• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Getting Ti doms to open up

Northern Lights

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
20
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
I realize that INTPs and ISTPs are never going to be chatty cathys about their feelings but how does one get you guys to reflect on them and communicate them a little more? What are the prerequisites for building up that level of comfort? What actively shuts it down?
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
This is solely about INTPs. Don't chase them. They have to notice you first. Then they'll observe you for a long time, interacting randomly but not often. When after awhile, they'll interact with you more frequently but still randomly until they're sure. Once certain they have a decent grasp of you and your personality, it's full court press time, constantly interacting with you.

Unfortunately, throughout this process, they can change their minds at any time, even during the full court press time.
 

Hermit of the Forest

Greetings humans • Hunting
Staff member
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
5,783
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The sort of people I generally have an easier time opening up to have at least two qualities in common.

1. They’re stable. What I mean by that is I can say what I think/feel and they’re not going to blow up in my face with a negative emotional reaction. They may not agree, but there not super reactive either.

2. They genuinely like me. That’s sounds obvious, but it’s important. If you can drill it in to my thick skull that, yes, you actually enjoy my presence, and no, you’re not just being nice or polite then that goes a long way.

This isn’t an exhaustive list, but it’s a start. Bottom line though, you can’t really get someone to open up to you if for some reason they don’t want to.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
1) They can't stand most people
2) Be someone they can stand
3) Profit


More seriously, my brother is INTP and I'm generally not a very pushy person to begin with, getting used to him and how he works I find really, you just have to let them (Ti-doms in general) independently take interest in you. They need a lot of time to process if something is true for themselves, but they're a bit blinder when it comes to people. Sometimes they would get stuck in the odd pedantic technicalities of what a friendship actually means in some convoluted nitpicky Ti roller coaster. (Please let them process it. They need it. They'll thank you).

Having mutual interests help because they do a lot of what I call 'mental friendship' than physical ones. For example, my brother would talk tons about movies, and another INTP friend of mine about geography, an ISTP I know loves talking about mechanical parts & fixing things, cars, etc. They put intelligence on a pedestal, generally speaking they'll take your ability to keep up and maintain interest as intelligence and open-mindedness (which they value) but tend to not realize, even to themselves, that it's the quality of friendship that they also love (eg; that you care and can listen) even if you're not necessarily interested in the same subjects. I find this especially true for younger Ti-doms. I get told "I don't know why, I just like your presence." Oh, that little inferior Fe.

Lots of them value that 'intellectual spark' they can get with someone more than mushy proclamations of friendship or time spent together, and more than most others enjoy intellectual candidness. Have them enjoy that and they'll fall into that trapdoor called friendship in no time.

There are lots others I can think of but really mostly applies to the younger ones, since by age 20+ a lot of INTP are well-rounded enough to not be as awkward as they were when younger. Also, once they stick, they really stick with you. Once they trust you, I find (though this is in no way 100% true in general), I find that they tend to independently go to you for more emotional / social matters or if they need help with planning / prioritizing stuff (or whatever you are good at that they can rely on). Just gotta get through the gate I mentioned above first. Be a friend. Don't push them. Let them walk in their own path / pace a la Ji-Pe.
 

Snow as White

ƃuıǝǝs | seeing
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
471
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
In my experience it just sort of happens and it’s a surprise or it doesn’t happen which isn’t a surprise. But I also have a face that says. Tell me everything deep and dark about yourself right here in this grocery aisle so ymmv.

Ultimately I think it’s mainly about being patient and leaving the door open in an obvious fashion and seeing what happens. I suspect there’s an element of being observed for a long time that I don’t really notice.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Be honest, especially about yourself to yourself. Hypocrisy and denial are two big turnoffs -- fundamentally dishonest folks cannot be trusted enough to engage. Also, if you seem like you believe a lot of things that aren't true, the information you provide can't be trusted either... so how is there supposed to be a discourse? We'd have to vet everything you say.

Don't create drama or leave Ti folks feeling like you're going to drag them into a morass of emotionalism. The caveat is that if you are fundamentally honest and can admit you create drama, that helps a bit because you're aware of it, so then you can both mediate the impact of that. It reduces the impression that our freedom will be inhibited in some way by you, to either come and go OR to speak our mind without a lot of needless drama. It comes off as dangerous to autonomy, so one stays away.

