no definite end, like a for loop with no counter in programming, or a broken record that keeps repeating itself because it's scratched, or if on the other hand, it's contingent on your lover being morally sound in the first place.

Please don't tell me you wouldn't have been with them in the first place had they been capable of an atrocious act because human nature is unpredictable and there's no way to reach such a conclusion.
Well in all honesty, I only really love a woman if she’s willing to brutally torture people for information she already knows they don’t have. If she speaks fluent Russian and has a proclivity for using bamboo skewers in her sessions she receives bonus points.

Do you normally initiate conversations with complete strangers by asking such questions?
 

dunce

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This is like those foolish trolley problems that are so divorced from reality that the forced choices someone makes say very little about them.

Well I could narrow it a bit to be more realistic. For example, would you die for someone if there love was unrequited but they used you for other perks like dealing with their own loneliness?
That is pretty inhumane yet quite common.
 

Firebird 8118

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Well I could narrow it a bit to be more realistic. For example, would you die for someone if there love was unrequited but they used you for other perks like dealing with their own loneliness?
That is pretty inhumane yet quite common.

If I were blind in love and/or blissfully unaware of their true intentions, perhaps. But if I ever found out about such a betrayal, it would shatter me and I’d never look back.

I can forgive a number of things, but not that. My heart is not a toy.
 

dunce

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Well in all honesty, I only really love a woman if she’s willing to brutally torture people for information she already knows they don’t have. If she speaks fluent Russian and has a proclivity for using bamboo skewers in her sessions she receives bonus points.

Do you normally initiate conversations with complete strangers by asking such questions?

I appreciate your humor and answer. It is quite humorous. To answer your question, I do. Perhaps that is why I prefer to say nothing most of the time, because if I did, it would be exactly as I write here. That being said...

I think I probably should narrow it down a bit in order to really get at the heart of my question. Let me put it in another light similar to my response to [MENTION=9811]Corvus[/MENTION]

Would you die for someone whose love was unrequited but they still were with you to use you, such as, for instance, to deal with their loneliness? Of course they wouldn't tell you, in this example, that they were using you and you'd always be in a constant state of wondering if they were any good with their lies. If they were they'd probably keep you feeling loved at least 90 percent of the time to use you the other 10 percent, well under the tipping point of self realization. But if you felt a strong love for that person, would you risk your life for them, or hold out for someone more deserving of your love until you were 100 percent sure? There are a lot of psychopaths out there, after all, who are skilled manipulators, and even though they are subtle and operate within the boundaries of the law, they certainly aren't worthy of such love, for it would result in your own self-detriment and loss of self-love.
 

dunce

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If I were blind in love and/or blissfully unaware of their true intentions, perhaps. But if I ever found out about such a betrayal, it would shatter me and I’d never look back.

I can forgive a number of things, but not that. My heart is not a toy.

So thanks for answering. To connect this back to the subject of the discussion, I don't think a forehead kiss means much at all. What matters most is the intent of someone's heart and a forehead kiss doesn't necessarily reveal this truth.
 

Firebird 8118

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So thanks for answering. To connect this back to the subject of the discussion, I don't think a forehead kiss means much at all. What matters most is the intent of someone's heart and a forehead kiss doesn't necessarily reveal this truth.

Interesting... so, out of genuine curiosity: what do you feel would best help reveal (or at least express) a truly amorous/affectionate intent (if that makes sense :D)?
 
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I appreciate your humor and answer. It is quite humorous. To answer your question, I do. Perhaps that is why I prefer to say nothing most of the time, because if I did, it would be exactly as I write here. That being said...

I think I probably should narrow it down a bit in order to really get at the heart of my question. Let me put it in another light similar to my response to [MENTION=9811]Corvus[/MENTION]

Would you die for someone whose love was unrequited but they still were with you to use you, such as, for instance, to deal with their loneliness? Of course they wouldn't tell you, in this example, that they were using you and you'd always be in a constant state of wondering if they were any good with their lies. If they were they'd probably keep you feeling loved at least 90 percent of the time to use you the other 10 percent, well under the tipping point of self realization. But if you felt a strong love for that person, would you risk your life for them, or hold out for someone more deserving of your love until you were 100 percent sure? There are a lot of psychopaths out there, after all, who are skilled manipulators, and even though they are subtle and operate within the boundaries of the law, they certainly aren't worthy of such love, for it would result in your own self-detriment and loss of self-love.