Be open -- to hearing new ideas but also to talk about deep and/or even personal topics. Everything tends to be rather detached for Ti so we can talk about some things that leave some people feeling uncomfortable. We typically won't push someone to talking about that stuff, but it does leave us with not wanting to approach the boundaries and might lead to some shutdown in communication.

Don't take everything deathly seriously. A lot of stuff in life is both serious and funny due to inherent inconsistencies or weirdness, if you step outside of it. Laughing at something doesn't mean you disrespect it, it just means you can see it from various POVs. Also, don't think a Ti person is disrespecting something by challenging it or laughing about it, sometimes it feels very personal deep inside but also funny and/or it's a way to deal with the seriousness of it.

Try to understand even if you don't. Ask questions, at least up to the point where someone says they don't want to discuss it anymore. i.e., don't pester or seem invasive, but show curiosity about things you don't understand, and ask for more explanation if you don't understand.

I dunno, it's a two-way street. Ti folks have had to learn to navigate the rest of the world but we have our own pitfalls as much as anyone else that can take time to figure out -- usually in terms of needing to phrase things in ways that engender conversation rather than shutting it down, learning about productive boundaries, and seeing value / finding acceptance in other values besides raw honest discourse. But basically you want to have the conversation seem like it has a possibility of being meaningful, that you care about the interaction, and that you are not using it as a form of control.
 

Northern Lights

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
20
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
This is solely about INTPs. Don't chase them. They have to notice you first. Then they'll observe you for a long time, interacting randomly but not often. When after awhile, they'll interact with you more frequently but still randomly until they're sure. Once certain they have a decent grasp of you and your personality, it's full court press time, constantly interacting with you.

Unfortunately, throughout this process, they can change their minds at any time, even during the full court press time.

The bolded is particularly what I am having issues with. Having been intensely courted for a while, I responded. It went well for a while. Now I'm being increasingly shut out. I don't understand and it makes me sad!

The sort of people I generally have an easier time opening up to have at least two qualities in common.

1. They’re stable. What I mean by that is I can say what I think/feel and they’re not going to blow up in my face with a negative emotional reaction. They may not agree, but there not super reactive either.

2. They genuinely like me. That’s sounds obvious, but it’s important. If you can drill it in to my thick skull that, yes, you actually enjoy my presence, and no, you’re not just being nice or polite then that goes a long way.

This isn’t an exhaustive list, but it’s a start. Bottom line though, you can’t really get someone to open up to you if for some reason they don’t want to.

This is a really good list, thanks. I do really really like him and I think I've made it sufficiently clear that I want to spend time with him because I enjoy his company, not because of politeness or pity. However, I have trouble with emotional stability, I'll admit. I tend to blow hot and cold and I am intimate and avoidant by turns because I'm not sure how my desire for intimacy will be received and I don't want to drive him away with clinginess. I tend to overcompensate with the avoidance, perhaps.

1) They can't stand most people
2) Be someone they can stand
3) Profit


More seriously, my brother is INTP and I'm generally not a very pushy person to begin with, getting used to him and how he works I find really, you just have to let them (Ti-doms in general) independently take interest in you. They need a lot of time to process if something is true for themselves, but they're a bit blinder when it comes to people. Sometimes they would get stuck in the odd pedantic technicalities of what a friendship actually means in some convoluted nitpicky Ti roller coaster. (Please let them process it. They need it. They'll thank you).

Having mutual interests help because they do a lot of what I call 'mental friendship' than physical ones. For example, my brother would talk tons about movies, and another INTP friend of mine about geography, an ISTP I know loves talking about mechanical parts & fixing things, cars, etc. They put intelligence on a pedestal, generally speaking they'll take your ability to keep up and maintain interest as intelligence and open-mindedness (which they value) but tend to not realize, even to themselves, that it's the quality of friendship that they also love (eg; that you care and can listen) even if you're not necessarily interested in the same subjects. I find this especially true for younger Ti-doms. I get told "I don't know why, I just like your presence." Oh, that little inferior Fe.

Lots of them value that 'intellectual spark' they can get with someone more than mushy proclamations of friendship or time spent together, and more than most others enjoy intellectual candidness. Have them enjoy that and they'll fall into that trapdoor called friendship in no time.

There are lots others I can think of but really mostly applies to the younger ones, since by age 20+ a lot of INTP are well-rounded enough to not be as awkward as they were when younger. Also, once they stick, they really stick with you. Once they trust you, I find (though this is in no way 100% true in general), I find that they tend to independently go to you for more emotional / social matters or if they need help with planning / prioritizing stuff (or whatever you are good at that they can rely on). Just gotta get through the gate I mentioned above first. Be a friend. Don't push them. Let them walk in their own path / pace a la Ji-Pe.

Lots of good points here as well. The "friend who is also a lover" dynamic is very much at play in my specific situation as is the sharing of intellectual interests as a basis for closeness. The main problem at play here is that it's not possible to be intellectually on all the time and I'm worried about what happens if we get tired and lose momentum. I know a lot of the time that is temporary but it also feels like death.

In my experience it just sort of happens and it’s a surprise or it doesn’t happen which isn’t a surprise. But I also have a face that says. Tell me everything deep and dark about yourself right here in this grocery aisle so ymmv.

Ultimately I think it’s mainly about being patient and leaving the door open in an obvious fashion and seeing what happens. I suspect there’s an element of being observed for a long time that I don’t really notice.

Soooo ... just wait. I am so bad at that!

Be honest, especially about yourself to yourself. Hypocrisy and denial are two big turnoffs -- fundamentally dishonest folks cannot be trusted enough to engage. Also, if you seem like you believe a lot of things that aren't true, the information you provide can't be trusted either... so how is there supposed to be a discourse? We'd have to vet everything you say.

Don't create drama or leave Ti folks feeling like you're going to drag them into a morass of emotionalism. The caveat is that if you are fundamentally honest and can admit you create drama, that helps a bit because you're aware of it, so then you can both mediate the impact of that. It reduces the impression that our freedom will be inhibited in some way by you, to either come and go OR to speak our mind without a lot of needless drama. It comes off as dangerous to autonomy, so one stays away.

Be open -- to hearing new ideas but also to talk about deep and/or even personal topics. Everything tends to be rather detached for Ti so we can talk about some things that leave some people feeling uncomfortable. We typically won't push someone to talking about that stuff, but it does leave us with not wanting to approach the boundaries and might lead to some shutdown in communication.

Don't take everything deathly seriously. A lot of stuff in life is both serious and funny due to inherent inconsistencies or weirdness, if you step outside of it. Laughing at something doesn't mean you disrespect it, it just means you can see it from various POVs. Also, don't think a Ti person is disrespecting something by challenging it or laughing about it, sometimes it feels very personal deep inside but also funny and/or it's a way to deal with the seriousness of it.

Try to understand even if you don't. Ask questions, at least up to the point where someone says they don't want to discuss it anymore. i.e., don't pester or seem invasive, but show curiosity about things you don't understand, and ask for more explanation if you don't understand.

I dunno, it's a two-way street. Ti folks have had to learn to navigate the rest of the world but we have our own pitfalls as much as anyone else that can take time to figure out -- usually in terms of needing to phrase things in ways that engender conversation rather than shutting it down, learning about productive boundaries, and seeing value / finding acceptance in other values besides raw honest discourse. But basically you want to have the conversation seem like it has a possibility of being meaningful, that you care about the interaction, and that you are not using it as a form of control.

This is a really, really, really good and helpful post. Some of the qualities you mention are traits I either lack or struggle with, particularly the need not to take everything deathly seriously. I can be sort of superficially light-hearted but more often, I usually take things pretty seriously, perhaps even too seriously, and am liable to be upset when someone laughs at problems instead of recognizing it as a coping strategy. I also struggle with the communication shutdown and wondering whether or not I'm being too invasive.

Thanks for the inputs, y'all.
 

Snow as White

ƃuıǝǝs | seeing
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
471
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The bolded is particularly what I am having issues with. Having been intensely courted for a while, I responded. It went well for a while. Now I'm being increasingly shut out. I don't understand and it makes me sad!



This is a really good list, thanks. I do really really like him and I think I've made it sufficiently clear that I want to spend time with him because I enjoy his company, not because of politeness or pity. However, I have trouble with emotional stability, I'll admit. I tend to blow hot and cold and I am intimate and avoidant by turns because I'm not sure how my desire for intimacy will be received and I don't want to drive him away with clinginess. I tend to overcompensate with the avoidance, perhaps.