I’m not a trained psychologist. I’m fairly good at reading people. At least in person that is. Very few people manage to get past my bullshit detector as it has been at work for nearly a half century and I’ve met a lot of bullshitters in that time. I’ve certainly dated a few.

If I’m unaware that my love is unreciprocated than yes I would take a knife, bullet what have you for her. That doesn’t apply to anyone else mind you. If I’m harboring serious doubt I don’t think I’d remain in the relationship but I don’t think anyone can ever be 100% sure of a person’s true nature either. I’m more than capable of existing alone if necessary and have done so for years at a time.

I’m not sure if that yielded a useful answer or not. I suppose that depends on what you had hoped to learn. It’s late and I’m quickly running out of wit.
 

Coriolis

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Well I could narrow it a bit to be more realistic. For example, would you die for someone if there love was unrequited but they used you for other perks like dealing with their own loneliness?
That is pretty inhumane yet quite common.
There are people, e.g. firefighters, who routinely put their lives on the line for random strangers.
 

dunce

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Interesting... so, out of genuine curiosity: what do you feel would best help reveal (or at least express) a truly amorous/affectionate intent (if that makes sense :D)?

A desire to resolve issues. An intelligent yet heartfelt approach to conflict resolution. A genuine concern for the health of the other - do they care about your stress levels? These small but serious, yet boring, things that accrue over time.
 

dunce

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There are people, e.g. firefighters, who routinely put their lives on the line for random strangers.

So I'm generally inclined to agree with you, especially on the west coast where there are ravaging forest first, but most firefighters where I live, given that there are about one two fires in the area a decade, sit around and drink beer, eat pizza, and bring strippers over on holidays. But overall, and historically speaking, before we had buffers against fires, I do get there is something heroic in nature about the profession, in the past, and in certain areas.

That being said, I'm reluctant to eulogize anyone on the basis of their profession. A firefighter who risks his life to save someone but doesn't want to pay child support or alimony or who cheats on his wife is still **** bag if you ask Joe. In the bible it says that god does good deeds through the devil's hands. I take that mythic-poetically to mean that there are no heroes. We are human and perpetually flawed.
 

dunce

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I’m not a trained psychologist. I’m fairly good at reading people. At least in person that is. Very few people manage to get past my bullshit detector as it has been at work for nearly a half century and I’ve met a lot of bullshitters in that time. I’ve certainly dated a few.

If I’m unaware that my love is unreciprocated than yes I would take a knife, bullet what have you for her. That doesn’t apply to anyone else mind you. If I’m harboring serious doubt I don’t think I’d remain in the relationship but I don’t think anyone can ever be 100% sure of a person’s true nature either. I’m more than capable of existing alone if necessary and have done so for years at a time.

I’m not sure if that yielded a useful answer or not. I suppose that depends on what you had hoped to learn. It’s late and I’m quickly running out of wit.

Yes..thank you stranger. My hat is off to you. Half a century? You're still a baby.
 

Coriolis

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So I'm generally inclined to agree with you, especially on the west coast where there are ravaging forest first, but most firefighters where I live, given that there are about one two fires in the area a decade, sit around and drink beer, eat pizza, and bring strippers over on holidays. But overall, and historically speaking, before we had buffers against fires, I do get there is something heroic in nature about the profession, in the past, and in certain areas.

That being said, I'm reluctant to eulogize anyone on the basis of their profession. A firefighter who risks his life to save someone but doesn't want to pay child support or alimony or who cheats on his wife is still **** bag if you ask Joe. In the bible it says that god does good deeds through the devil's hands. I take that mythic-poetically to mean that there are no heroes. We are human and perpetually flawed.
You asked about the willingness of one person to die for another. If these firefighters will risk their lives for another those one or two times a year (I suspect it is more), they fall into that category regardless of what they are doing the rest of the time. It is a question of behavior in a situation, not profession, though certain professions will encounter those situations more often than others. Perhaps every human is capable of what we usually consider heroism under the right conditions.
 

dunce

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Perhaps. I suppose that's what I was getting in painting the picture that I did. They are still vulgar as the rest of us and we are as heroic as they are.
 

Firebird 8118

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Perhaps. I suppose that's what I was getting in painting the picture that I did. They are still vulgar as the rest of us and we are as heroic as they are.

The way I see it is, God (or the Divine, or love, or whatever you want to call it) is always found in both the profane and the profound.

Basically, (most) saints and sinners alike are capable of selfless acts of love.
 
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