Lots of good points here as well. The "friend who is also a lover" dynamic is very much at play in my specific situation as is the sharing of intellectual interests as a basis for closeness. The main problem at play here is that it's not possible to be intellectually on all the time and I'm worried about what happens if we get tired and lose momentum. I know a lot of the time that is temporary but it also feels like death.



Soooo ... just wait. I am so bad at that!



This is a really, really, really good and helpful post. Some of the qualities you mention are traits I either lack or struggle with, particularly the need not to take everything deathly seriously. I can be sort of superficially light-hearted but more often, I usually take things pretty seriously, perhaps even too seriously, and am liable to be upset when someone laughs at problems instead of recognizing it as a coping strategy. I also struggle with the communication shutdown and wondering whether or not I'm being too invasive.

Thanks for the inputs, y'all.

oh yes :) i understand the impatience of waiting very much. this is just what has sort of worked for me after targeting poor Ti-doms with my "let's connect" gaze and seeing them desperately running for dear life.

I can also relate to the running hot and cold about things and people. it's annoying having it happen to me and i imagine it's annoying to the other party as well.

i think maybe what worked for me was learning to relax a little bit and be ok with making the mistakes and just seeing what happens.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
From my experience with both INTPs and ISTPs, consistency in expression and encouragement while giving them space. Then, after awhile, they start poking fun at your personal inconsistencies and you are golden.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
The bolded is particularly what I am having issues with. Having been intensely courted for a while, I responded. It went well for a while. Now I'm being increasingly shut out. I don't understand and it makes me sad!
That's when you back off and they'll either return to you if they needed some personal space or if for some reason, they've judged you negatively, they're gone for good. I'll openly admit that that type of behavior pisses me off when they can't be bothered to give you a heads up about their need for personal space, or why they've judged you poorly and decided to split.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think you have to let go of an expectation or hope to get them to "open up". If they sense that pressure it's less likely they will, but also realize they don't necessarily need or want to open up to people. They prefer to think about interesting ideas and the laid back ones like quirky Ne oriented jokes. I think it's humor that functions as their opening up and intimacy and also deeper intellectual discussions. My first INTP husband/partner of 15 years said he didn't want people to "understand him" and he just didn't bother answering questions when badgered, even mildly. You have to let go of wanting them to do something based on your terms and not theirs. It won't happen - or it might happen briefly once, but you will not change the pattern or dynamic ultimately. You accept them or not as they are.

Short answer: you don't
 

LucieCat

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
665
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
You can't force anyone to open up. The closest thing you can do is assure them that you're there to talk about things and listen if they need someone. They'll come in their own time and own way. The best thing you can really do is present yourself as a supportive individual who cares about another's well-being.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,785
Since I don't see indication that OP intends to forcefully pry a person open against their will or something, I'll add that getting someone to open up is not always a bad thing. For instance, some who are extremely reserved wish they weren't. There is a desire to open up more, yet they don't actually know how to. Those might appreciate that, or at minimum enjoy the company of the person on account of them being someone they can open up so easily with. In fact, I once knew a highly introverted man who was attracted to how easy his now-wife was for him to talk to. He shared with me that it was the very first thing that caught his attention.

You can more than likely get an IxTP to open up in the same way you get any human being to open up. There are methods out there that just work in general, and you can Google them or read a few books about communication for a sense of direction or a place to begin. Based on my own subjective experiences, one thing I can assure you of is that reserved people sometimes do latch onto open peoples' openness. Sometimes that means they open up and share alongside you more if you are open first, and other times...well, they might just end up enjoying the way your openness fills the gaps created by their reservation without willingly offering much participation in return. Overall, that's the key ingredient though: willingness on their part. The participant must be willing if it's going to work anyways. Forcing people open seems rather ineffective in general as far as I can tell. However, someone might be able to incite some willingness from them by encouraging in ways that aren't demanding, or by simply talking about it to them if they are in a committed relationship with you and willing to compromise so that there is more balance in give and take.



I realize that INTPs and ISTPs are never going to be chatty cathys about their feelings
This is a false generalization according to more official MBTI materials. "Feeler" is not even partially defined by whether a person talks about their feelings unless your resources are memes, and possibly 16 Personalities, IDR Labs, or Random YouTube Dude. It's not a part of any of the functions, either, but the Extraversion dichotomy does touch on it to some degree. To elaborate, the Official MBTI has facets in every dichotomy, and one of the facets are "Extroverted vs Contained." A person might be Introverted in 4/5 facets (and therefore overall an introvert), but in that one specific facet they deviate by being Expressive (which is lumped into the Extraversion dichotomy). Expressive people are open about their thoughts, feelings, etc. You can see an overview of all the facets here. I know it's a legit post rather than user written because I saw the same ones on the official MBTI when I took it with a certified practitioner (don't judge me, it was free due to being on a friendship basis).

Tl;dr - Based on all of this though, because IxTPs can indeed be Expressive Facet, they can also therefore be open just as any human being can. It's only considered atypical by MBTI.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,785
Also, a few reasons I think reserved people seem to open up around me...
1) I'm open, direct, and authentic. I share first. I don't really give a shit, I just stretch out and lay it all out there naturally...with some exceptions. They get to do their cautious observing, and when they understand I'm authentic they feel more inclined to come out of their shells.
2) I ask a lot of questions--respectfully. Not in an intrusive way. I'm very cautious not to cross their boundaries. If I'm uncertain of whether it's prying, I directly ask or remind them that they don't need to feel any pressure to answer. If they feel invaded they'll just shut themselves off extra for the most part anyways. Don't force yourself onto them.

Otherwise I'm honestly not good at it. I suck at initiating anything in that way, and it takes a lot of energy out of me to try. That's why I actually prefer conversations with those who are more open usually. (I just don't like feeling as though I am talking to my walls.)
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To be clear based on general posts - I don't think the OP is trying to force anything. I think it is the Ti-doms that can be set in their ways. It isn't the same think as getting a shy, sensitive person to trust and open up. A really strong T may simply have no use for it and not feel a need to appease others to do it. They can be very autonomous and they aren't being mean, but they just don't want to talk about feelings, personal sensitivities, etc. It is boring or displacing for them. It's like trying to get Paul Erdos to talk about pro football or to get an under water welder to talk about antique doll collections.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To be clear based on general posts - I don't think the OP is trying to force anything. I think it is the Ti-doms that can be set in their ways. It isn't the same think as getting a shy, sensitive person to trust and open up. A really strong T may simply have no use for it and not feel a need to appease others to do it. They can be very autonomous and they aren't being mean, but they just don't want to talk about feelings, personal sensitivities, etc. It is boring or displacing for them. It's like trying to get Paul Erdos to talk about pro football or to get an under water welder to talk about antique doll collections.

I would say too, they genuinely may not have or experience feelings in the same way as you in the OP; thus they don't really have anything to share/talk about -- at least in the same way OP may share or experience or hope to hear about. So if 'pushed' to open up about something they're not even thinking about or experiencing, well, it might not go over well (no judgment towards you, OP -- just adding that they may not share or 'open up' simply because they don't have anything to share on that end, or it's simply not on their radar so not even something they're thinking about).

And as everyone else has said..people will be open if it feels natural, it's not being demanded of them, if they feel safe/trust that the ensuing conversation will be mutually beneficial and coming from a place of wanting to understand or know.

I have a Ti dom brother, and my asking him directly 'how he feels' about such and such - if it's tied to his emotional state - is a surefire recipe to getting a 'Meh, I don't know' response. Vs just dropping it, chatting about other stuff, and then he might randomly, voluntarily of his own accord share something a little more tied to how he's feeling. Of course not saying this is the case with all Ti doms - just throwing that out there.
 

cacaia

New member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
275
MBTI Type
NF
Enneagram
954
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Mm...My suggestion would be, like everyone else has said, to not use pressure. I would say talk to this person about things you both relate to. Do this many times. Eventually, tell a story about yourself that relates to what you want the other person to talk about. Do this a few times, and see if they will open up. If they feel comfortable with you, they will eventually open up, but only when they are ready.
 

Abcdenfp

Terpsichore
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,669
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7W8
Lol I asked my ISTP this morning as he ate breakfast and he smiled broadly, " you know all about that don't ya"
heres his self proclaimed list

  1. Be patient
  2. give space when needed
  3. make sure to feed it food if it's hungry
  4. be up for adventure
oddly enough these are accurate .
 
Top